premium for working downtown

[The Captain]

I've been contacted by a recruiter for a job and already have had the first interview. The company is very interested and has already scheduled a second interview.

The position would be an initial step up with a very likely additional promotion in 6 months. However the company is downtown which would take my commute from 70-80 minutes a day to over three hours a day (2+ train time). SO is supportive of whatever decision I make.

Work from home is not formally available but boss to be promises a lot of flexibility.

Question is, from a percentage view - how much of a premium should I tack on for going downtown ?(have to add it is a great opportunity but the commute could be better).

This is an executive level position and my family is all blue collar so I don't have too many sources to bounce questions of this nature of off. To be honest, never even thought I could make it this far (America is great - if you can't succeed here than you can't succeed anywhere!)

You feedback and guidance is appreciated.

[Cookies Galore]

I work in Philadelphia, though I only live 14 miles from my office so my train ride is only 35 minutes. I do know that it is not rare for someone to live around here (SE PA) and commute to NYC via Amtrak. Now that I think of it, one of my coworkers commutes from Harrisburg to Philly (1.5 hours one way) via Amtrak and we had someone who commuted from Baltimore for a while (also by Amtrak).
My first question would be regarding commuter benefits. Where I am now, they give us TransitCheks, which are essentially public transit vouchers. I get $120 a month, so it only costs me $35 a month to get to work as opposed to $155. A previous employer offered the opportunity to buy rail passes or monthly parking with pre-tax dollars.
Philadelphia has a 3.5% wage tax, so I make it a rule to ask for money if working in the city than I would if I were working somewhere in the suburbs.

[Deleted]

For me, the premium would have to be so high that I could move closer. 3 hours a day is just crazy to me. If I was unemployed, that would be one thing. If I was looking to trade up, then my first comment stands.

[Sum Dum Gai]

For me, the premium would have to be so high that I could move closer. 3 hours a day is just crazy to me. If I was unemployed, that would be one thing. If I was looking to trade up, then my first comment stands.

Agreed. I commute 45 minutes each way, and that's about my limit. I couldn't imagine doubling it.

[Deleted]

At a minimum you should make sure you are getting paid for the commute time.

In reality, it won't work. 3 hour commute will harm your work performance or kill any balance of life with your family. What about days when the commute has a hiccup (i.e. traffic accident, sick kid, doctor appointment, snow storm, you have a cold and want that extra hour sleep).

If telecommuting is not formally available/acceptable, then they are not that flexible. Even if your new manager makes exceptions for you, the promotion will never occur as you have to impress others, not just 1 boss.

Just several realities to keep in mind. Not knowing exactly the type of work or culture of the company makes it hard to really know.

[weltschmerz]

Question is, from a percentage view - how much of a premium should I tack on for going downtown ?(have to add it is a great opportunity but the commute could be better)
---------------------
Premium? For going downtown? I don't get it.
I used to get a hefty premium for working in acute psychiatry, but that's because it was dangerous and I worked with the criminally insane. The potential for getting hurt was great.
You want a premium for getting to work?

[midjd]

Can you move closer? Is there work you can do on the train?

I'm in the exception in that I really don't mind a long commute - but 3 hours a day is a bit much. I did it for about a year and a half and it wasn't something I could keep up long-term. My current commute is 1 hour each way and that's about my limit. DH, who has less of a driving tolerance, commuted 1 hour each way to work 12-hour shifts and it really harmed his physical/mental health.

If this is a temporary thing to move up, or if you think you can relocate, I'd say take it - otherwise, really think about what it will do to your personal life to be gone 8+ hours a day working and 3+ traveling.

[Deleted]

My max is an hour each way, so 2 hours round trip. 3 hrs? Can you move closer?

How much of an increase in pay would it be? Depending on commuting costs, I would say at least 30-50% increase in pay from my old job.

[Ava]

Can you rent a cheap hotel room, or a room in someone's house during the week? Then you'll be home for the weekend. That could be a solution, unless you have small children at home.

[cubefarmer]

The impact of a long commute is best experienced first hand. It's hard to put into words and it's hard to believe what others tell you. So I say take the job and answer this question on your own. In the future you may not even apply for jobs that would involve long commutes.

[The Captain]

Comments appreciated so far. A few more facts:

I live in a major metro area. Did the downtown commute before for 5+ years before children. Have always lived in the burbs as city living is very expensive and no place for kids. Right now the SO's job is 5 minutes from our home, our church, my kids school etc. so I don't see us moving as that situation suites us pretty well. Plus, if things go to plan, house will be paid for in about 8-9 more years. This is part of a longer-term plan for me to retire before 60 if possible.

I am the primary wage earner and already get home past 8pm most nights (excessive OT at current job is one reason why I'm considering taking this position). The new job boss assures me people leave a majority of the time no later than 5 since they are tied to a train schedule which will actually get me home before 7pm (my day will just start earlier at 5am for a 6:10 train vs. 6:15 getting up for a drive to office my 8. Based on my previous downtown experience this is consistent with what I remember.

Driving is a nightmare (wayyy too much traffic) and it's either drive, or take the train. Even if I did drive, parking is $30+ a day and that plus the wear and tear on my nerves driving is not worth it.

I threw out a pay increase of 20% to change jobs before I knew the job was downtown and the recruiter didn't blink. On the one hand I don't want to appear greedy, but on the other hand want to negotiate a package that reflects my value. Again, the problem is I don't really know what the position is valued at (let's say the move would be from a director level to a VP level). Pay is only part of the package but, unlike signing bonuses and options, will have the biggest impact on my long-term compensation so I really want to get it right.

The comments on the impact on personal life are well noted, however, other than getting up earlier this should actually get me home sooner most nights!

[bring in the new year]

Nov 6, 2011 20:03:06 GMT -5 @logicnow said:

At a minimum you should make sure you are getting paid for the commute time.

In reality, it won't work. 3 hour commute will harm your work performance or kill any balance of life with your family. What about days when the commute has a hiccup (i.e. traffic accident, sick kid, doctor appointment, snow storm, you have a cold and want that extra hour sleep).

If telecommuting is not formally available/acceptable, then they are not that flexible. Even if your new manager makes exceptions for you, the promotion will never occur as you have to impress others, not just 1 boss.

Just several realities to keep in mind. Not knowing exactly the type of work or culture of the company makes it hard to really know.

You're not going to get paid for the commute time. You can put it into your premium if you like but don't ever suggest that to your employer.

Or possible employer.

Because if I understand you, you have the possibility of a great job, you're already commuting over an hour a day and there's 9% unemployment in this country.

If you want the job, take the job. You may want to move closer to the job in a year or so. And you should be able to get some kind of public transportation benefit.

But putting up your salary needs because they need to offer you a premium to take this job sounds crazy to me. They've scheduled a second interview, they didn't search you out and beg you to come work for them. Take it or don't take it, but really be real about what you're turning down.

Three hours is a lot. Usually you can cut that number down by traveling on a slightly off schedule. I know a lot of people who get into the office early and then leave by 3pm. This actually gave them more time with their families.

But unless you've got three other great interviews around the corner, I think you're crazy.

[Phoenix84]

I have a low commuting tolerance. It's unusual since I don't mind long roadtrips and if I'm going somewhere, I don't mind driving 12 hours, but driving more than 30 minutes one way every day for work is about my limit. I consider commuting work on top of work, so I live as close as I can to work. A 3 hour a day commute is within the relm of relocation for me.

[cronewitch]

Having them already ask your salary requirement might mean you shouldn't adjust it. The recruiter asked you but salary is only one part of the compensation package.

Decide what the job is worth to you based on salary, hours, medical insurance, retirement, flexibility, career advancement, vacations, sick policy, bonuses etc.

I would try to get a 10 hour day 4 days a week asking for Wednesday off. Ten hours helps you miss the worst of the commute so might only take an extra hour to work two extra. This saves you one day commute and lunch so maybe 4 hours of your time a week.

I worked that schedule the summer of 79 and it was fantastic like working a two day work week. The employer hated it since everyone got a different day off he was always looking for someone who wasn't there. My nephew is working 3 days a week 13 hours a day so gets 4 day weekends and can work at home some days so the best schedule for him.

[Bluerobin]

How much sleep do you need? 4 hours commuting, and 12 hour days, are a bit much. If you can't move closer to town, look for another job.

[zibazinski]

Can you work on the train? Paperwork, catch up with friends/family/ or even read so that is not wasted time? Actually I used to take the bus downtown when I worked downtown and I loved it. In the AM I am a grouch and this gave me some "ungrouch" time and at night it helped me "unwind" so that I wasn't hit with a litany of things to do the second I walked in the door.
I would take it but negotiate like you are but as others have said, leave out the commute time. Not their issue.

[Deleted]

A lot of trains now have WIFI available so if you have a laptop you can use the train commute time as working time.

Premium on salary? Just figure out what salary you want to do this job & ask for it. Does it all need rationale behind it? What is market salary for the position you are taking and what level of experience do you have towards it? That is the band you need to work within. Glassdoor seems to have relatively accurate self reporting on salaries.

And future promises of mobility - are just words. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't, don't factor that in at all.

[The J]

In reality, it won't work. 3 hour commute will harm your work performance or kill any balance of life with your family.

My total commute time is just under 3 hours a day, including ~1.5 hours on the train. It's definitely doable (and not all that horrible when you have a lot of time on a commuter train).

I threw out a pay increase of 20% to change jobs before I knew the job was downtown and the recruiter didn't blink. On the one hand I don't want to appear greedy, but on the other hand want to negotiate a package that reflects my value. Again, the problem is I don't really know what the position is valued at (let's say the move would be from a director level to a VP level). Pay is only part of the package but, unlike signing bonuses and options, will have the biggest impact on my long-term compensation so I really want to get it right.

The recruiter should be able to give you some insight. Their compensation is often tied to the amount of your salary, so they should have a vested interest in helping you maximize it.

But putting up your salary needs because they need to offer you a premium to take this job sounds crazy to me. They've scheduled a second interview, they didn't search you out and beg you to come work for them. Take it or don't take it, but really be real about what you're turning down.

Take what you can get? I wholeheartedly disagree. Things like the length of the commute are factors in what makes a salary offer reasonable. Sure, if you take a job, then move farther away, you can't go back to your employer and say "now I live farther away, so you need to pay me more", but if I'm looking to change jobs and going from job A to job B significantly increases my commute, I would expect job B to come with a significant increase in pay.

[Tiny]

I've worked with people who have a long commute - 30 minute drive to the train and then 60-70 minutes on the train and then 10 - 15 minute walk to the office. Some of them have done this for years - they like living out in the boonies.

One thing they all have in common:
they NEVER work OT (in the office) - if they need to leave at 10 to 5 to catch a train - they do - no matter WHAT. This means they take time management very seriously.
When the weather is bad (this happens a couple work days out of the year) they do not come in to work. If there's a slow down with the train that has been announced - they may or may not come to work. If there's any sort of train issue during the day - they will leave early or whatever to make sure they get home.

These aren't bad things - management works with them and they get their job done.

The other thing they all have in common is that they do some work on the train (via their company provide laptop or blackberry or phone). They also read or watch movies/tv for personal entertainment during the hour + ride.

The people with long commutes havent' really been a work issue.
I personally have no idea why anyone would want to spend 3 or more hours a day on their 'commute'. It's sounds like a hellish existence to me.

[midjd]

The OP refers to a 3-hour daily commute, not one-way. Current commute is 90 minutes daily.

[The J]

Your idea of a "long commute" is half what he is discussing, an hour and a half vs. three hours one way. Your hour and a half commute was my normal commute for years and I am a middle-aged lady with bad legs. I often spent that hour and a half being shoved around on subway trains while standing. I would never consider a 3-hour one way commute. Managers customarily have to work overtime too.

No. The OP refers to a 3 hour per day commute. And commuter trains are not like the subway. And I have to work "overtime" regularly well. It's just not considered overtime because it's called "being at work until your shit's done".

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"A few more facts...":::...

Stuff like this needs to be in the OP, as we've had the "job time vs. job money" debate with all sets of variables.

The fact that this new job could see you home earlier than normal, and that the culture is one that accepts people having to leave based on commute schedule is a BIG deal. It seems that you would be a good fit.

The people I know who commute those hours end up taking the "commuter nap". You get a few extra Zs on the train if you can. Or you catch up on a lot of reading or movies.

I agree that the recruiter should know enough to help you negotiate a fair salary. I also sympathize with you on the ambiguous nature of the description.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"That is when I did all my studying in high school, during the hour and a half both ways.":::...

Both ways uphill, of course? And there was no heat or A/C so it was always hot in the summer and cold in the winter. But you never had a chance to notice the weather because you had to worry about the thieves trying to harvest your organs, not that they had much salt in them because you were so tired from your two night jobs.

[illinicheme]

I commute ~3 hrs a day (varies +/- 30 min depending on traffic). It's manageable because I take a vanpool and I don't have kids yet. I'd certainly prefer to have a shorter commute, but it's just not currently possible and have DH and I both employed in our chosen careers.

I use the time to read, nap, or chat with my coworkers. I only have to drive two of the ten shifts each week, and my company has commuter benefits that make taking a vanpool essentially free.

If the job is a big enough step up, I'd go for it. If it works out great, there's always the possibility of moving closer. Or leveraging the new position into a different job down the line.

[wewillsee]

I live in the Chicago suburbs and commute downtown to the loop most days on Metra. My door to desk commute is typically anywhere from an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and a half. I am on a fairly rigid schedule even though my train line has a good amount of express trains. In the morning I leave my house about 20 minutes before the train is scheduled to leave the station, drive to train station, pay $1.50 per day to park, then take the train for about 30 to 40 minutes and then I have a 20 - 25 minute walk from the dowtown train station to my office. If I drive, parking is cheapest at $13 a day if I get there real early, otherwise it is at least $24 a day. Also add about 30 minutes driving each way plus tolls. Hence, commuting on the train is much cheaper but you are stuck on their schedule, which is a PITA if you need to stay late for work, dinners, happy hours or if you have a Dr. appt or other morning function that makes you come in late. Overall, the commute is definietly draining although taking the train is certainly better than sitting in traffic.

However, I knew all of this when I took this job 5 years ago because it offered significantly higher pay than staying in a smaller metro area or even working in the suburbs. You need to figure out what is important to you and your family. I do travel a fair amount too so I typically only do this commute 3 days a week or so.

Decide on what is most important to you (time, money, career opportunity, etc.) and negoitiate the best possible compensation package. Don't "take what you can get." This is a big decision.

[swasat]

Nov 7, 2011 11:00:54 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Three hours a day? That's nothing I did it at 14. Three hours a day is quite doable so long as you get a seat on the train and can work during the commute. That is when I did all my studying in high school, during the hour and a half both ways.

Ha ha ha !

But at 14 you don't have to worry about kids, house chores, 8 hour work days, work deliverables, cooking, cleaning, doctor appointments, bill payments, homework, parent/teacher conferences and all the other adult stuff.

So your experiences at 14 were "quite' different from what the OP will experiencing.

[swasat]

Nov 7, 2011 12:02:16 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"That is when I did all my studying in high school, during the hour and a half both ways.":::...

Both ways uphill, of course? And there was no heat or A/C so it was always hot in the summer and cold in the winter. But you never had a chance to notice the weather because you had to worry about the thieves trying to harvest your organs, not that they had much salt in them because you were so tired from your two night jobs.

ROFLMAO!! ;D ;D ;D ;D



That was priceless!!!

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2011 12:02:16 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"That is when I did all my studying in high school, during the hour and a half both ways.":::...

Both ways uphill, of course? And there was no heat or A/C so it was always hot in the summer and cold in the winter. But you never had a chance to notice the weather because you had to worry about the thieves trying to harvest your organs, not that they had much salt in them because you were so tired from your two night jobs.

[The Captain]

Comments all appreciated. To be clear - the commute is about 1.5 hours each way or about 3 hours a day total (more in bad weather). Right now I see the biggest challenge as making sure the culture is clear on accepting you have to be out the door at a certain time as "we are all slaves to the train schedule"

[tskeeter]

Any "working downtown" premium should be already built into the compensation offer. If the offer is in line with comparable jobs in the downtown area, a potential employer probably isn't going to give you much more. Where you live is your choice, not your bosses. So, it becomes a personal decision for you to make if you feel the job, the pay, and the opportunities are worth the sacrifices.

A thought on working form home. There is a certain amount of perspective that "if your face ain't at work, you ain't working", unless you are working for a company with a significant work from home culture. You're lack of presence at the office is likely to have some impact on whether or not you are considered a top candidate for future opportunities.