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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 9, 2011 20:48:10 GMT -5
(cue clara rockmore theremin solo) Will someone please let me know when DJLungrot actually has something intelligent to say? I'm getting tired of all my opponents stooping to either ad hominen attacks or deflections in their sad and ineffective attempts to counter my positions. Wow, for a true and worthy contender. Oh well, back to writing! Not sure or not if I am a worthy contender ameiko....but I read the letter that Cantor and Boehner sent to Obama and heard Cantor being interviewed today about what he plans to do to create more jobs so let's watch and see how he does over the next few weeks.
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 9, 2011 20:51:48 GMT -5
Find a way to make gasoline cheaper by $1 per gallon. THAT will energize the economy. Good point and the only way to do that would be to reduce the Federal and/or States taxes that are a major part of the price of gasoline at the pump...or to increase domestic oil production but that might take years
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 20:52:23 GMT -5
really? more divisive than Cantor? more divisive than Maxine Waters? more divisive than Jeremiah Wright? more divisive than Pat Robertson? ameko- do you want to be taken seriously? then please. get real. If you want to be taken seriously, then get intelligent. . i see. so, we are going to discuss our intelligences now. ok, ameiko. alright. let's get this out of the way right now, shall we? you are a genius. i, on the other hand, am a moron. now that we have that out of the way- can we try to stick to the actual subject from now on, because, frankly, your intelligence is so imposing and intimidating that i nearly wet myself everytime you mention it, and it makes it hard to type.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 20:55:13 GMT -5
(cue clara rockmore theremin solo) Will someone please let me know when DJLungrot actually has something intelligent to say? I'm getting tired of all my opponents stooping to either ad hominen attacks or deflections in their sad and ineffective attempts to counter my positions. Wow, for a true and worthy contender. Oh well, back to writing! oh........ominous all powerful pan-dimentional mind God- oh, please- shower me with some mere scraps and leavings from your limitless well of intellect? like, maybe....you could start .......by addressing the point rather than engaging in ad hominem arguing? maybe?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:03:31 GMT -5
(cue clara rockmore theremin solo) Will someone please let me know when DJLungrot actually has something intelligent to say? I'm getting tired of all my opponents stooping to either ad hominen attacks or deflections in their sad and ineffective attempts to counter my positions. nice inoculation. i would be happy to discuss it. so, you really think Obama is more invective than Maxine Waters? is he more divisive than Rush Limbaugh? how about that Savage guy- the one that invented a new meaning for Santorum. Obama is more divisive than him? no, ameiko. Obama is one of the LEAST divisive people out there, imo. the problem is that this appeasing cloying crap he has been doing is NOT LEADERSHIP. he is more a follower.....not.....good. but hey, you are entitled to your opinion. even if you can't or won't support it.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:09:08 GMT -5
really? more divisive than Cantor? more divisive than Maxine Waters? more divisive than Jeremiah Wright? more divisive than Pat Robertson? ameko- do you want to be taken seriously? then please. get real. If you want to be taken seriously, then get intelligent. The individuals you mentioned might say some pretty outrageous things now and then but in terms of overall impact, there is NO question that Obama due: 1. his frequent use of violent rhetoric, class warfare, race baiting, and slander of opponents 2. his arrogance and contempt for anyone who disagree with him. 3. as well as his tolerance of violence by his allies as seen by his refusal to condemn violent rhetoric by the unions even when he is speaking as the same event as Hoffa was when he said he wanted to go after the SOB's 4. his access to media and coverage by them Put it all together and he sows far, far more division than anyone that you mentioned. Sure, morons like Waters say some outrageous things but usually they go unnoticed or unreported or simply given little credence. Not so with Obama whose every tirade, tantrum, and tongue-lashing receive world wide coverage. Seriously, think before you post man. i think every second i am awake, man. it is like a plague for me, seriously. i wish i could make it stop. so, can you get specific about those accusations? let's start with #1. can you give me some examples of violent rhetoric? i think 2-3 would be sufficient. i am perfectly willing to admit that i might have missed something. i don't really listen to Obama that much.
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 9, 2011 21:39:31 GMT -5
Partial quote: Forbes analysis of the prez's speech: (click link for full text) www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/09/09/obamas-jobs-By far his most ambitious idea is to extend through 2012 and expand the payroll tax cut that was due to expire at the end of this year. His plan, which would reduce federal revenues by $170 billion, would cut the worker share of the payroll tax to 3.1 percent from 4.2 percent (it was 6.2 percent prior to this year’s tax holiday). At the same time, it would cut the employer share to 3.1 percent from 6.2 percent on the first $5 million of payroll. Firms that add workers or give current employees raises would pay no wage tax on up to $50 million in new payroll. On the spending side, Obama would give $85 billion to state and local governments to, among other things, build and repair schools and hire (or rehire) teachers, spend $50 billion on transportation, create a $10 billion infrastructure bank, and spend $55 billion to extend unemployment benefits for another year and otherwise help the long-term jobless. He has already cut Social Security with the tax cut last year. Now he wants to make it even more insolvent. On the spending side, The last stimulus went for local and state governments and to rehire teachers, and also supposedly for infrastructure. Now we are going to do it again. Note to the President: These steps have been taken by you previously. They did not work. What is that old definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting a different result?
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 9, 2011 21:41:10 GMT -5
You guys are missing the fact that Obama's speech was just his ideas for a Jobs Bill....we all know he is not a strong and forceful leader who will jam through congress what he wants done...
And because the Repubs control the House of Representatives it is now up to them to take the lead on creating jobs..so we have to see how well they perform...Obama is out campaigning and about all he will do is sign the legislation for a Jobs Bill when it is put on his desk
As I said before look for Congressman Cantor and Ryan to present their proposal and then have Boehner get it passed by the House...
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:45:43 GMT -5
You guys are missing the fact that Obama's speech was just his ideas for a Jobs Bill....we all know he is not a strong and forceful leader who will jam through congress what he wants done... And because the Repubs control the House of Representatives it is now up to them to take the lead on creating jobs..so we have to see how well they perform...Obama is out campaigning and about all he will do is sign the legislation for a Jobs Bill when it is put on his desk As I said before look for Congressman Cantor and Ryan to present their proposal and then have Boehner get it passed by the House... i agree with you about 90%, reformed. however, i think that Obama will have a role to play here, in that the Democrats will line up behind him if we get into a jam. i could be wrong. in fact, i have been, repeatedly. but i think this is different. and the reason is that EVERYONE agrees that we need to create jobs. EV-RY-1.
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 9, 2011 21:48:24 GMT -5
You guys are missing the fact that Obama's speech was just his ideas for a Jobs Bill....we all know he is not a strong and forceful leader who will jam through congress what he wants done... And because the Repubs control the House of Representatives it is now up to them to take the lead on creating jobs..so we have to see how well they perform...Obama is out campaigning and about all he will do is sign the legislation for a Jobs Bill when it is put on his desk As I said before look for Congressman Cantor and Ryan to present their proposal and then have Boehner get it passed by the House... Ah, reformeddaytrader, the President told Congress to pass the freakin bill, or he will take his fight to the streets of America. He also told the public to call Congress and tell them to pass it now. There was absolutely no sign of any compromise, or an assumption of a compromise as being "allowed" by the President.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:48:53 GMT -5
Partial quote: Forbes analysis of the prez's speech: (click link for full text) www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/09/09/obamas-jobs-By far his most ambitious idea is to extend through 2012 and expand the payroll tax cut that was due to expire at the end of this year. His plan, which would reduce federal revenues by $170 billion, would cut the worker share of the payroll tax to 3.1 percent from 4.2 percent (it was 6.2 percent prior to this year’s tax holiday). At the same time, it would cut the employer share to 3.1 percent from 6.2 percent on the first $5 million of payroll. Firms that add workers or give current employees raises would pay no wage tax on up to $50 million in new payroll. On the spending side, Obama would give $85 billion to state and local governments to, among other things, build and repair schools and hire (or rehire) teachers, spend $50 billion on transportation, create a $10 billion infrastructure bank, and spend $55 billion to extend unemployment benefits for another year and otherwise help the long-term jobless. He has already cut Social Security with the tax cut last year. Now he wants to make it even more insolvent. On the spending side, The last stimulus went for local and state governments and to rehire teachers, and also supposedly for infrastructure. Now we are going to do it again. Note to the President: These steps have been taken by you previously. They did not work. What is that old definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting a different result? ok, let's say for sake of argument that you are right. that Obama's tax cuts and stimulus didn't work- just like Bush's tax cuts and stimulus didn't work. what do you think WOULD work?
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 9, 2011 21:50:09 GMT -5
90%...... Obama will just campaign for the next 14 months.....he was put in a box to come up with a Jobs Bill Proposal that he did last night....do you think he is going to roll up his sleeves over the next few weeks and have Jobs Bill meetings in the White House with Boehner, Pelosi, Reid and McConnell??? Not likely he passed the buck onto the congress and now he feels they own it..
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:50:31 GMT -5
You guys are missing the fact that Obama's speech was just his ideas for a Jobs Bill....we all know he is not a strong and forceful leader who will jam through congress what he wants done... And because the Repubs control the House of Representatives it is now up to them to take the lead on creating jobs..so we have to see how well they perform...Obama is out campaigning and about all he will do is sign the legislation for a Jobs Bill when it is put on his desk As I said before look for Congressman Cantor and Ryan to present their proposal and then have Boehner get it passed by the House... Ah, reformeddaytrader, the President told Congress to pass the freakin bill, or he will take his fight to the streets of America. He also told the public to call Congress and tell them to pass it now. There was absolutely no sign of any compromise, or an assumption of a compromise as being "allowed" by the President. that would be impressive if he actually did that, rather than spending 9 months of fruitless debate on it, like he did with the ACA, or two months of fruitless debate with that absolutely retarded compromise to raise the debt ceiling. but he won't. he will cave in. he always does. AL-WAYS.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:52:35 GMT -5
90%...... Obama will just campaign for the next 14 months.....he was put in a box to come up with a Jobs Bill Proposal that he did last night....do you think he is going to roll up his sleeves over the next few weeks and have Jobs Bill meetings in the White House with Boehner, Pelosi, Reid and McConnell??? Not likely he passed the buck onto the congress and now he feels they own it.. it is rare for me to agree with ANYONE more than 90%. take it as a compliment. ;D
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 9, 2011 21:54:53 GMT -5
Obama has already taken his Jobs Bill Proposal to Virginia..and apparently the crowd was respectful but probably leery of him with another Big Stimulus Package because the others were not that successful..
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 9, 2011 21:58:39 GMT -5
90%...... Obama will just campaign for the next 14 months.....he was put in a box to come up with a Jobs Bill Proposal that he did last night....do you think he is going to roll up his sleeves over the next few weeks and have Jobs Bill meetings in the White House with Boehner, Pelosi, Reid and McConnell??? Not likely he passed the buck onto the congress and now he feels they own it.. it is rare for me to agree with ANYONE more than 90%. take it as a compliment. ;D Hell I got an 80% on the last ten threads I started ...8 were ok but apparently 2 went down the drain...photoshopped photo and edited Obama speech...but hey 8 for 10 iis better than most others..
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:59:14 GMT -5
Obama has already taken his Jobs Bill Proposal to Virginia..and apparently the crowd was respectful but probably leery of him with another Big Stimulus Package because the others were not that successful.. you are right. they could have been more successful. instead of putting 50% of the weight in tax benefits (which are very inefficient at creating jobs in a declining economy), they could have put all of that money into job creation. so, how would YOU do it differently, reform?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2011 21:59:46 GMT -5
it is rare for me to agree with ANYONE more than 90%. take it as a compliment. ;D Hell I got an 80% on the last ten threads I started ...8 were ok but apparently 2 went down the drain...photoshopped photo and edited Obama speech...but hey 8 for 10 iis better than most others.. LOL!
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 9, 2011 22:04:27 GMT -5
Obama has already taken his Jobs Bill Proposal to Virginia..and apparently the crowd was respectful but probably leery of him with another Big Stimulus Package because the others were not that successful.. you are right. they could have been more successful. instead of putting 50% of the weight in tax benefits (which are very inefficient at creating jobs in a declining economy), they could have put all of that money into job creation. so, how would YOU do it differently, reform? I have been too hung up on 9/11 lately to give it much thought but said before Congress needs to give small business some help to create jobs, but there are no quick fixes...my issue is not the goverenment regulations that I can live with but the dam taxes and tax preparations for my small business.. I like Congressman Ryan's ideas about overhauling the tax system..
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 9, 2011 22:09:23 GMT -5
Partial quote: He has already cut Social Security with the tax cut last year. Now he wants to make it even more insolvent. On the spending side, The last stimulus went for local and state governments and to rehire teachers, and also supposedly for infrastructure. Now we are going to do it again. Note to the President: These steps have been taken by you previously. They did not work. What is that old definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting a different result? ok, let's say for sake of argument that you are right. that Obama's tax cuts and stimulus didn't work- just like Bush's tax cuts and stimulus didn't work. what do you think WOULD work? 1. The American dollar must stop being weakened by Federal deficit spending. 2. Corporate tax rate has to be cut to between 12 and 15% with most, if not all, "regular deductions" disappearing. Corporations earned it, they tax it. 3. There has to be a tax holiday, on foreign earnings, so they can be returned home. With this, the President and Congress has to tell corporate America, GE, specifically, but others as well, off shoring jobs has to stop. Put a Federal tax on all offshore employees of $5,000 per year that corporations must pay. Here again, lower the tax rate, bring it home. The corporations will either reinvest it, or return it to shareholders, creating income tax one way or another. 4. Any citizen making over $25,000 after child tax credits, but not any other deductions allowed, has to pay a minimum tax of at least $250 Do away with the earned income tax credit. They did not earn it-it is a giveaway. Anyone making over $250,000, a minimum of $25,000, regardless of tax deduction totals. Million dollars, a 100,000 tax bill Period. Anything over 20,000,000 make it 19% Anything over 30,000,000 and up make it 22% Yes, I over simplify, and the numbers might not be on the mark, but it can be a good starting point. Also: not for the good of the economy, but for deficit spending: Every hospital bill accumalated by a foreign citizen who does not pay, must be billed to the Embassy of that country of origin of that person. These countries will be charged for every penny. If they refuse to pay in full, on a quarterly basis, all economic and military aid for that country ceases immediately. Any money foreign countries have in our banks are automatically frozen until the debt is paid.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2011 9:41:15 GMT -5
i see. tax cuts. but tax cuts in the last decade have failed to produce jobs. and companies are already awash in cash. they are just unwilling to spend it because there is inadequate demand.
i think you guys are putting the cart before the horse. jobs need to come before tax cuts, not after them- UNLESS businesses just start spontaneously hiring. maybe what should be done is that the tax cuts should be TIED to job creation. that might work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 10:25:14 GMT -5
reformeddaytrader - It wasn't the SF chronicle, which I still read online. Here's a quote: However, the president couldn't resist following his jobs message with a barrage of same-old, same-old class rhetoric, making you wonder whether he's serious about getting Republican leaders to meet in the middle on a badly needed economic package.
But if there must be a political fight in a country desperate for jobs, we'll side with Obama's argument that the federal government can and should help stir economic activity, and bring some relief to the 14 million jobless Americans. That doesn't mean we had to like the second half of the president's speech that was thinly disguised campaign boilerplate.
The president and his true believers can have the rhetoric, but we'll take the jobs -- in highway construction and remodeled schools, and hiring spurred by tax incentives -- that would come from the $450 billion or so in targeted investments in Obama's American Jobs Act.
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 10, 2011 10:31:15 GMT -5
reformeddaytrader - It wasn't the SF chronicle, which I still read online. Here's a quote: However, the president couldn't resist following his jobs message with a barrage of same-old, same-old class rhetoric, making you wonder whether he's serious about getting Republican leaders to meet in the middle on a badly needed economic package.
But if there must be a political fight in a country desperate for jobs, we'll side with Obama's argument that the federal government can and should help stir economic activity, and bring some relief to the 14 million jobless Americans. That doesn't mean we had to like the second half of the president's speech that was thinly disguised campaign boilerplate.
The president and his true believers can have the rhetoric, but we'll take the jobs -- in highway construction and remodeled schools, and hiring spurred by tax incentives -- that would come from the $450 billion or so in targeted investments in Obama's American Jobs Act. Ok but actually I thought the President gave a pretty good speech and next week he is supposed to release all of the details to back up his words...But the question on everyone's mind that I know is how the hell is he going to pay for $450-$650 Billion in new spending??
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 10, 2011 10:42:03 GMT -5
Find a way to make gasoline cheaper by $1 per gallon. THAT will energize the economy. Good point and the only way to do that would be to reduce the Federal and/or States taxes that are a major part of the price of gasoline at the pump...or to increase domestic oil production but that might take years Actually if the US announced and started to make good plans to move forward with dramatically increasing its domestic production of petroleum, through on/off shore drilling, coal gasification, etc, it is true that a lot of the product would take years to come on line, but it would have an immediate and downward effect on current prices. And this would of course add millions of real jobs and eventually start keeping more money at home rather than going to foreign countries for our energy. Dramatically increasing domestic energy production would probably be the single best thing for our economy.
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Post by reformeddaytrader on Sept 10, 2011 10:53:37 GMT -5
Dramatically increasing domestic energy production would probably be the single best thing for our economy.
And in a few years you could see more electric powered vehicles if the promises by Lithium Battery Companies (A123) are real ..they hope to gain @10 - 20% of the auto and truck industy by 2004...
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 10, 2011 11:16:14 GMT -5
Dramatically increasing domestic energy production would probably be the single best thing for our economy. And in a few years you could see more electric powered vehicles if the promises by Lithium Battery Companies (A123) are real ..they hope to gain @10 - 20% of the auto and truck industy by 2004... We need to lighten up on the regulations preventing us from producing rare earth minerals as well, we don't want to trade one devil (oil) for another (batteries produced with rare earth materials) I would say we need to reduce regulations dramatically across the board, this could be done without putting people at risk.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 11:35:57 GMT -5
and next week he is supposed to release all of the details to back up his words.. I've heard that line so many times I have no faith in it.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2011 14:49:07 GMT -5
reformeddaytrader - It wasn't the SF chronicle, which I still read online. Here's a quote: However, the president couldn't resist following his jobs message with a barrage of same-old, same-old class rhetoric, making you wonder whether he's serious about getting Republican leaders to meet in the middle on a badly needed economic package.
But if there must be a political fight in a country desperate for jobs, we'll side with Obama's argument that the federal government can and should help stir economic activity, and bring some relief to the 14 million jobless Americans. That doesn't mean we had to like the second half of the president's speech that was thinly disguised campaign boilerplate.
The president and his true believers can have the rhetoric, but we'll take the jobs -- in highway construction and remodeled schools, and hiring spurred by tax incentives -- that would come from the $450 billion or so in targeted investments in Obama's American Jobs Act. Ok but actually I thought the President gave a pretty good speech and next week he is supposed to release all of the details to back up his words...But the question on everyone's mind that I know is how the hell is he going to pay for $450-$650 Billion in new spending?? well, i can respond to both halves of that, based on what i read. the answer to the first question is an emphatic yes. he is going to release a detailed plan, and he is going to do it this month, apparently. he is proposing to pay for it by closing loopholes and by using targeted tax increases. these will also be spelled out in detail by month's end. now, that is from sources inside the Admin. we will see if it goes down that way.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2011 14:50:36 GMT -5
and next week he is supposed to release all of the details to back up his words.. I've heard that line so many times I have no faith in it. really? i can't remember EVER hearing it. his typical approach is to throw it in the lap of congress and tell them to "come up with something i can sign".
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2011 14:53:10 GMT -5
Good point and the only way to do that would be to reduce the Federal and/or States taxes that are a major part of the price of gasoline at the pump...or to increase domestic oil production but that might take years Actually if the US announced and started to make good plans to move forward with dramatically increasing its domestic production of petroleum, through on/off shore drilling, coal gasification, etc, it is true that a lot of the product would take years to come on line, but it would have an immediate and downward effect on current prices. And this would of course add millions of real jobs and eventually start keeping more money at home rather than going to foreign countries for our energy. Dramatically increasing domestic energy production would probably be the single best thing for our economy. how do you propose to do that?
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