Uninsured In America- by choice

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Rent: $475 plus utilities- $530 per month

Average monthly income: $2,300 and it's not taxed

Sometimes- it varys- monthly savings contribution: almost $1,000 a month

So, why don't you have health insurance...?

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Awesome video.

Karma baby!!!

[Tennesseer]

While I did not watch the whole video, the folks from what I did see were in their late 20s. When I was their age I had health insurance through my employer but I never had a need to use it. I would imagine the young adults in the video are the same way.

An unexpected medical disaster could occur but most young adults still see themselves as immortal.




www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/us/young-adults-make-gains-in-health-insurance-coverage.html

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Nov 12, 2011 19:04:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

While I did not watch the whole video, the folks from what I did see were in their late 20s. When I was their age I had health insurance through my employer but I never had a need to use it. I would imagine the young adults in the video are the same way.



www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/us/young-adults-make-gains-in-health-insurance-coverage.html

I had three kids by the time I was 30. Health insurance was used...used alot.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 12, 2011 19:06:01 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

Nov 12, 2011 19:04:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

While I did not watch the whole video, the folks from what I did see were in their late 20s. When I was their age I had health insurance through my employer but I never had a need to use it. I would imagine the young adults in the video are the same way.



www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/us/young-adults-make-gains-in-health-insurance-coverage.html

I had three kids by the time I was 30. Health insurance was used...used alot.

Of course you did. But I was not talking about children-I was talking about young adults in their 20s. There is a difference.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 12, 2011 19:11:52 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Young adults feel they will not ever become ill, and frankly the odds they are right are not that bad in the 20s.

Correct.

[mmhmm]

Nov 12, 2011 19:37:39 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Another problem is that, depending on where they live, individual health insurance can easily cost 1K per month, and that is for a healthy adult with no preconditions, thereby wiping out the entire 1K that they save per month. And, by the way, such health insurance doesn't pay from the first dollar either. There are deductibles.

Also where does she live that her income is untaxed? In NYC, there would be taxes at three levels for that income in a single, working individual and several hundred would go in taxes.

I agree, toughtimes. Most young folks don't use the insurance they have, if they have it. Unless they have some known, chronic medical condition, they just don't see a need for it. I can understand that, and why they'd put more importance on building an emergency fund and starting to save for a home, or some other large purchase.

[formerexpat]

Upwards of 25% of the often quoted 47 million of uninsured are by choice. Another 25% are illegal and another 25% are eligible for current government programs available to them. All told, there are maybe 10-12 million people that we really do need to find a way to get insured. 3% of the population is not a good reason to fuck the whole thing up. Common sense solutions are necessary, not common liberal ideological solutions.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Nov 12, 2011 19:11:52 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Young adults feel they will not ever become ill, and frankly the odds they are right are not that bad in the 20s.

They also apparently feel someone else should pay. That's what I don't get?

[fairlycrazy23]

Nov 12, 2011 19:46:35 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Upwards of 25% of the often quoted 47 million of uninsured are by choice. Another 25% are illegal and another 25% are eligible for current government programs available to them. All told, there are maybe 10-12 million people that we really do need to find a way to get insured. 3% of the population is not a good reason to fuck the whole thing up. Common sense solutions are necessary, not common liberal ideological solutions.

This is why I think they should have just lowered the bar for current programs, while at the same time work on the actual cost of medical care.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Nov 12, 2011 20:09:45 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

First off, I do believe that many 20 somethings simply feel immortal. That was me until an older friend wised me up.

However, this video is total bullocks. First, the budget quoted is ridiculous. This allegedly "untaxed" person pays a couple a hundred in FICA alone given a tax of a little over 7% levied on the first dollar. Additionally, there are federal and state taxes at that level, and possibly city as well, not to mention sales taxes on everything she buys.

She is supposedly saving 12K a year out of her minute income. Apparently she also doesn't buy food and clothing, nor does she ever ride a bus, a train, a plane or an automobile. She also doesn't cut her hair, groom her nails or have her teeth filled.



So far as the bills she is supposedly walking away from, judgements can follow you for 30 years. Additionally, if your bills are paid for through medicaid, you can be made to repay the money if you get a judgement from an automobile accident. It happened to a friend of mine. They will also go after any money you get from bequests, lottery winnings, windfalls, gifts, etc.

Emergency room treatment is terrible. WITH insurance, I have had several times lay on a gurney in a hall waiting for a hospital bed. In one instance, I had a 12-hour wait in that hall completely unmedicated even though I would undergo emergency surgery before 48 hours had passed. I would also receive last rites of the Catholic Church just in case.

Life without medical insurance is a big game of Russian Roulette. Right now, for the first time since my 20's I am without insurance as I cannot handle 1K or more a month out of an unemployment insurance coverage of 200 week plus miscellaneous jobs here and there. Many are in this boat. I also have too much savings for medicaid too.

I presume she meant after tax.

Anyway, you pay a lot more than $1K a month now unless you think you employer has magic money from the sky and they pay you insurance and it has no bearing on your take home pay.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Nov 12, 2011 19:46:35 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Upwards of 25% of the often quoted 47 million of uninsured are by choice. Another 25% are illegal and another 25% are eligible for current government programs available to them. All told, there are maybe 10-12 million people that we really do need to find a way to get insured. 3% of the population is not a good reason to fuck the whole thing up. Common sense solutions are necessary, not common liberal ideological solutions.

Precisely. The biggest problem is already government. When the big government prescription fails, the liberal solution is always to up the dose.

[EVT1]

He makes a good argument for single payer.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 12, 2011 21:15:09 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

He makes a good argument for single payer.

there are endless good arguments for single payer. the best among them are the case studies of how it impacts the cost of healthcare.

[formerexpat]

the best among them are the case studies of how it impacts the cost of healthcare.

Rationing, denial of the most advanced techniques and other delays to keep costs artificially low is not a good healthcare model.

Healthcare inflation is higher in European countries and in Medicare than it is in the private healthcare industry of the US...even after considering the additional burden pushed to the private market.

Let's undo the devastating government interferences in our healthcare system from the past 50 years [Medicare, healthcare through employer, HMO, Obamacare] and let the free market come up with a better solution.

[EVT1]

Nov 12, 2011 21:43:48 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Let's undo the devastating government interferences in our healthcare system from the past 50 years [Medicare, healthcare through employer, HMO, Obamacare] and let the free market come up with a better solution.

There is no free market solution for health care- at least not for a system where the goal is to provide affordable access for all citizens. Of course, that is not the goal of the republicans.

[formerexpat]

There is no free market solution for health care- at least not for a system where the goal is to provide affordable access for all citizens. Of course, that is not the goal of the republicans.

You still don't even understand the health insurance business model. You sure aren't qualified to opine on it.

Learn to walk before you run.

[EVT1]

Nov 12, 2011 22:29:37 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

You still don't even understand the health insurance business model. You sure aren't qualified to opine on it.
Learn to walk before you run.

I don't have to understand the intricacies of how they shaft their customers to opine. All I need to know is that they are unnecessary and need to be shut down. They do not provide health care and only serve to siphon off money that could have been used for it.

[formerexpat]

How can you find a video where every number is obviously faked to be at all convincing?

Actually, when you look at the census information on the 45/47m uninsured, it gives you this information by various demographics. We discussed this many times on the old boards.

I don't have to understand the intricacies of how they shaft their customers to opine. All I need to know is that they are unnecessary and need to be shut down. They do not provide health care and only serve to siphon off money that could have been used for it.

When a company takes $1 in premiums and pays $1 in claims & operating expenses, how do they siphon from the customers? You don't even understand at a high level how the business works. Get the basics down first before another unintelligible comment. There are improvements to the system as a whole but to think the government will do it better is just stupid talk. Medicare inflation has increased much higher than private sector the past 30 years and I've seen very little that the government does better than the private sector in my lifetime.

[SweetVirginia]

pauly, you're such a dittohead. Sorry mods.

[EVT1]

Nov 12, 2011 23:22:21 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

When a company takes $1 in premiums and pays $1 in claims & operating expenses, how do they siphon from the customers? You don't even understand at a high level how the business works. Get the basics down first before another unintelligible comment. There are improvements to the system as a whole but to think the government will do it better is just stupid talk. Medicare inflation has increased much higher than private sector the past 30 years and I've seen very little that the government does better than the private sector in my lifetime.

The key being claims AND operating expenses. Why do you think the law is requiring a medical loss ratio? And one that is still not even close to what Medicare runs?

Every dollar in profit they make is wasted, every dollar of bloated executive compensation is wasted, in fact their very existence is a waste of money.

We will get to single payer one way or another so enjoy the insurance companies while you can. It's about time we catch up with the rest of the world and quit shitting away cash into these worthless pits.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 12, 2011 21:43:48 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

the best among them are the case studies of how it impacts the cost of healthcare.

Rationing, denial of the most advanced techniques and other delays to keep costs artificially low is not a good healthcare model.

Healthcare inflation is higher in European countries and in Medicare than it is in the private healthcare industry of the US...even after considering the additional burden pushed to the private market.

Let's undo the devastating government interferences in our healthcare system from the past 50 years [Medicare, healthcare through employer, HMO, Obamacare] and let the free market come up with a better solution.

the free market has already had it's day, and it came up with a system that has marvelous delivery, but terrible pricing and health outcomes.

sorry, but i will take the French model any day. it is so vastly superior to ours that it is really not even amusing to hear anyone deny it.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 12, 2011 22:29:37 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

There is no free market solution for health care- at least not for a system where the goal is to provide affordable access for all citizens. Of course, that is not the goal of the republicans.

You still don't even understand the health insurance business model. You sure aren't qualified to opine on it.

Learn to walk before you run.

what's so complicated about it? with a private system, you have your carrier working against you for good health outcomes. that is an absolute guarantee. what is less certain is what the cost of doing that is, but it is clearly greater than zero.

why on earth anyone would celebrate and encourage a system where you pay someone to work against your health is beyond me.

[ugonow]

They also apparently feel someone else should pay. That's what I don't get?

But paul,not everyone agrees with you that mandatory insurance is a good idea... Insurance companies actually need these people in their pools. That is how insurance works. The healthy subisidize the ill.If republicans seniors on them, that huge increase in exposure will be made up for somewhere, and it won't be the bottomline.Conservatives have been saying they operate on a measley three percent margin as it is....

[deziloooooo]

Nov 12, 2011 19:11:52 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Young adults feel they will not ever become ill, and frankly the odds they are right are not that bad in the 20s.

what about accidents happening...automobile, skiing, physical, playing sports..and such...and yes there are illnesses too...

Treatment with or with out insurence coverage different...you betcha..

[ugonow]

Almost no one at any age buys disability insurance. I have it because I bought it early so I pay less than $500/year for my coverage, but people without health insurance probably won't buy LTD.

LTD is not the cure all answer you might think it is. If you look at your policy real close, chances are, somewhere in fine print it says you will be forced to file for SS benefits, and the amount they calculate you can get will be deducted from your check. They will start deducting that amount from your check within the first few months, whether you apply or not.

[ugonow]

At some pretty stiff prices....

[formerexpat]

It primarily depends on when you bought. My LTD policy was bought with that rider over 25 years ago as a noncancellable, guaranteed renewable policy. I shudder to think what it costs now.

Depends. I suspect you were about 30 when you bought it? If a 30 year old purchased the policy today, then the rates would be lower, and likely much lower because the rate of disability has decreased significantly in the past 25 years. However, if a 55 year old were to try to buy that same policy now, it would likely be much higher because the probability of a person getting disabled in their 50's is higher than when they're in their 30's.

Insurance is not rocket science at all. Take the total cost to insure and divide by the number of policyholders. That's your premium. The insurance company will make their money on the investments they make with those monies between premium payment and claim payment.

Health insurance can cost over 1K/MONTH.

It can also cost under a couple hundred a month. I've shared many sites with you in the past for NY citizens for various policies. Life is about choices. Everyone has to make them and should live with the consequences of their choices.

A few changes by our government [mainly untangling some of their perverted policies], and we'd have a much better system.

[vandalshandle]

Nov 12, 2011 21:06:00 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Nov 12, 2011 19:46:35 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Upwards of 25% of the often quoted 47 million of uninsured are by choice. Another 25% are illegal and another 25% are eligible for current government programs available to them. All told, there are maybe 10-12 million people that we really do need to find a way to get insured. 3% of the population is not a good reason to fuck the whole thing up. Common sense solutions are necessary, not common liberal ideological solutions.

Precisely. The biggest problem is already government. When the big government prescription fails, the liberal solution is always to up the dose.

Flat out wrong. I spent my 50 year career in the health insurance business as Director of Underwriting, among other thing. We intentionally wrote the underwriting manuals to decline the 20% of applicants that would cost us the most. Every underwriting manual, for example, excludes every pregnant woman. Our rates were calculated to cover the morbidity of the healthiest 80% of the population, along with our taxes, commissions, administration expenses, and profit (which was never more than a 5% load, usually much less.)

[vandalshandle]

Nov 13, 2011 13:46:12 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Do tell Vandal. Do YOU know how I can find the mythical $200/month health insurance policy in NY?

I don't have to look. There is no $200 health insurance policy anywhere, with the possible exception of a "Catastrophic Medical policy" which would have a deductible of around $5,000.

You should be aware, however, that New York has some very quirky health insurance laws, not the least of which is one that requires any insurer doing business in New York, must follow new York Laws in every other state. As a result of this law, very few health insurance companies that are located outside of the state of New York do business there (except under a separate legal corporation) Consequently, in my whole career,I have never worked for a company that did business in New York.