reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Nov 17, 2011 18:34:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I have 4 brothers myself. The real life experience gained from my close relationships with them is priceless. The best part is that you know them so well that it is so easy to distinguish a lie or the truth from them. Granted we had our conflicts but our bond as brothers is a force not to be reckoned with. The more I learn about you the more I see that your educated and reasonable, even though I think we are on the opposite ends of the moderate politics i am sure we are. i am VERY socially liberal. but i am a fiscal conservative. that is why i hate Bush, and anyone like him. they rub me the wrong way in terms of BOTH money and "values". i have a lot of trouble with Paul's social conservatism, but it looks like i might have an alternative this time. Yeah, Paul's social conservatism is more because he is a constitutionalists. He fully believes in implementing the laws/guide lines this country was based on. Personally though his beliefs I think are socially liberal. For instance he believes that all drugs should be legalized, not for the fact that he believes in doing any of them(which he believes doing drugs are bad, being a doctor and all makes sense). He says things like this because he believes in our freedoms and to be able to make our own choices. The downside to this though is that the majority of people nowadays are just not morale enough to make the right or good decisions IMO.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Nov 17, 2011 18:36:36 GMT -5
In regards to your statement of " rage has a way of blurring the senses" 3rd rule: Passion rules reason, For better or for worse. Letting your emotions control your reason may cause trouble for yourself and those around you." did you catch my response to your link? i added it in bold, above. ROFL, ok so much for me being able to read between the lines. I missed it .
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 17, 2011 18:42:33 GMT -5
i gotta go, reason. too much time here today. cu2morrow.....
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 17, 2011 23:16:23 GMT -5
I modified my last statement you should check out that link, it is pretty cool. i printed it out, reason. ty!I was thinking more along the lines of the generations that would now just be able to be employed by you. The 5 to 20 ages, that is just because I think the majority of the parenting has gone to crud. Parenting nowadays= sit you in front of the t.v. so I don't have to deal with you/ get you games to play so it keeps you occupied so I can do what I want. Parenting old days= Do you chores/ go outside and do experience something productive. again, i can only speak for myself. but i think we share certain values, which i will now express. my son is 11 1/2. he has never watched a day of TV in his life- not in our home, anyway. he is surrounded by books, music, and art. he has a yard to play in which opens into an oak forest without fences. he is learning to play cello, guitar, piano, and to sing. he is above grade level in all subjects, and college level in Latin. it was not that hard to do. we just had to care more about him than we did ourselves. the same could be said of anyone. On this point, I'm with you. My son is learning piano, guitar, and Espanol. It does piss me off that I have to pay twice for school, though. I have to pay for a government run school I don't use, and for private school. I should have choice, but the government has a gun to my head.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 17, 2011 23:20:51 GMT -5
I'm very socially liberal. I'm opposed to "gay marriage" because everyone has the right to marry already. Freedom of contract. What proponents of gay marriage want is recognition, and benefits, and special treatment by the government, and so on-- another expansion of government power, and another interest group to throw money at. You're not owed that. And I'd like to see the government mostly out of the institution of marriage and see marriage mostly as a contract issue for the courts, not the legislative or executive branches.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Nov 17, 2011 23:35:10 GMT -5
I'm sure people that don't have kids don't like paying for schools either- too bad, that's the price of educating our young citizens- worth every penny.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Nov 18, 2011 0:27:21 GMT -5
Maybe we should do like some Asian countries. There the parents or family pay for a student to attend school out of their own pockets instead of the school tax system. We might even find out parents would take a bigger interest in how their children are progressing. In China for instance through high school the student start at 7am and go till six and have two or three hours of home work. No playing vidio games or just watching the boob tube. They do have a high drop out rate especially in high school level and go to work in the fields or a factory. I must acknowledge it is a different culture.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 18, 2011 0:45:37 GMT -5
actually YES. but only to offset the self absorption of our son. as an only child it is hard for him to really assimilate empathy and compassion. but he is slowly getting it ------------------------ My son is also an only child, and if anything, he has too much empathy and compassion. He comes home weeping when he sees a hurt animal or a person with disabilities, railing against the unfairness of it all.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Nov 18, 2011 10:32:18 GMT -5
actually YES. but only to offset the self absorption of our son. as an only child it is hard for him to really assimilate empathy and compassion. but he is slowly getting it ------------------------ My son is also an only child, and if anything, he has too much empathy and compassion. He comes home weeping when he sees a hurt animal or a person with disabilities, railing against the unfairness of it all. Dang that is alot, with as many hurt animals(or dead ones on the road) and people with disabilities that I see every day I am surprised that your son gets anything done but cry all day. You might want to find a way to get across to him that life is not fair and never was and never will be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 10:44:21 GMT -5
This article is pretty awful. Liberals are always totally clueless...they say things like "Wait, 53%...you're being played by the 1%!!!!". Totally missing the point.
Liberals somehow think that any money that is returned to rich people/corproations, is a total gift that was stolen from middle class people! They like to conflate paying 2x in taxes and getting 1x back, with just getting 1x back.
Most liberals, specifically OWS types, want to put 1x into the coffer and then get back 3x.
Who is the leach?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Nov 18, 2011 11:44:12 GMT -5
You know, there is some middle ground here. Yes, the economic collapse could have been avoided if existing legislation had been enforced, necessary legislation had not been repealed, and some bad legislation had never been enacted. Bankers will always be stupid and greedy. It is up to government to check them.
On the other hand, nobody put a gun to people's heads and forced them to buy houses they couldn't afford. Nobody forces people to not bother to get in demand skills and launch careers before breeding. Nobody forces people to live above their means and not bother to plan for misfortune. Nobody forces you to not educate yourself on personal finance. The stupid, greedy bankers wouldn't have been able to engineer the mortgage fiasco if the a large segment of the general public had not been equally stupid and greedy. There is such a thing as personal responsibility here.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 18, 2011 12:26:46 GMT -5
Maybe we should do like some Asian countries. There the parents or family pay for a student to attend school out of their own pockets instead of the school tax system. We might even find out parents would take a bigger interest in how their children are progressing. In China for instance through high school the student start at 7am and go till six and have two or three hours of home work. No playing vidio games or just watching the boob tube. They do have a high drop out rate especially in high school level and go to work in the fields or a factory. I must acknowledge it is a different culture. Why don't we leave it up to the parents? I know this is a radical concept, but why don't we make parents responsible for their kids education? The caveat is that the government and teacher's unions would have to give up the money- and compete for it instead of just take it at gunpoint.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 18, 2011 12:30:57 GMT -5
This article is pretty awful. Liberals are always totally clueless...they say things like "Wait, 53%...you're being played by the 1%!!!!". Totally missing the point. Liberals somehow think that any money that is returned to rich people/corproations, is a total gift that was stolen from middle class people! They like to conflate paying 2x in taxes and getting 1x back, with just getting 1x back. Most liberals, specifically OWS types, want to put 1x into the coffer and then get back 3x. Who is the leach? Here's a comprehensive list of 2,179 federal domestic assistance programs: www.cfda.gov/www.cfda.gov/downloads/CFDA_2011.pdfAnd that doesn't include state, county, and local stuff. All paid for by the 53%.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 12:46:10 GMT -5
One contributor, a Marine veteran, writes: “I don’t blame Wall Street because it doesn’t matter what Wall Street or anyone else does. I am responsible for my own destiny. I will succeed or fail because of me and me ALONE.”
Boy now there's a value that's gone out of favor. It's not my fault, it's the government's job have replaced it. We as a country & a people are the lesser because of it.
Oh & there will always be some "pigs" that are more equal than others. It doesn't matter if they are the managers that run companies or the leaders than run countries & that's true even in communist countries. I think to many people spend way to much time lusting after what others have & blaming them for their lot in life rather than doing their best to improve their lot. And of course the weak minded will fall for Obama's class warfare gambit to drift into socialism & not realize that they are being used. You can bet your life that if Obama were magically successful over night he would be one of the more equal pigs (as would the leaders of the democratic party).
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2011 13:04:00 GMT -5
again, i can only speak for myself. but i think we share certain values, which i will now express. my son is 11 1/2. he has never watched a day of TV in his life- not in our home, anyway. he is surrounded by books, music, and art. he has a yard to play in which opens into an oak forest without fences. he is learning to play cello, guitar, piano, and to sing. he is above grade level in all subjects, and college level in Latin. it was not that hard to do. we just had to care more about him than we did ourselves. the same could be said of anyone. On this point, I'm with you. My son is learning piano, guitar, and Espanol. It does piss me off that I have to pay twice for school, though. I have to pay for a government run school I don't use, and for private school. I should have choice, but the government has a gun to my head. my son was in public school until last year. but, for reasons that are far too much for me to spell out right now, we had to move him to a Montessori private school this year. he is doing much better there. for me, it is nice to know that we could send him SOMEWHERE if i could not afford the montessori. but to each their own, i guess.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Nov 18, 2011 13:04:25 GMT -5
i only interact with about (14) folks, and 1/3 of them are owners. All 4.67 of them are owners?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2011 13:08:42 GMT -5
This article is pretty awful. Liberals are always totally clueless...they say things like "Wait, 53%...you're being played by the 1%!!!!". Totally missing the point. i don't think this guy misses the point at all. he knows what the situation is. he just doesn't like the idea that people would carry the water for those that would drown them. his language is inflammatory, his examples are exaggerated. but that is actually a really effective rhetorical method. relying on more mundane examples makes things more confusing, imo. this piece is written very much in the style of a Coulter or Limbaugh. if the right has no objection to that style and approach, they can hardly condemn this. myself? i find both entertaining. but again, if you have a specific criticism, i would love to hear it dave. don't stoop to the same generalizations that the author does.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2011 13:09:07 GMT -5
i only interact with about (14) folks, and 1/3 of them are owners. All 4.67 of them are owners? round off error.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2011 13:10:19 GMT -5
Most liberals, specifically OWS types, want to put 1x into the coffer and then get back 3x. i think you are shooting from the hip, here. i don't think most of the OWS crowd wants any more from the guvmnt than you do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 13:19:04 GMT -5
I'm sure people that don't have kids don't like paying for schools either- too bad, that's the price of educating our young citizens- worth every penny. Interesting statement saying it's "too bad" when someone else thinks something is unfair. Maybe the multi-millionaire passing you in his (her) chauffeured limousine feels the same way about your relatively insignificant problems.
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skweet
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Post by skweet on Nov 18, 2011 14:23:54 GMT -5
I think that the major separation between the 53% and the 47% can be traced back to the values that were learned in early life. There is a group that thinks that the world should value, their individual pursuits in enjoying art, reading, music, historical or political learning, the outdoors etc, and then their are people that think that they should figure out what the world values, and individually pursue those skills. It is all well and good that a parent makes a value choice between TV and piano lessons for their children, but the reality is neither provides much value to the world, and therefore does not help guide the child into the 53%. The OWS movement is full of well-educated and well-rounded individuals with parents that encouraged them to pursue romantic interests. They demand that the world value their interests. What they lack are people that were encouraged to pursue interests that the world actually values, and of which the world is willing to compensate. The kid that could give a rats backside about music or art, but understands that the more lawns he mows the better his lifestyle will be, is the kid most likely to succeed. We may not like capitalism, but understanding it is the most important skill for a kid to learn.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Nov 18, 2011 14:36:12 GMT -5
We may not like capitalism, but understanding it is the most important skill for a kid to learn. Well said. Even the capitalism hating Michael Moore has learned it and uses it to his advantage.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Nov 18, 2011 16:13:34 GMT -5
You know, there is some middle ground here. Yes, the economic collapse could have been avoided if existing legislation had been enforced, necessary legislation had not been repealed, and some bad legislation had never been enacted. Bankers will always be stupid and greedy. It is up to government to check them. On the other hand, nobody put a gun to people's heads and forced them to buy houses they couldn't afford. Nobody forces people to not bother to get in demand skills and launch careers before breeding. Nobody forces people to live above their means and not bother to plan for misfortune. Nobody forces you to not educate yourself on personal finance. The stupid, greedy bankers wouldn't have been able to engineer the mortgage fiasco if the a large segment of the general public had not been equally stupid and greedy. There is such a thing as personal responsibility here. Really? It is up to the government to check them? I wonder if you were being sarcastic, because the last time I checked the government is just as greedy and they pass laws from lobbying to promote the bad behavior. There is a long list of bank ex-employees and consultants that run the government.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Nov 18, 2011 16:28:46 GMT -5
60% of the annual budget is eaten up by SS, Medicare and Welfare.
How do we, as a country, fix that problem?
Taxing the rich alone will not help and is simply partisan politics. Raising taxes on corporations is an indirect tax on consumers.
I'd prefer my taxes not to be indirect. I like to be fucked from the front, not the back.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Nov 18, 2011 16:45:36 GMT -5
60% of the annual budget is eaten up by SS, Medicare and Welfare. How do we, as a country, fix that problem? Taxing the rich alone will not help and is simply partisan politics. Raising taxes on corporations is an indirect tax on consumers. I'd prefer my taxes not to be indirect. I like to be fucked from the front, not the back. As a country of people we can't fix the problem. Most of the people are to apathetic even to fathom the multiple behind the scenes problems that are brewing and most don't want to understand. We will solve the issues with either complete chaos and a restart for human civilization or by the forced awareness that people will get from the loss of their materialistic ways/items(reality of needing to live within one's means).
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Nov 18, 2011 17:30:33 GMT -5
You know, there is some middle ground here. Yes, the economic collapse could have been avoided if existing legislation had been enforced, necessary legislation had not been repealed, and some bad legislation had never been enacted. Bankers will always be stupid and greedy. It is up to government to check them. On the other hand, nobody put a gun to people's heads and forced them to buy houses they couldn't afford. Nobody forces people to not bother to get in demand skills and launch careers before breeding. Nobody forces people to live above their means and not bother to plan for misfortune. Nobody forces you to not educate yourself on personal finance. The stupid, greedy bankers wouldn't have been able to engineer the mortgage fiasco if the a large segment of the general public had not been equally stupid and greedy. There is such a thing as personal responsibility here. Really? It is up to the government to check them? I wonder if you were being sarcastic, because the last time I checked the government is just as greedy and they pass laws from lobbying to promote the bad behavior. There is a long list of bank ex-employees and consultants that run the government. Yes, it has always been the government's role to check greedy businessmen, or at the very least, not bail them out when they fall on their faces. The fact that they haven't been doing their jobs lately is a legitimate gripe. What the OWS crowd don't seem to realise is that the economic collapse originated in Washington and they should be protesting against Washington, not Wall Street.
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Nov 19, 2011 21:19:50 GMT -5
You might want to find a way to get across to him that life is not fair and never was and never will be. Weltz, of course you will teach this to your child, as any responsible parent must do. And if you would be so kind, could you come down and explain this simple concept to our president? He's always piping off about how things are not fair. If you were to do this, it may change the course of American history. Thanks!!
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Nov 19, 2011 23:11:03 GMT -5
"Weltz, of course you will teach this to your child, as any responsible parent must do. And if you would be so kind, could you come down and explain this simple concept to our president? He's always piping off about how things are not fair. If you were to do this, it may change the course of American history. Thanks!! "
Of course life is not fair but you also teach your kids to treat people fairly not cheat. Nothing wrong with conducting affairs to encourage fairness and work against injustice. Or should we all roll over and let our older sibling beat the crap out of us and take our toys since they are bigger and life is not fair?
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Nov 19, 2011 23:15:25 GMT -5
Or should we all roll over and let our older sibling beat the crap out of us and take our toys since they are bigger and life is not fair?
Should we pay some uneducated oaf the same as a skilled Chef, just to be fair?
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Nov 19, 2011 23:21:39 GMT -5
"Should we pay some uneducated oaf the same as a skilled Chef, just to be fair? "
Maybe when I say fair you think I am saying socialism or you don't know what fair means. Either way yes that is exactly what I was thinking skilled chefs and uneducated oafs is the exact picture I had in my mind.
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