reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Aug 2, 2011 17:42:20 GMT -5
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Aug 2, 2011 20:44:23 GMT -5
It is not even 2 trillion of real cuts, it is 2 trillion from the baseline, spending is still going up. I seriously think we are doomed, this was the best they could do when they had there back against the wall.
And unfunded future liabilities far exceed 66 trillion
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 2, 2011 21:18:05 GMT -5
It is not even 2 trillion of real cuts, it is 2 trillion from the baseline, spending is still going up. I seriously think we are doomed, this was the best they could do when they had there back against the wall. And unfunded future liabilities far exceed 66 trillion first of all, Moody's kept our credit rating at AAA. secondly, the 66T figure shows only one thing: wrong assumptions.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Aug 2, 2011 21:31:41 GMT -5
I think the $66T figure shows the extent to which politicians will lie to a generation to get elected with no intent on delivering on those promises.
Total unfunded liabilities for SS, Medicare & prescription drug is $115Tr, so it's a much bigger lie than 66.
The time will come where cuts are made. I'm disappointed that DC didn't do the right thing but not surprised. I hope this spurs the populous to vote for more fiscally responsible representatives in future elections.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 2, 2011 21:48:53 GMT -5
I think the $66T figure shows the extent to which politicians will lie to a generation to get elected with no intent on delivering on those promises. Total unfunded liabilities for SS, Medicare & prescription drug is $115Tr, so it's a much bigger lie than 66. The time will come where cuts are made. I'm disappointed that DC didn't do the right thing but not surprised. I hope this spurs the populous to vote for more fiscally responsible representatives in future elections. \ precisely. the cuts WILL happen. or the costs will decline. or something. but there is no way we will be on the hook for something well beyond our budget.
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Aug 2, 2011 22:27:48 GMT -5
Don't get your knickers in a twist about the unfunded liabilities... there are historical precedents in place illustrating how those things will be handled by the ruling elite. Remember what happened to pensioners in the USSR when the commies went bust?
The usual method of dealing with overblown government debt is devaluation of the currency followed by subsequent inflation of prices. The crooks who ran up all those debts will be more than happy to do to the dollar what has been done in the past to the deutschemark and the Argentinean Peso (from 1999 to 2002 and to the present). You'll need a wheel-barrow full of banknotes to pay your monthly bills. Then "our" crooks ("The Banks")pay the Chinese with dollars worth one-tenth the value of those that were initially borrowed... while charging the US taxpayer 10% ("off the top") for the privilege of allowing us to engage their vitally necessary services. The downside... stagnant wages will not keep pace with rampant inflation, so many people soon will not be able to afford necessities. They'll have to let the Banks foreclose on their homes and assets. The Banks will seize lots of the Real Estate. cha-CHING!
The bamboozling didn't start anytime recently... the ruling elite ("oligarchs") have been playing these games in one form or another since the dawn of civilization. Call it "incentivization"... it's the only way to keep the peasants in harness.
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Aug 2, 2011 22:32:22 GMT -5
we are toast ... since manufacturing has moved offshore ... when we pull government spending out of our economy ... there goes another leg down
it isn't that government is spending too much .. it is the fact that government spending has become a necessary part of our economy .. since manufacturing has left for offshore locations
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 2, 2011 22:59:35 GMT -5
I have already been downgraded. My stock porfolio fell $30,000 today. I thought Obama said if Congress signed the debt deal, the stock market would go up to it July numbers
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Aug 2, 2011 23:20:31 GMT -5
Sorry about your loss Value Buy that is a stiff drop but don't panick yet. Give it a week and the market most likely will recover. Paitience Patience Patience is the word of the day.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Aug 2, 2011 23:24:14 GMT -5
I think the $66T figure shows the extent to which politicians will lie to a generation to get elected with no intent on delivering on those promises. Total unfunded liabilities for SS, Medicare & prescription drug is $115Tr, so it's a much bigger lie than 66. The time will come where cuts are made. I'm disappointed that DC didn't do the right thing but not surprised. I hope this spurs the populous to vote for more fiscally responsible representatives in future elections. \ precisely. the cuts WILL happen. or the costs will decline. or something. but there is no way we will be on the hook for something well beyond our budget. It is true that we simply can't afford the +100 trillion liabilities, however, it is disingenuous to not talk about it. A business would have to list that liability , this was recently brought to life when the Obamacare taxes on Cadillac medical plans had to be listed now even though it was a future liability.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 2, 2011 23:50:40 GMT -5
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txbo
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Post by txbo on Aug 3, 2011 0:04:05 GMT -5
I have already been downgraded. My stock porfolio fell $30,000 today. I thought Obama said if Congress signed the debt deal, the stock market would go up to it July numbers My portfolio fell more than that, I wonder how much tax would have to increase in order to lose that amount. This amount would pay at least two year of income tax. I haven’t looked at the combined losses for the week yet. The dumbest think is they actually believe that cutting spending in a recession is a good thing.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 1:35:49 GMT -5
I have already been downgraded. My stock porfolio fell $30,000 today. I thought Obama said if Congress signed the debt deal, the stock market would go up to it July numbers you need more gold and commodities. that cycle is only about half run imo. buy on weakness. also, i would buy in non-USD denominated accounts. the dollar is a POS.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 1:38:09 GMT -5
I have already been downgraded. My stock porfolio fell $30,000 today. I thought Obama said if Congress signed the debt deal, the stock market would go up to it July numbers My portfolio fell more than that, I wonder how much tax would have to increase in order to lose that amount. This amount would pay at least two year of income tax. I haven’t looked at the combined losses for the week yet. The dumbest think is they actually believe that cutting spending in a recession is a good thing. well, be thankful for this, txbo- most of the cuts won't take place until 2013. hopefully, by then, the economy will be strong enough to take the abuse. for myself, i am not counting on it. i am looking at foreign markets to sell my equipment to.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Aug 3, 2011 6:29:38 GMT -5
It is not even 2 trillion of real cuts, it is 2 trillion from the baseline, spending is still going up. I seriously think we are doomed, this was the best they could do when they had there back against the wall. And unfunded future liabilities far exceed 66 trillion first of all, Moody's kept our credit rating at AAA. secondly, the 66T figure shows only one thing: wrong assumptions. Actually the GAO comptroller Walker has it much higher than that. I will take his word over somebody that hasn't been the accountant for government before.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 5, 2011 6:43:45 GMT -5
This article pretty muc sums up out problem. Debt. Don’t Sell Into Selling Climax: Jim Rogers SELL SELLOFF JIM ROGERS PATRICK ALLEN CNBC MARKETS DOW 500 US QUANTITATIVE EASING EUROPE EURO DEBT CRISIS SOVEREIGN Posted By: Patrick Allen | CNBC EMEA Head of News CNBC.com | 05 Aug 2011 | 07:18 AM ET Investors should not sell into a selling climax, according to Jim Rogers, the CEO and Chairman of Rogers Holdings. Speaking following a 500 point drop in the Dow Jones index on Thursday, the veteran investor noted that 500 points is not what it once was, but warned the heavy selling was a result of huge debts being run up by the United States and Europe. “We have had this debt charade (over the debt ceiling) in the US in recent days and the Europeans are not doing anything about their debts either,” said Rogers in an interview with CNBC. “There are huge imbalances in the global economy and markets had to crack,” added Rogers, who founded the Quantum Fund with George Soros in 1970. Asked what he would do to boost the global economy, Rogers dismissed the idea that more government spending to jobs was not the answer. “You need to take an axe to debt, you need to take a chainsaw to the debt,” said Rogers who also dismissed the idea that another round of quantitative easing was the answer. “America is making horrible mistakes. It is the largest indebted nation in the world and is going deeper and deeper into debt. The world is not in good shape the markets got to correct and take care of these imbalances,” he said. “The market should be allowed to bottom out. QE1 (the first round of quantitative easing) and QE2 didn’t work. Let the market bottom out as more money printing will just make matters worse” said Rogers. © 2011 CNBC.com URL: www.cnbc.com/id/44030919/
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2011 19:38:30 GMT -5
This article pretty muc sums up out problem. Debt. Don’t Sell Into Selling Climax: Jim Rogers SELL SELLOFF JIM ROGERS PATRICK ALLEN CNBC MARKETS DOW 500 US QUANTITATIVE EASING EUROPE EURO DEBT CRISIS SOVEREIGN Posted By: Patrick Allen | CNBC EMEA Head of News CNBC.com | 05 Aug 2011 | 07:18 AM ET Investors should not sell into a selling climax, according to Jim Rogers, the CEO and Chairman of Rogers Holdings. Speaking following a 500 point drop in the Dow Jones index on Thursday, the veteran investor noted that 500 points is not what it once was, but warned the heavy selling was a result of huge debts being run up by the United States and Europe. “We have had this debt charade (over the debt ceiling) in the US in recent days and the Europeans are not doing anything about their debts either,” said Rogers in an interview with CNBC. “There are huge imbalances in the global economy and markets had to crack,” added Rogers, who founded the Quantum Fund with George Soros in 1970. Asked what he would do to boost the global economy, Rogers dismissed the idea that more government spending to jobs was not the answer. “You need to take an axe to debt, you need to take a chainsaw to the debt,” said Rogers who also dismissed the idea that another round of quantitative easing was the answer. “America is making horrible mistakes. It is the largest indebted nation in the world and is going deeper and deeper into debt. The world is not in good shape the markets got to correct and take care of these imbalances,” he said. “The market should be allowed to bottom out. QE1 (the first round of quantitative easing) and QE2 didn’t work. Let the market bottom out as more money printing will just make matters worse” said Rogers. © 2011 CNBC.com URL: www.cnbc.com/id/44030919/this tells the REST of the story: Two government officials tell ABC News that the federal government is expecting and preparing for bond rating agency Standard & Poor’s to downgrade the rating of U.S. debt from its current AAA value. Official reasons given, one official says, will be the political confusion surrounding the process of raising the debt ceiling, and lack of confidence that the political system will be able to agree to more deficit reduction. A source says Republicans saying that they refuse to accept any tax increases as part of a larger deal will be part of the reason cited. The official was unsure if the bond rating would be AA+ or AA.
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rovo
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Post by rovo on Aug 5, 2011 20:08:43 GMT -5
Downgrade announced a short while ago to AA+.
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Aug 5, 2011 20:22:17 GMT -5
The pubs must be proud of the effect they're having on the US, imagine all the damage they could do if they had control of the senate or white house too.
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Post by privateinvestor on Aug 5, 2011 20:27:39 GMT -5
The pubs must be proud of the effect they're having on the US, imagine all the damage they could do if they had control of the senate or white house too. What does a downgrade have to do with the Republicans??? Both parties voted for the so called debt reduction bill that Moody & S&P looked at and still decided to give the Treasury a AA rating instead of a AAA...blaming the repubs makes about as much sense as blaming Bush which you also liked to do but that old dog wont hunt Zippity so come up with a new one Or is is because you still miss Pelsosi as the Speaker of the House pushing her Liberal agenda throught congress?? The U.S. had its AAA credit rating downgraded for the first time by Standard & Poor’s, which slammed the nation’s political process and said lawmakers failed to cut spending enough to reduce record deficits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 20:42:16 GMT -5
My portfolio fell more than that, I wonder how much tax would have to increase in order to lose that amount. This amount would pay at least two year of income tax. I haven’t looked at the combined losses for the week yet. The dumbest think is they actually believe that cutting spending in a recession is a good thing.
First off the "cuts" (which aren't enough to be worthwhile) haven't hit yet. They won't hit for a long time, so that's NOT what made the market drop. What made the market drop is that we are still spending more than we take in. Our cuts were basically NOTHING & do NOTHING to improve our long term debt. So in plain language when you spend more than you make by borrowing money, they will cut you off if you run out & buy a brand new Cadillac. They do that because they know that sooner or later your not going to be able to pay your debt & your not even admitting that there's a problem.
No Txbo I know that you don't believe the above explanation. Your a liberal & that's not what any democrat (liberal) website would say but think about it. Instead of looking at it like a countries finances look at it like your own finances. Could you just keep spending forever? Could you just keep borrowing forever? If you tried that what would happen to your credit rating?
This is pretty simple common sense stuff & we are where we are at for 2 reasons. 1. That insane stimulus package that wasn't aimed at stimulating the economy. It was just a bunch of bills that the democrats couldn't get passed before & probably a few that they threw in on the spur of the moment. That not only didn't stimulate the economy but it also took us both up to the debt ceiling & over the point where our debt was so high that it looked dangerous. 2. The fact that both parties are spending right & left. Both of them have been doing that FOREVER so it's both of thems fault.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 20:47:09 GMT -5
Our cuts were basically NOTHING & do NOTHING to improve our long term debt.
I guess that I should explain this sentence. If you agree to raise the debt ceiling 1 trillion dollars but stipulate that you will cut spending on certain programs over a 10 year period by almost 1 trillion dollars. Well guess what? You aren't really cutting, your just pushing judgement day off for 10 years (unless lenders cut you off, which could happen). Oh & of course your borrowing that 1 Trillion up front so your actually worse off than you would have been if you had just cut spending & not raised the debt ceiling & not had to borrow that 1 trillion.
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Post by privateinvestor on Aug 5, 2011 20:53:06 GMT -5
The action may still hurt the U.S. economy over time by increasing the cost of mortgages, auto loans and other types of lending tied to the interest rates paid on Treasuries. JPMorgan Chase & Co. estimated that a downgrade would raise the nation’s borrowing costs by $100 billion a year.
Meanwhile our congress is on vacation living the good life until next month. And when they return the in fighting and finger pointing will pick up where it left off
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 21:15:29 GMT -5
Meanwhile our congress is on vacation living the good life until next month. And when they return the in fighting and finger pointing will pick up where it left off
At least they just point at each other. Us Americans just get the finger.
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Post by privateinvestor on Aug 5, 2011 21:23:19 GMT -5
Meanwhile our congress is on vacation living the good life until next month. And when they return the in fighting and finger pointing will pick up where it left off At least they just point at each other. Us Americans just get the finger. All the Dems will blame the Tea Party, all the Repubs will blame Obama and Obama will blame both the Dems and the Repubs.. or as they say in ole Beantown this will be a complete circle jerk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2011 21:28:58 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. The current deficit does not show our future liabilities, which is the real issue.
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diamonds
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Post by diamonds on Aug 5, 2011 21:40:52 GMT -5
Our cuts were basically NOTHING & do NOTHING to improve our long term debt.I guess that I should explain this sentence. If you agree to raise the debt ceiling 1 trillion dollars but stipulate that you will cut spending on certain programs over a 10 year period by almost 1 trillion dollars. Well guess what? You aren't really cutting, your just pushing judgement day off for 10 years (unless lenders cut you off, which could happen). Oh & of course your borrowing that 1 Trillion up front so your actually worse off than you would have been if you had just cut spending & not raised the debt ceiling & not had to borrow that 1 trillion. ..... Obvious transparent economics 101.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2011 21:56:24 GMT -5
The pubs must be proud of the effect they're having on the US, imagine all the damage they could do if they had control of the senate or white house too. What does a downgrade have to do with the Republicans??? see post #16
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diamonds
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Post by diamonds on Aug 5, 2011 21:56:46 GMT -5
>>>>What does a downgrade have to do with the Republicans??? Both parties voted for the so called debt reduction bill that Moody & S&P looked at and still decided to give the Treasury a AA rating instead of a AAA...blaming the repubs makes about as much sense as blaming Bush which you also liked to do but that old dog wont hunt Zippity so come up with a new one Or is is because you still miss Pelsosi as the Speaker of the House pushing her Liberal agenda throught congress??<<<<< P.I. ... You're on a roll today! " Sometimes better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to comment and have it confirmed". The far-left liberals cannot help themselves.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2011 22:02:27 GMT -5
>>>>What does a downgrade have to do with the Republicans??? Both parties voted for the so called debt reduction bill that Moody & S&P looked at and still decided to give the Treasury a AA rating instead of a AAA...blaming the repubs makes about as much sense as blaming Bush which you also liked to do but that old dog wont hunt Zippity so come up with a new one Or is is because you still miss Pelsosi as the Speaker of the House pushing her Liberal agenda throught congress??<<<<< P.I. ... You're on a roll today! " Sometimes better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to comment and have it confirmed". The far-left liberals cannot help themselves. i would suggest you hold your praise until you read the opinion by S&P, which far from placing the blame on Pelosi, placed it squarely on Republicans: Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act. Key macroeconomic assumptions in the base case scenario include trend real GDP growth of 3% and consumer price inflation near 2% annually over the decade.
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