Who own America? Hint, not china..

[deziloooooo]

July 21st, 2011
04:30 PM ET
Who owns America? Hint: It's not China

Editor's Note: The following piece comes from Global Post, which provides excellent coverage of world news - important, moving and odd.

By Tom Mucha, Global Post

Truth is elusive. But it's a good thing we have math.

Our friends at Business Insider know this, and put those two principles to work today in this excellent and highly informative little slideshow, made even more timely by the ongoing talks in Washington, D.C. aimed at staving off a U.S. debt default.

Here's the big idea:
Many people — politicians and pundits alike — prattle on that China and, to a lesser extent Japan, own most of America's $14.3 trillion in government debt.

But there's one little problem with that conventional wisdom: it's just not true. While the Chinese, Japanese and plenty of other foreigners own substantial amounts, it's really Americans who hold most of America's debt.

Here's a quick and fascinating breakdown by total amount held and percentage of total U.S. debt, according to Business Insider:



•Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
•Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)
•Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
•Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
•Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
•Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)
•Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
•State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
•Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)
•United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
•Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
•State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
•Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
•U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
•China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)
•The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
•Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)
So America owes foreigners about $4.5 trillion in debt. But America owes America $9.8 trillion

[djAdvocate]

i knew that, actually.

so by defaulting, it is mostly Americans that will be hurt.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jul 26, 2011 0:00:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i knew that, actually.

so by defaulting, it is mostly Americans that will be hurt.

...or helped... some bond holders might like the larger yield on their EE and I bonds...

...and "default" doesn't have to be a choice, in this case...

[Value Buy]

Maybe we can have them all take a haircut on their stakes like the European Union is teling the bondhlders of Greek debt.
The US Tresaury debt is slightly rated above the old Enron stock certificates, imo. Looks great on paper, but upon actual due diligence, just a smoke and mirror game

[fairlycrazy23]

China is still very high on the list, only the US Treasury and SS hold more. And is that really the US Treasury? or is it the FED?

And a quick and dirty solution to the debt ceiling problem would be for the FED to simply cancel/give back/destroy some of there 1.6 trillion.

They pretty much just printed the money to buy them anyway.

The fed forgives there 1.6 trillion and all of a sudden we have a new 1.6 trillion we can borrow.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

There will be no default. We default if the $29 billion in interest due next month is not paid. Plenty of cash coming in to make these payments.

[Deleted]

i knew that, actually.

so by defaulting, it is mostly Americans that will be hurt.

A default could be a payment that's made but made late. Default means that the payment wasn't made on time.

But your right either way, Mostly Americans will be hurt by a default. Just like mostly Americans will be hurt if congress isn't forced to cut spending.

[deziloooooo]

Jul 26, 2011 9:30:21 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

There will be no default. We default if the $29 billion in interest due next month is not paid. Plenty of cash coming in to make these payments.

Ok but then what about federal salaries, SS, Medicare, Medicaid , Rx part D payments..the fuel bills for our ships, Navy, Airforce, the food to feed our Armed Forces, the controllers in the airports, mail deliveries, contractors in Afghanistan, foreign aid, products ordered by the government..all those expenses..are these people sent home, are services stopped, people have to work but get IOU's for the back pay not paid, and if SS not paid, then rents and mortgage payments not made, remember it was reported that 50 % or some un godly # of Americans don't have $2000 in he bank, buried in the back yard, under the pillow as savings..what about food, electric, gas bills, filling up the car if $ is not sent, insurance policies, how about the automatic payments for Medicare now deducted from SS payments..if those funds are not sent out..there is more then just the interest to be paid.

What if your company if you work for someone else, not getting a needed business loan, thus having to lay you off, and no $ to pay unemployment or if you personally are fine, how about your off spring, your neighbor, brother, sister, children who are working..

phew and I left off so much more.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 26, 2011 9:53:42 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

i knew that, actually.

so by defaulting, it is mostly Americans that will be hurt.

A default could be a payment that's made but made late. Default means that the payment wasn't made on time.

But your right either way, Mostly Americans will be hurt by a default. Just like mostly Americans will be hurt if congress isn't forced to cut spending.

many will be hurt if they DO, as well.

message here: folks are going to get hurt.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 26, 2011 9:30:21 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

There will be no default. We default if the $29 billion in interest due next month is not paid. Plenty of cash coming in to make these payments.

it is $100B on August 4th. and it very much depends on what cash flow is during the first week of August.

[Value Buy]

Jul 26, 2011 11:20:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 26, 2011 9:30:21 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

There will be no default. We default if the $29 billion in interest due next month is not paid. Plenty of cash coming in to make these payments.

it is $100B on August 4th. and it very much depends on what cash flow is during the first week of August.

August 3rd is SS, 29 billion.
The first bond payment date after that is less than that.
There is another payment later in the month, I believe somewhere, around maybe 50 billion.

Now we might have to cut off some foundations and University grants for snails, but that is not the end of the world.
It might be for the foundations, etc, but not for the country. Remember, everyone has to share the pain. Let's start with the freeloaders.

[deziloooooo]

Jul 26, 2011 11:25:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 26, 2011 11:20:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it is $100B on August 4th. and it very much depends on what cash flow is during the first week of August.

August 3rd is SS, 29 billion.
The first bond payment date after that is less than that.
There is another payment later in the month, I believe somewhere, around maybe 50 billion.

Now we might have to cut off some foundations and University grants for snails, but that is not the end of the world.
It might be for the foundations, etc, but not for the country. Remember, everyone has to share the pain. Let's start with the freeloaders.

Value if it was snails and freeloaders, a guarantee of, then In am with you , however, if one hasn't the money to pay or the way to get loans..with out paying through the nose for them..these other debts and obligations , see my post above, are you saying they will be paid...and if so, how can you be so sure..I am not trying to argue with you , just brining up ideas of , these are actual needs that have to be addressed.

If not these specifically then others that I haven't a clue about..these are ones a neophyte thinks of off the top of ones head.

I am sure there are cancellation penalties on many of them, just the contractors we employ, legal contracts signed, such as cancellation penalties alone....

[skweet]

Jul 26, 2011 9:30:21 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

There will be no default. We default if the $29 billion in interest due next month is not paid. Plenty of cash coming in to make these payments.

This is not necessarily true, which is why there is a certain amount of risk, if an acceptable deal is not reached. The Tea Partiers are holding out for no limit increase (I agree in principle), but the reality is that this COULD lead to default. Boehner is working on a deal that could pass both houses and put Obama under extreme pressure to not Veto, but he COULD veto and we COULD default. All of these COULDS seem ridiculous to most level-headed people, but the President is not in that category. Remember how much respect Obama gives to creditors. Remember how he turned bankruptcy law on it's head, immediately following his election. Remember how creditors used to have priority in the US, and now take a back seat when Obama is involved. He has not stated that the US will not default, if the debt limit is not increased, in fact he continually says it will default. He has the right to make that choice. Level headed pundits, congressman, businessman and citizens think that he will delay and furlow and make the reasonably easy decisions to keep our credit intack. But he says, and has proven that he won't, necessarily make the reasonable decision, according to historical respect of creditors. Be afraid.

[humok]

I agree skweet...people should be very afraid and be getting prepared...Lets say they do default and our rating is dropped, people will lose they jobs very quickly and homes, condo's etc.....It could, and probably will, get ugly really fast but you just cannot convince people.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

[Value Buy]

Jul 26, 2011 12:51:42 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Jul 26, 2011 11:25:15 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

August 3rd is SS, 29 billion.
The first bond payment date after that is less than that.
There is another payment later in the month, I believe somewhere, around maybe 50 billion.

Now we might have to cut off some foundations and University grants for snails, but that is not the end of the world.
It might be for the foundations, etc, but not for the country. Remember, everyone has to share the pain. Let's start with the freeloaders.

Value if it was snails and freeloaders, a guarantee of, then In am with you , however, if one hasn't the money to pay or the way to get loans..with out paying through the nose for them..these other debts and obligations , see my post above, are you saying they will be paid...and if so, how can you be so sure..I am not trying to argue with you , just brining up ideas of , these are actual needs that have to be addressed.

If not these specifically then others that I haven't a clue about..these are ones a neophyte thinks of off the top of ones head.

I am sure there are cancellation penalties on many of them, just the contractors we employ, legal contracts signed, such as cancellation penalties alone....

Dezi, you, I, and Henry are old enough to remember what I am about to write, but many here, it is all old history, and sketchy thoughts to be ignored........

Bottom line-this all really kicked into high gear with Lyndon Johnson's Great Society program(s).
Those programs should have been a success. All they were were programs, under funded or not funded programs paid for by stealing from Peter to pay Paul (Social Security fund)
It was the start of largesse by Government fiat, in peacetime, not seen since the Great Depession. This largesse should have been buried by Carter, Reagan, Bush I and Clinton, and all the Congresses in session under their terms.
Congress was more than happy to ADD TO THE PERKS instead of cutting them.
It has to stop.
It has to stop now.

[Value Buy]

Oh and as to the premise of this thread, we need Woody Guthrie's
homage, "This land is your Land". How is that coming from a Conservative Republican?
Why?
Because this is no longer "our land".