Scariest economic graphs

[Deleted]

The 4 Scariest Economic Graphs I've Seen This Year
By Derek Thompson

Aug 2 2011, 8:17 PM ET 59
This is a remarkable sequence of pictures from Calculated Risk showing that no major economic indicator has returned to its pre-crisis level. In other words, after two years of recovery, not a single key broad measure of the economy has actually recovered.

The ingenious thing about these graphs, which I've never before seen, is that they compare key recession indicators as a share of their pre-recession peaks. The outcome reveals each recession in the last 50 years as a kind of hanging icicle. Ours is by far the longest, and we don't yet know when we'll trace our way back to the 2007. Here's why I don't expect the path up to get much smoother in the near future.

[safeharbor37]

What some people don't seem to grasp is that all that money the government spends has to come from somewhere; either the private sector or the printing presses. It's as if the current economic problems are a result of Obama not writing big enough checks.

[henryclay]

Right on, safeharbor.!!

And every dollar the government takes, they spend on something that the private sector could have, and would have, done a better job of.

Privatize Social Security? Hell no. Privatize the Department of Education. Privatize the study of shrimps on treadmills. Make government employee unions and retirements meet the same standards as Sears and UPS.

The founders foretold over 200 years agi that a top-heavy government would be the ruination of their work and all the lives lost.

Dramatic? Read up on what happened to the signers of the Declaration of Indeopendence and THEN say it's dramatic.

[Deleted]

Why would it get better? We spoked the world. When the government is forced to quit spending you will likely have a depression in the US. Tea partiers and some repubs seem to me hoping with glee this will happen for some reason.

For some reason? I guess you missed the explination over & over & over.

Everytime those government dollars are cut that's jobs, jobs, and more jobs cut. Not good at all.

Those jobs should be & should have always been in the private sector where the government doesn't have to pay for them. Dems just don't get this fact. If everybody worked for the government......Taxes would have to be more than 100% to pay their paycheck. Why is this hard to understand??

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 3, 2011 22:35:30 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Why would it get better? We spoked the world. When the government is forced to quit spending you will likely have a depression in the US. Tea partiers and some repubs seem to me hoping with glee this will happen for some reason.

For some reason? I guess you missed the explination over & over & over.

Everytime those government dollars are cut that's jobs, jobs, and more jobs cut. Not good at all.

Those jobs should be & should have always been in the private sector where the government doesn't have to pay for them. Dems just don't get this fact. If everybody worked for the government......Taxes would have to be more than 100% to pay their paycheck. Why is this hard to understand??

patstab doesn't want to get it.

[djAdvocate]

Those jobs should be & should have always been in the private sector where the government doesn't have to pay for them. Dems just don't get this fact. If everybody worked for the government......Taxes would have to be more than 100% to pay their paycheck. Why is this hard to understand?

nobody is talking about everyone working for the government, tho, right?

[handyman2]

What I find laughable is that the talking heads keep saying the government needs to invest in shovel ready jobs. It is obvious that they do no even know what that term means. Rebuild the roads and bridges they say. Well that is all well and good but the caveat is that many engineering projects take a long time to get everything in place to do that from the engineering design, soil studies, traffic studies, material studies on and on. Not that these may be worthy projects it is that to prevent further decline in the economy we need to focus on more immediate solutions and only the private sector has the capability to do that. So it behooves the government to focus on that factor at present by getting rid of the favored foreign nation free trade agreements that are cutting our throats in competing.

[djAdvocate]

for the record, i have seen much scarier graphs.

[Phoenix84]

"Why would it get better? We spoked the world. When the government is forced to quit spending you will likely have a depression in the US. Tea partiers and some repubs seem to me hoping with glee this will happen for some reason"

So the only reason we are still in a recession is because the government didn't tax/borrow and spend enough money? You really think you can borrow and tax your way to prosperity?

That's the liberal solution to everything, tax it, borrow it, and throw money at the problem until it goes away.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 4, 2011 10:07:58 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

"Why would it get better? We spoked the world. When the government is forced to quit spending you will likely have a depression in the US. Tea partiers and some repubs seem to me hoping with glee this will happen for some reason"

So the only reason we are still in a recession is because the government didn't tax/borrow and spend enough money? You really think you can borrow and tax your way to prosperity?

That's the liberal solution to everything, tax it, borrow it, and throw money at the problem until it goes away.

sounds just like the Republican solution. except for they seem to prefer deficits to taxes.

[Phoenix84]

"sounds just like the Republican solution. except for they seem to prefer deficits to taxes"

So you think the solution to the economic problems and debt problems is to increase taxes?

[Angel!]

Aug 4, 2011 9:10:57 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

What I find laughable is that the talking heads keep saying the government needs to invest in shovel ready jobs. It is obvious that they do no even know what that term means. Rebuild the roads and bridges they say. Well that is all well and good but the caveat is that many engineering projects take a long time to get everything in place to do that from the engineering design, soil studies, traffic studies, material studies on and on. Not that these may be worthy projects it is that to prevent further decline in the economy we need to focus on more immediate solutions and only the private sector has the capability to do that. So it behooves the government to focus on that factor at present by getting rid of the favored foreign nation free trade agreements that are cutting our throats in competing.

Working in that industry I can tell you that we were told for a project to be shovel ready, it had to be ready to break ground within 90 days. The shovel ready jobs are all the projects that cities, counties, & states already had planned, studied, and mostly designed. It was all the projects that were just waiting for the budget to allow them to get built.

[Deleted]

nobody is talking about everyone working for the government, tho, right?

Actually expanding the government (hiring more people) was EXACTLY what some of the democrats here on the boards were suggesting to get us out of the recession. For some reason they think that the taxes collected from government workers pays their whole salary PLUS gives the government more money to spend. That's been explained more than once here as to why it doesn't work but it's still a fall back assertion for a cornered democrat (just like when you ask how they will pay for whatever new program they want it's always cut the military or tax the rich.

[jkapp]

Aug 4, 2011 12:18:19 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Aug 4, 2011 9:10:57 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

What I find laughable is that the talking heads keep saying the government needs to invest in shovel ready jobs. It is obvious that they do no even know what that term means. Rebuild the roads and bridges they say. Well that is all well and good but the caveat is that many engineering projects take a long time to get everything in place to do that from the engineering design, soil studies, traffic studies, material studies on and on. Not that these may be worthy projects it is that to prevent further decline in the economy we need to focus on more immediate solutions and only the private sector has the capability to do that. So it behooves the government to focus on that factor at present by getting rid of the favored foreign nation free trade agreements that are cutting our throats in competing.

Working in that industry I can tell you that we were told for a project to be shovel ready, it had to be ready to break ground within 90 days. The shovel ready jobs are all the projects that cities, counties, & states already had planned, studied, and mostly designed. It was all the projects that were just waiting for the budget to allow them to get built.

Which apparently were few and far between...

[Angel!]

Aug 4, 2011 12:59:44 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Aug 4, 2011 12:18:19 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Working in that industry I can tell you that we were told for a project to be shovel ready, it had to be ready to break ground within 90 days. The shovel ready jobs are all the projects that cities, counties, & states already had planned, studied, and mostly designed. It was all the projects that were just waiting for the budget to allow them to get built.

Which apparently were few and far between...

It probably depends on the jurisdiction. I know locally there were several jobs that got funding. It was nice for us because we work on the planning/design part of the projects & it cleared the way for a lot of new projects to start the planning process. It seems like we have had a solid stream of RFPs for the past year now, so much so that our compay has been hiring.

[mmhmm]

Aug 4, 2011 10:26:03 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

"sounds just like the Republican solution. except for they seem to prefer deficits to taxes"

So you think the solution to the economic problems and debt problems is to increase taxes?

Personally, I think it's part of the solution. Another part is to reduce expenditures.

[Mkitty is pro kitty]

And every dollar the government takes, they spend on something that the private sector could have, and would have, done a better job of.

Why don't you get some nice writing paper and inform the members of our troops that, with the pay they get, someone else could have done a better job? I'm sure they'll appreciate your sentiments. Can anyone imagine the costs of our already bloated military budget if we privatized our troops?

Privatize Social Security? Hell no.

Is this a thread where a Conservative doesn't contradict himself? Hell no.

Privatize the Department of Education. Privatize the study of shrimps on treadmills. Make government employee unions and retirements meet the same standards as Sears and UPS.

You omitted our Department of Defense. I'm sort of saddened that you didn't think of our troops; they perform a vital service to our country. Anyone want to explain why Conservatives often do this in these types of discussions?

Those jobs should be & should have always been in the private sector where the government doesn't have to pay for them. Dems just don't get this fact. If everybody worked for the government......Taxes would have to be more than 100% to pay their paycheck. Why is this hard to understand??

I think it's more than sad, I think it's criminal. And to believe that garbage about taking from the rich just because "they have it" is criminally stupid. Apply that thinking to people here. We all have a computer. By your standards anyone that doesn't have a computer has the right to take yours. Their car doesn't run, they can take yours. Sure you don't think that it applies but that's because you aren't wanting something you don't have. With the rich you are wanting something you don't have.

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=politics&thread=12004&page=1

FYI, these "all or nothing" arguments are 100% horseshit. You might want to put that negative one trick pony out to pasture.

Conservative tactic #47: if you can't beat a liberal's argument, just use the old strawman method.

I also find these arguments funny because Conservatives seem to only see things in stark black and white and can only seem to imagine their opponents also think that way. It's like a square trying to argue with a sphere.

For some reason they think that the taxes collected from government workers pays their whole salary PLUS gives the government more money to spend.

No, it gives the workers a salary (or would you rather they collect unemployment?) and with that salary, they buy things and stimulate the economy. Could you do me a favor and inform that strawman liberal that only exists in your head this? Thnx in advance.

Oh, and you should get together with the other Conservatives on this board to see if you can get a group discount from Madame Cleo. But then again, she always seems to be wrong in her mind reading services, so you might want to discontinue using her.

And gee, I'd love for corporations to do more hiring, but even with record profits they lay people off. So where exactly where else would these people get hired? Oh, and massively laying off government workers doesn't save that much with unemployment and such.

it's always cut the military or tax the rich

Gee, we just about outspend every other nation combined. Are you expecting a USA vs everyone else sort of war in the near future?

And we just about lead industrialized nations in income disparity and the top only pays about 16% tax rate. I know, making them pay their fair share is so horrible!

So the only reason ...

Nobody is saying that's the only reason but you. Who's winning your little shadow boxing match?

That's the liberal solution to everything, tax it, borrow it, and throw money at the problem until it goes away.

As opposed to the Conservative solution to defund everything* and when it gets worse defund it some more. Problem NOT solved!

*except defense and money for the wealthy. I guess we need to doubly outspend the rest of the world and let the rich have 99.99% of everything.

So you think the solution to the economic problems and debt problems is to increase taxes?

So you think if we lower taxes, you'll automatically get the "savings"? Why don't you take a gander at the "Delta to refund taxes collected during FAA shutdow[n]" thread.

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=12120

Of course this goes along with Conservatives thinking that corporations are big hearted sugar daddies that will hire just because they get tax breaks (no) and will "pass the savings" on to you instead of pocketing the money for themselves (again, no). Well, at least all that "vote against my interest" ass kissing keeps the chapstick industry alive and well.

It was all the projects that were just waiting for the budget to allow them to get built.

Which apparently were few and far between...

Governor Rick Perry used his money to pay off debt. But WAH! IT'S ALL OBAAAMAAH's FAULT!!!

Rebuild the roads and bridges they say.

Our infrastructure is crumbling. I guess we'll have to wait for the Asphault Fairy to come along because tax cuts won't pay for it.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 4, 2011 10:26:03 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

"sounds just like the Republican solution. except for they seem to prefer deficits to taxes"

So you think the solution to the economic problems and debt problems is to increase taxes?

no. i think our economic problems will be solved by growing our economy. however, cutting spending doesn't help with that one bit, unless you are running a revenue surplus. we are far from that.

[formerexpat]

Our infrastructure is crumbling. I guess we'll have to wait for the Asphault Fairy to come along because tax cuts won't pay for it.

What happened to the reserve that was built up from the historical gasoline taxes, tolls and other fees collected? Those are supposed to be saved for the rainy day and spent on repairs.

Defending our country is one of the few things that Conservatives agree should be the responsibility of the Federal government. Other than that, states should mostly run themselves and have appropriate regulations at that level.

For everyone's sake, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to take and then decide the winners and losers of the government lottery.