weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 3, 2011 15:16:54 GMT -5
"weltschmerz, kind of a snarky comment......Your fitting in just fine around here. " Thank you. I'm trying hard to fit in. For a tree-hugging, socialistic, vegetarian atheist, it hasn't been easy.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 3, 2011 15:18:52 GMT -5
Not quite what you were asking for, but 18-24 yr olds are 91% more likely to identify Communism as an OK or Good form of govt than people 60 yrs or older. Oldtex has a point that statistics can be warped. I disagree that they are meaningless though, statistics & data are extremely meaningful, but you have to understand what a statistic means & how the data was gathered. Unfortunately, most people aren't able to process the facts on that level & end up mislead by accurate statistics. For example, the above statistic (which is true) might leave some thinking that the majority of the younger generation approves of communism as a group & it could definitely be used to mislead people in articles or ad campaigns. I don't know about you, but I don't need a poll to tell me most 18-24 year olds are stupid... Perfect example ed, you fell for the statistic without thinking it through. The statistic is pretty much meaningless without further data. We don't know if 0.2% of 60+ people think communism is good, meaning 0.38% of 18-24 has this belief. Or maybe 42% of 60+ people think communism is good & therefore 80% of 18-24 think it is good. Huge difference between the two possibilities, but the statistic is accurate either way.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 15:20:49 GMT -5
1) most American voters identify themselves as communists. 2) most American voters identify themselves as homosexuals. 3) most American voters favor legalizing child pornography.
i would challenge you to find statistics to back any of those things up.Your ABSOLUTELY RIGHT djlungrot. I should have taken the time to make my statement in depth so that it couldn't be questioned as to what that said statement was & how I was in fact stating it & what I was implying. I'll restate & if you want further clarification, I'll be happy to. I said (paraphrasing here) that you can't count on statistics because they can be made to say anything that you want to. I of course assumed that if you have statistics then someone has done a survey on them. I assumed that anyone reading my post would have known that. I was wrong. I will add that MOST of the time if any kind of a survey was done someone with an agenda would have paid for it. They generally have an agenda before they hire someone to do a survey for them (or do it themselves). They slant the survey to get answers to fulfill their agenda. Like I said just the other day. If a liberal has no ground to stand on then they will nitpick you to death. oh come on, tex. if i took you out of context, I APOLOGIZE. i am not trying to nitpick. i just like statistics, and find them interesting. sorry if i seemed defensive to you. i would agree with what you just said, btw. the book "Who Really Cares" is a case study in manipulating statistics to beat one group down and elevate another.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 3, 2011 15:21:51 GMT -5
Not quite what you were asking for, but 18-24 yr olds are 91% more likely to identify Communism as an OK or Good form of govt than people 60 yrs or older. Oldtex has a point that statistics can be warped. I disagree that they are meaningless though, statistics & data are extremely meaningful, but you have to understand what a statistic means & how the data was gathered. Unfortunately, most people aren't able to process the facts on that level & end up mislead by accurate statistics. For example, the above statistic (which is true) might leave some thinking that the majority of the younger generation approves of communism as a group & it could definitely be used to mislead people in articles or ad campaigns. it is too bad that we don't teach this sort of thing in schools. logic, statistics, and skepticism should be part of general curriculum for all high schooler's. but, of course, that would not create a docile, easily moulded workforce. Agreed. I love data & statistics, but I think most people don't tend to understand what a statistic truly means.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 15:22:35 GMT -5
I don't know about you, but I don't need a poll to tell me most 18-24 year olds are stupid... Perfect example ed, you fell for the statistic without thinking it through. The statistic is pretty much meaningless without further data. We don't know if 0.2% of 60+ people think communism is good, meaning 0.38% of 18-24 has this belief. Or maybe 42% of 60+ people think communism is good & therefore 80% of 18-24 think it is good. Huge difference between the two possibilities, but the statistic is accurate either way. i noticed that, and it is why i didn't comment. comparitive statistics are among the most difficult to comprehend. it is one thing to say "group X feels this way and group Y feels another", it is quite another to say "group X feels 1.91x as strongly as group Y"
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 15:25:11 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Aug 3, 2011 15:26:42 GMT -5
<--- doesn't find high debt and high taxes especially patriotic. Oh, wait, are you even discussing the topic of this thread? ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 15:28:18 GMT -5
do you really want an answer to any of this, or are you just trying to make a point? if it is the latter, i have some other work to do. Just trying to make a point because I though you were trying to nitpick. When I saw your post that you weren't I deleted it. Sorry.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 15:29:58 GMT -5
do you really want an answer to any of this, or are you just trying to make a point? if it is the latter, i have some other work to do.Just trying to make a point because I though you were trying to nitpick. When I saw your post that you weren't I deleted it. Sorry. no problem. i am excessively curious about some things. it comes across the wrong way sometimes.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 3, 2011 16:57:42 GMT -5
...I agree with molly... and I'm patriotic enough already, tyvm... ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 18:33:38 GMT -5
we have twice the population. so about the same number of people are living in poverty now as in the 50's
Just to point out we have different standards of what's considered "poverty" now than we did in the 50's. Way different. Also poverty in an expensive area is above the average income for some of the LCOL areas. It's all relative, but that's not taken into account in studies.
We used to visit the government housing here in town where we live (one of my wife's train wreck friends lived there). Those poor people living in government housing & buying food with their star card (that's what they call them here) were interesting. I found it interesting that most of them drove newer cars than I did & also that about 10% (or more, not less) of those cars cost more than both of our cars would sell for. Of course there could be reasons for that & without making a judgment all I'm saying is that it surprised me a lot.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Aug 3, 2011 18:35:27 GMT -5
...I agree with molly... and I'm patriotic enough already, tyvm... ;D
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 18:35:47 GMT -5
we have twice the population. so about the same number of people are living in poverty now as in the 50'sJust to point out we have different standards of what's considered "poverty" now than we did in the 50's. Way different. Also poverty in an expensive area is above the average income for some of the LCOL areas. It's all relative, but that's not taken into account in studies. i can't really speak to that, because i don't know how the standards have changed. do you?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 3, 2011 18:45:56 GMT -5
we have twice the population. so about the same number of people are living in poverty now as in the 50'sJust to point out we have different standards of what's considered "poverty" now than we did in the 50's. Way different. Also poverty in an expensive area is above the average income for some of the LCOL areas. It's all relative, but that's not taken into account in studies. i can't really speak to that, because i don't know how the standards have changed. do you? ...we have TV now...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 12:47:52 GMT -5
Just to point out we have different standards of what's considered "poverty" now than we did in the 50's. Way different. Also poverty in an expensive area is above the average income for some of the LCOL areas. It's all relative, but that's not taken into account in studies. i can't really speak to that, because i don't know how the standards have changed. do you? Of course the standards have changed. Haven't you noticed?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2011 19:33:56 GMT -5
Just to point out we have different standards of what's considered "poverty" now than we did in the 50's. Way different. Also poverty in an expensive area is above the average income for some of the LCOL areas. It's all relative, but that's not taken into account in studies. i can't really speak to that, because i don't know how the standards have changed. do you? Of course the standards have changed. Haven't you noticed? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. yeah, i guess i have. but i might remind you that i was still an unfertilized egg in the 50's.
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