djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 12:09:18 GMT -5
what do you know? my trusty old clipboard came in handy again. but the story is (18) years old: 1. The U.S. Is Killing Its Young Sorry, but an 18 yr old article is hardly proof that the US is the most dangerous western nation for kids. Given that 1991-1993 were the peak years of US crime rates & we are now down 30-50% in virtually every crime category, I would say the data is outdated & useless for making such bold statements. i checked the data in 2000, and it was still valid. i know for a fact that the poverty rates are still 2x higher here today than anywhere else in the industrialized world. but if it makes you feel better to assume that the data is invaild, go right ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 12:10:09 GMT -5
I'm sure that a lot of liberals will see the conservative site & not believe any of it. My suggestion, cut & paste the names on a web search & see if it isn't actually happening yourself.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 12:12:37 GMT -5
I'm sure that a lot of liberals will see the conservative site & not believe any of it. My suggestion, cut & paste the names on a web search & see if it isn't actually happening yourself. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 12:21:14 GMT -5
djlungrot - part of the problem is that the risk isn't even distributed. My kid is in very little danger of being shot. OTOH yesterday in an apartment complex on the bad side of town two gang-bangers opened fire on a playground full of kids and shot a 75 year old man. Two teenagers from the same family were recently shot and killed in separate gang related incidents. A teenage girl with criminal issues was murdered and a couple of months later a relative of hers was murdered. This is all in the same area. A lot of a child's risk is dependent on location, income and education, which are factors that are parents can influence. The NCCP has great, current statistics on child poverty across the U.S.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 3, 2011 12:25:28 GMT -5
Sorry, but an 18 yr old article is hardly proof that the US is the most dangerous western nation for kids. Given that 1991-1993 were the peak years of US crime rates & we are now down 30-50% in virtually every crime category, I would say the data is outdated & useless for making such bold statements. i checked the data in 2000, and it was still valid. i know for a fact that the poverty rates are still 2x higher here today than anywhere else in the industrialized world. but if it makes you feel better to assume that the data is invaild, go right ahead. 2000 was still 11 years ago. I'm going to assume the data is invalid because, not because it makes me feel better, but because you can't come up with anything newer than from 18 years ago when crime was at its peak. A big part of the study seemed to based on the high crime rates, which are now down 30-50%. I don't see how you can even say the data is still good, when even a quick glance a US crime rates can tell you it isn't. Things have changed a lot in 18 years. You can't say the US is currently the most dangerous western nation & provide 18 year old data to prove this. You want to make such a bold claim, then find some newer data to back it up.
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Post by ed1066 on Aug 3, 2011 12:26:04 GMT -5
This is exactly correct, but organizations like the NAACP, the Democratic Party, ACORN and others have worked very hard and spent a lot of money to convince parents that they can't control those circumstances, that their poverty and lack of opportunity is the fault of the white man, corporations, a racist society and Republicans. As long as the left wing can convince parents that they have no choice but to submit to the rule of big government and stay poor and dependent, then the left gets to retain power...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 12:32:37 GMT -5
i checked the data in 2000, and it was still valid. i know for a fact that the poverty rates are still 2x higher here today than anywhere else in the industrialized world. but if it makes you feel better to assume that the data is invaild, go right ahead. 2000 was still 11 years ago. I'm going to assume the data is invalid because, not because it makes me feel better, but because you can't come up with anything newer than from 18 years ago when crime was at its peak. not only can i- i DID. i pointed out that child poverty is still 2x higher in the US than it is in other industrialized nations. did you miss that?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 12:34:49 GMT -5
You can't say the US is currently the most dangerous western nation & provide 18 year old data to prove this. You want to make such a bold claim, then find some newer data to back it up. i posted one piece of data. i also noted that i verified the data in 2000, which was NOT the worst crime year of the last half century. would you like me to verify any of the other data? i think one or two of them would be fairly easy to do.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 3, 2011 12:55:25 GMT -5
2000 was still 11 years ago. I'm going to assume the data is invalid because, not because it makes me feel better, but because you can't come up with anything newer than from 18 years ago when crime was at its peak. not only can i- i DID. i pointed out that child poverty is still 2x higher in the US than it is in other industrialized nations. did you miss that? Well, for starters the article about the US being so dangerous didn't just cite poverty, but also homicide rates & probably a lot of other stuff if I could actually get ahold of the original report. So, just claiming the data is still correct based on a single factor is ridiculous. Second, child poverty is not 2x higher than "anywhere else in the industrial world" as you claimed. www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_chi_pov-economy-child-povertyA quick look at the list shows we barely beat out the UK & Italy. In fact a total of 10 countries are not below the 2X mark.
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Post by kadee79 on Aug 3, 2011 13:07:59 GMT -5
There is another thing you are leaving out here....population increases since these figures where brought out!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 3, 2011 13:22:35 GMT -5
" Excluding murders & car accidents, hardly indicative of the healthcare system, the US has the highest life expectancy of the industrialized world."
I'm still waiting for proof of the above statement. I suspect I'll be waiting a really long time.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Aug 3, 2011 13:55:31 GMT -5
Not according to any statistic I've ever seen, but even assuming for the moment it's true, it won't be true for very long. In about 20 or so years, I expect to see a drastic drop-off in life expectancy here in the US as more and more people are priced out of health care as costs and premiums continue to soar. Then there are all of those latent illnesses and conditions people currently in their 40's and 50's are suffering from, but avoid seeing the doctor because a) insurance doesn't cover it or b) they're afraid of having the insurance cancelled. By the time they hit 60 or 70, those conditions will have gotten worse, and boom.
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Post by ed1066 on Aug 3, 2011 13:58:06 GMT -5
Liberals are doing a fine job of painting the US as a terrible place to live. It's almost like you all want to leave...LOL!
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Post by Shirina on Aug 3, 2011 14:13:53 GMT -5
LOL! Imagine if you adopted the same attitude about your car.
"Well, I'm hearing all kinds of clanks and grinding noises in my motor, but I better not tell anyone, even my mechanic, because they might think I don't like my car!"
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 14:15:01 GMT -5
Liberals are doing a fine job of painting the US as a terrible place to live. It's almost like you all want to leave...LOL! nobody ever got better by patting themselves on the back.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 14:16:22 GMT -5
LOL! Imagine if you adopted the same attitude about your car. "Well, I'm hearing all kinds of clanks and grinding noises in my motor, but I better not tell anyone, even my mechanic, because they might think I don't like my car!" or how about this one: my brother has a problem with drinking. if i refuse to enable his drinking problem, that shows i don't love him.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 14:17:48 GMT -5
There is another thing you are leaving out here....population increases since these figures where brought out! we have twice the population. so about the same number of people are living in poverty now as in the 50's.
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Post by Shirina on Aug 3, 2011 14:18:20 GMT -5
Equally valid in a round-about sort of way.
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Post by Angel! on Aug 3, 2011 14:19:33 GMT -5
Liberals are doing a fine job of painting the US as a terrible place to live. It's almost like you all want to leave...LOL! What a weird thing to say considering how conservatives keep telling us the country is going to hell. It is almost like the belief that things are a mess in this country isn't limited to just one side of the political spectrum.
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Post by ed1066 on Aug 3, 2011 14:22:16 GMT -5
I can't comment on your intentions, only on the facts...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 14:24:00 GMT -5
not only can i- i DID. i pointed out that child poverty is still 2x higher in the US than it is in other industrialized nations. did you miss that? Well, for starters the article about the US being so dangerous didn't just cite poverty, but also homicide rates & probably a lot of other stuff if I could actually get ahold of the original report. So, just claiming the data is still correct based on a single factor is ridiculous. that would be ridiculous, if i had actually done that. but i didn't. i cited that number to counter your claim that i "can't back any of the data up with anything more recent than 1993". a truer statement is that i DIDN'T.Second, child poverty is not 2x higher than "anywhere else in the industrial world" as you claimed. www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_chi_pov-economy-child-povertyA quick look at the list shows we barely beat out the UK & Italy. In fact a total of 10 countries are not below the 2X mark. i was aware of the UK, but not aware of Italy. the UK is cited in the study for it's child poverty problem, as well. so, fine. the US is simply the worst of all developed nations in terms of child poverty, and about 1.5-2x the average for the industrialized world. my bad.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 14:28:14 GMT -5
Liberals are doing a fine job of painting the US as a terrible place to live. It's almost like you all want to leave...LOL! What a weird thing to say considering how conservatives keep telling us the country is going to hell. It is almost like the belief that things are a mess in this country isn't limited to just one side of the political spectrum. i have been marveling at that all morning.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 14:34:00 GMT -5
That's funny....I searched and searched and NOWHERE does it say that the US has the highest life expectancy on earth. Maybe you have a secret source? From FOX, perhaps? Maybe you heard it from Rush or Glenn?weltschmerz, kind of a snarky comment......Your fitting in just fine around here. People statistics mean NOTHING. Anybody can find a statistic to back up anything that they want to back up. Any statistic gotten from any political party will ALWAYS back up their ideas. To think that it won't is to be naive enough to believe in the Easter Bunny. For Instance: (& I've posted this before) The area with the highest hospital heart attack survival ratio is where my wife grew up (something like 90% of people live). Now if you see that statistic you have to believe that they have some state of the art ultra fine hospitals with top notch people working there. Right? Well what they have is a 90 minute drive to the nearest hospital. If your having a bad heart attack, you never make the hospital (you die on the way). Hell if you didn't go to the hospital at all the odds are that you would live. See....It's all how you slant the "statistics". It's the info (like question wording) that you don't see. Statistics are worth less than nothing.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 14:43:33 GMT -5
That's funny....I searched and searched and NOWHERE does it say that the US has the highest life expectancy on earth. Maybe you have a secret source? From FOX, perhaps? Maybe you heard it from Rush or Glenn?weltschmerz, kind of a snarky comment......Your fitting in just fine around here. People statistics mean NOTHING. Anybody can find a statistic to back up anything that they want to back up. totally untrue. i can give you an example of some assertions that cannot be bourne out by statistics: 1) most American voters identify themselves as communists. 2) most American voters identify themselves as homosexuals. 3) most American voters favor legalizing child pornography. i would challenge you to find statistics to back any of those things up. now, if what you are saying is that you should view statistics skeptically, you will not find me disagreeing. but simply dismissing statistics as a lie is to declare belief and reason equally valid.
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 3, 2011 14:58:49 GMT -5
That's funny....I searched and searched and NOWHERE does it say that the US has the highest life expectancy on earth. Maybe you have a secret source? From FOX, perhaps? Maybe you heard it from Rush or Glenn?
weltschmerz, kind of a snarky comment......Your fitting in just fine around here.
People statistics mean NOTHING. Anybody can find a statistic to back up anything that they want to back up. Any statistic gotten from any political party will ALWAYS back up their ideas. To think that it won't is to be naive enough to believe in the Easter Bunny. For Instance: (& I've posted this before) Does the CIA have a political party? The CIA world factbook lists the US 50th in life expectancy at birth. www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 3, 2011 15:08:52 GMT -5
1) most American voters identify themselves as communists. Not quite what you were asking for, but 18-24 yr olds are 91% more likely to identify Communism as an OK or Good form of govt than people 60 yrs or older. Oldtex has a point that statistics can be warped. I disagree that they are meaningless though, statistics & data are extremely meaningful, but you have to understand what a statistic means & how the data was gathered. Unfortunately, most people aren't able to process the facts on that level & end up mislead by accurate statistics. For example, the above statistic (which is true) might leave some thinking that the majority of the younger generation approves of communism as a group & it could definitely be used to mislead people in articles or ad campaigns.
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Post by ed1066 on Aug 3, 2011 15:10:09 GMT -5
1) most American voters identify themselves as communists. Not quite what you were asking for, but 18-24 yr olds are 91% more likely to identify Communism as an OK or Good form of govt than people 60 yrs or older. Oldtex has a point that statistics can be warped. I disagree that they are meaningless though, statistics & data are extremely meaningful, but you have to understand what a statistic means & how the data was gathered. Unfortunately, most people aren't able to process the facts on that level & end up mislead by accurate statistics. For example, the above statistic (which is true) might leave some thinking that the majority of the younger generation approves of communism as a group & it could definitely be used to mislead people in articles or ad campaigns. I don't know about you, but I don't need a poll to tell me most 18-24 year olds are stupid...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 15:11:44 GMT -5
1) most American voters identify themselves as communists. Not quite what you were asking for, but 18-24 yr olds are 91% more likely to identify Communism as an OK or Good form of govt than people 60 yrs or older. Oldtex has a point that statistics can be warped. I disagree that they are meaningless though, statistics & data are extremely meaningful, but you have to understand what a statistic means & how the data was gathered. Unfortunately, most people aren't able to process the facts on that level & end up mislead by accurate statistics. For example, the above statistic (which is true) might leave some thinking that the majority of the younger generation approves of communism as a group & it could definitely be used to mislead people in articles or ad campaigns. it is too bad that we don't teach this sort of thing in schools. logic, statistics, and skepticism should be part of general curriculum for all high schooler's. but, of course, that would not create a docile, easily moulded workforce.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 3, 2011 15:13:12 GMT -5
That's funny....I searched and searched and NOWHERE does it say that the US has the highest life expectancy on earth. Maybe you have a secret source? From FOX, perhaps? Maybe you heard it from Rush or Glenn?
weltschmerz, kind of a snarky comment......Your fitting in just fine around here.
People statistics mean NOTHING. Anybody can find a statistic to back up anything that they want to back up. Any statistic gotten from any political party will ALWAYS back up their ideas. To think that it won't is to be naive enough to believe in the Easter Bunny. For Instance: (& I've posted this before) Does the CIA have a political party? The CIA world factbook lists the US 50th in life expectancy at birth. www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.htmlanother poster said 30th- so it is somewhere in that range.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 15:15:34 GMT -5
1) most American voters identify themselves as communists. 2) most American voters identify themselves as homosexuals. 3) most American voters favor legalizing child pornography.
i would challenge you to find statistics to back any of those things up.
Your ABSOLUTELY RIGHT djlungrot. I should have taken the time to make my statement in depth so that it couldn't be questioned as to what that said statement was & how I was in fact stating it & what I was implying. I'll restate & if you want further clarification, I'll be happy to.
I said (paraphrasing here) that you can't count on statistics because they can be made to say anything that you want to. I of course assumed that if you have statistics then someone has done a survey on them. I assumed that anyone reading my post would have known that. I was wrong. I will add that MOST of the time if any kind of a survey was done someone with an agenda would have paid for it. They generally have an agenda before they hire someone to do a survey for them (or do it themselves). They slant the survey to get answers to fulfill their agenda.
Like I said just the other day. If a liberal has no ground to stand on then they will nitpick you to death.
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