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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:13:20 GMT -5
ETA is "edited to add" ...and I don't know many Republicans who want all safety nets abolished... but definitely reformed, and a lot of them abolished... ...and I don't understand why many Liberals want so many safety nets untouched... as if they don't think the first 100yrs of the USA standard of governance created an okay place to live or something... aside from some of our obvious differences, such as slavery and the Air Force...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:14:51 GMT -5
...oops... didn't see that there... stupid refresh button...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 27, 2011 17:49:49 GMT -5
ETA is "edited to add" ...and I don't know many Republicans who want all safety nets abolished... but definitely reformed, and a lot of them abolished... ...and I don't understand why many Liberals want so many safety nets untouched... as if they don't think the first 100yrs of the USA standard of governance created an okay place to live or something... aside from some of our obvious differences, such as slavery and the Air Force... and blacks, and women, and gays, and children and......
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 27, 2011 17:56:12 GMT -5
i don't know what ETA is.....but........ i think there is absolutely a direct lineage between modern liberals and 1776 liberals. and i think there is absolutely a lineage between modern conservatives and 1776 conservatives. HOWEVER, i think that modern conservatives are approximately where 1776 liberals were. i say approximately because they are clearly more liberal in some ways, and less in others. Liberals from 1776 equate much more closely to libertarians of today. perhaps, but not Libertarians. for example, Adam Smith believed that private property should be solely owned to the degree a person created it. therefore, he didn't see land itself as something that anything other than a nation could own. Jefferson didn't believe that corporations should be allowed to exist for anything other than public tasks that were too large for individuals to undertake, and should be abolished thereafter. he also believed that standing armies were an impediment to freedom, and should not exist during peacetime, and only by a well regulated militia during wartime. Rosseau believed that society had an obligation to make sure that the spoils of a nation would not leave the poor destitute due to naturally occurring inequalities of wealth. all of this group believed that organized religion with state power would invariably lead to authoritarianism and loss of freedom. etc. etc. etc. Libertarians don't believe in any of things.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 27, 2011 17:57:18 GMT -5
I think a lot of liberals would like to see some work done on some of the safety nets, as well. While they're needed, they're supposed to be there for those who really do need them, not for those who simply don't want to make any effort for themselves. I really don't think there are many people of either persuasion who'd argue otherwise.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jul 27, 2011 20:41:54 GMT -5
"You never thought that hip hop would take it this far Now I'm in the limelight 'cause I rhyme tight Time to get paid, blow up like the World Trade Born sinner, the opposite of a winner "
Notorious BIG, 1994
First bombing of the WTC happened in 1993 and terrorism continued the entire time Clinton was getting his knob polished.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 27, 2011 21:02:27 GMT -5
"You never thought that hip hop would take it this far Now I'm in the limelight 'cause I rhyme tight Time to get paid, blow up like the World TradeBorn sinner, the opposite of a winner " Notorious BIG, 1994 First bombing of the WTC happened in 1993 and terrorism continued the entire time Clinton was getting his knob polished. it has continued and accelerated since 2001, as well. that is why the CIA stopped publishing the statistics. they are embarrassing. if the war on terror is over, we lost.
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Post by ed1066 on Jul 27, 2011 22:42:26 GMT -5
if the war on terror is over, we lost. Yay! That was one of the goals of the left, right?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 27, 2011 22:56:27 GMT -5
... First bombing of the WTC happened in 1993 and terrorism continued the entire time Clinton was getting his knob polished. And: On December 21, 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 heading from London's Heathrow International Airport to New York Kennedy International Airport exploded en route over Lockerbie, Scotland. The flight originated in Frankfurt, Germany, which was where explosives –packed into passenger luggage—were placed onto the flight after being ferried to Frankfurt on a flight from Malta. The explosion killed all 259 of the passengers and crew, as well as 11 residents of Lockerbie. terrorism.about.com/od/originshistory/p/PanAmBombing.htm So how far back shall we go? Beirut in 1983 under Reagan? Iran in 1979 under Carter?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2011 11:31:16 GMT -5
if the war on terror is over, we lost. Yay! That was one of the goals of the left, right? you seem to know more about the left than i do, ed. ask yourself.
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Post by magichat on Jul 28, 2011 11:34:44 GMT -5
How far back, only as far as you need to keep your argument shielded and logical. ;D
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