Any one remember how WW1 started ?

[deziloooooo]

It's been I think 97 years, wasn't it 1914, or so, any way , a long time ago and except for historians and older ones like me , who love History..new generation, not the greatest subject, my daughter as sharp as one could want in a child hates the subject, but still..it started by little things and this debka article with the threats of one and the possibility of action of another, and with large powers also getting involved, expect Russia to weigh in soon, possible China..mmmm, deja vue??
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www.debka.com/article/21188/
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Mon August 8, 2011Breaking NewsErdogan calls emergency cabinet meeting attended by army, intel chiefs on Turkey's action in light of continuing Syrian military slaughter • Kuwait recalls in its ambassador from Damascus after Saudi Arabia •
Syria's Secret War

US, Saudi Arabia smuggle satellite phones to Syrian rebels


Assad toughs it out against US-Turkish ultimatum to halt military crackdown

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report August 8, 2011, 10:03 AM (GMT+02:00)

Deir al-Zour under Syrian tank assault

As his tanks and artillery stormed the eastern Syrian town of Deir al-Zour, killing 100 civilians in one day, the US and Turkey Sunday night, Aug. 7 began to turn the screw on President Bashar Assad: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton asked Turkey's foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu to press Syria to "return its military to the barracks," during his visit to Syria Tuesday.

Behind the demand was an ultimatum that if Assad continued on his present bloody path, NATO member Turkey would intervene militarily in the crisis.

However, the Syrian ruler with backing from Tehran spurned the ultimatum even before the Turkish minister reached Damascus. "He will be given an even tougher message to take home," said one of Assad's top advisers.

debkafile's Iranian sources report that in the last few days, Tehran has repeatedly warned Ankara that Iran will not stand aside for a military operation against Syria and would come to the aid of the Assad regime.

It was indicated that Turkish attacks on Syrian military targets would bring forth Iranian attacks on the Turkish army and American bases in Turkey.

Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah recalled his ambassador to Damascus Monday, demanding an end to the bloodshed. "What is happening in Syria is not acceptable for Saudi Arabia," he said in a written statement read out on Al Arabiya satellite television.

Our military sources report that Assad was not deterred from pushing on Monday with his assault on the oil town of Deir al-Zour for the second day.

For the first time in the five-month crackdown on protesters, the Syrian military are using self-propelled heavy artillery against rebel targets in a wide radius around the town to prevent the approach of rebel reinforcements.

Although he knew the US-Turkish ultimatum was coming, he embarked on his Deir el-Zour operation Sunday in order to present Washington and Ankara with a fait accompli.

Sunday, Aug. 7, disclosed that Ankara's threat of military intervention was back in play."

[handyman2]

Yep the assignation of the Arch-Duke Ferdinand.

[Phoenix84]

Well, I recall from high school history class that the assasination of an Archduke was the spark that lit the keg. But the problems occured long before then. There was a large number of alliances among the major powers of the time. That's about all I remember off hand.

[wyouser]

plus a neverending buildup of standing armies and a run away naval arms race

[magichat]

How about what happened to get the US involved, that's a good piece of trivia.

[wyouser]

Interesting read referencing foreign policy and economic gridlock. finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/113269/decade-us-economic-hell-marketwatch?mod=bb-budgeting 2011-2020 Decade of US Economic Hell Last paragraph: "warning, in short, that we are headed into a perfect storm rivalling the disasterious political insanity of the 1930's., that prolonged the depression driving the economy into far reaching global problems that added fire to an irrational zeitgeist and world war. And more." Thought here that there may be more in common with the 1930s and the lead up to WWII than the years before 1914 and WWI.

[wyouser]

Although the situation in the middle east today, is about as messed up as the situation in the Balkans before 1914. Borders that dont match ethnic groupings, rivalries, religious hatred etc

[thyme4change]

Has Serbia been the root cause of all the world's problems? Or does it just seem that way?

[sesfw]

'How about what happened to get the US involved, that's a good piece of trivia.'

The sinking of the Lusitania. That original war is still going on.

[wyouser]

Serbia or the former Yugoslavia is a good case in point. Religious mix of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim. Plus a mixture of Slovenes, Croatians, Serbs and Albanian ethnic groups with a history of strife . Oh, I almost forgot, there is still a strong Hungarian minority in Vovodinia (sp)in the north of Serbia proper.

[deziloooooo]

Aug 8, 2011 11:39:33 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Interesting read referencing foreign policy and economic gridlock. finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/113269/decade-us-economic-hell-marketwatch?mod=bb-budgeting 2011-2020 Decade of US Economic Hell Last paragraph: "warning, in short, that we are headed into a perfect storm rivalling the disasterious political insanity of the 1930's., that prolonged the depression driving the economy into far reaching global problems that added fire to an irrational zeitgeist and world war. And more." Thought here that there may be more in common with the 1930s and the lead up to WWII than the years before 1914 and WWI.

Possible, though I was thinking, no one really wanted what turned out to be the way that war played out, but there had been a long time between wars so nations were kind of wanting to "get it on ", thinking brisk quick what evers, naturally thinking they would be the victor..and threats and demands were also being thrown around as they are now..I am sure the last thing Turkey needs or wants is to go into Syria, even in a peace taking protective role..safe haven for the dissadents..once they cross the border , some one on the Iraquio side will pull a trigger, whether by accident or actual iorders from on high..then Iran gets involved, and if they ever did attack a US base in Turkey, or turkey itself, there would be a response, and from their..and Russia also having to go to the aid of ..and before you know it, a small uprising in a really non important country and off we go..

Who knows , if for no more reason then to take the pressure off of the economies , the financial melt downs, the rampant unemployment that seems to have no real quick answer to solve, that are a major part of the globe today..

[wyouser]

There was an article over the weekend ,I think, expressing concerns by Iraqi Kurds that Iranian Republican Guards were trying to destroy Kurdish villages in Iraq and that Turkey was proving arial assistance to the Iranians (Both Turkey and Iran are opposed to any possibility of the creation of an independant Kurdish state.( They both have sizeable Kurdish minorities)

[deziloooooo]

Aug 8, 2011 12:38:10 GMT -5 wyouser said:

There was an article over the weekend ,I think, expressing concerns by Iraqi Kurds that Iranian Republican Guards were trying to destroy Kurdish villages in Iraq and that Turkey was proving arial assistance to the Iranians (Both Turkey and Iran are opposed to any possibility of the creation of an independant Kurdish state.( They both have sizeable Kurdish minorities)

I don't understand who and what the Kurds are, just what is usually reported in the media. I wonder if anyone has done a book or study on the people in the context of today's world.

I know they are in the area of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and possible in some of the former Soviet controlled areas that are now independent nations , called the 'stans "..and all the nations who have sizable members of the group are concerned and adamant in seeming to keep them down..afraid that they would become a independent nation.

Common sense to me, naturally as I said , I know so little of them , who what they are, their culture, beliefs , wants besides the wanting to be a separate Kurdish nation, yet have thought if they are such a diverse people, why not cut them some slack, allow their own culture to be taught in the schools, allow their own language to be spoken, written, published, media sources, news papers, even TV channels encouraged if enough of a demand for, such as our Spanish language channels..

I am thinking these countries have a lot to learn in how to deal with large groups of their own citizens who are a bit different then the majority in blending into their own culture, yet being allowed freedom to keep their own heritage and culture and identity..

[Don Perignon]

Yes, the Archduke and his wife were shot, but the situation would not have snowballed beyond control if not for the exploitation of the circumstances by the narcissistic and egotistical Kaiser. Willie had his spiked-helmeted "elite" Prussian Warrior cultists just itching for the promotions and honors that they could only get in battle. "Bring it AWWWNNN!!!"
All they needed was an excuse to launch their offensive.

[wyouser]

There was an interesting series of notes between Wilhelm and Nicholas (The Romanovs and Hohenmzollern houses were related by marriages ) resulting in the start and stop and start and stop of Russian mobilization that would cause all the alliance machinery to kick in and result in war. Every time Wilhelm sent a note and Nicholas would hestitate, the French would rush in and convince Nicholas to restart the mobilization (Russia was allied to France)

[wyouser]

There was plenty of blame to go around many of the participants in starting WWI.

[Deleted]

I keep meaning to read this book. Hochschild is a great historian.

www.amazon.com/End-All-Wars-Rebellion-1914-1918/dp/0618758283

[wyouser]

I cant remember the author's name, a lady, but" the Guns of August" is also a good book on the subject