Has Obamacare hurt the recovery?

[Deleted]

I saw this interesting article about the recovery. Thought that it might make an interesting discussion. Just for once it might be fun to discuss (argue) without quoting party lines.

www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/analysis-job-growth-was-10-fold-higher-democrats-passed-obamacare_577232.html

Sherk then provides the following chart, showing that prior to the first full month in which Obamacare was law (April 2010), the economy added an average of 67,600 jobs per month during Obama’s presidency (which includes several months during the recession). Following the first full month in which Obamacare was law, however, the economy has added an average of just 6,400 jobs per month under Obama’s presidency — less than one-tenth the previous rate.

[formerexpat]

Businesses are still trying to decipher the impact to them from this legislation.

As a result, they will delay at least some plans to hire people, invest in their business, etc, until they can fully grasp the impact to them.

At least accountants and lawyers are getting work en masse to help business owners figure all this shit out.

[Deleted]

Businesses are still trying to decipher the impact to them from this legislation.

As a result, they will delay at least some plans to hire people, invest in their business, etc, until they can fully grasp the impact to them.

formerexpat, if your right (& this is all speculation) I would think that larger businesses would have their legal teams looking at it. Smaller businesses couldn't afford that so (my guess) they probably just wouldn't hire anyone until it's clear what the results would be. That would delay them hiring for a long time.

[handyman2]

Hey Tex: Larger corporations are looking at it and are re-evaluating their whole benefits programs because of it. Trying to sort out all the where-asis is quite a challange. Some of the provisions of Obama-care are quite merky as to how they will be implimented.

[ungenteel]

What recovery? The right toasted our economy when Gramm pushed through Gramm, Leach Bliley and paved the way for unbridled greed to wreck our financial system ... that was on top of rightie politicians fighting two wars (one a war of choice) and not having the fiscal responsibility to fund the war with the necessary increase in revenues to pay for the wars

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...so much for not spouting party lines, huh?


...and yes, I'm seeing employers' reaction as very, very cautious as they figure out how to navigate from now to then...

[henryclay]

Has Obamacare hurt, (slowed), the recovery?

The law was passed without anyone reading it. The law itself in 2700 pages. It is fraught with fines and penalties. Have there been any federal enabling regulations/guidelines published so that each of 50 states, plus some territories, can enact their own state laws and formulate their own enabling guidelines/regulations? What additional fines and penalties are they free, or required to impose? What latitude do they have to invalidate federal fines and penalties? What must a multi-state business do in order to meet Obamacare requirements in the different states where it does business? i.e. Will what they do in their Ohio operations meet the requirements for Texas operations, and how do they administer them? For instance. . . .

What is an "Exchange"? Do they serve to ensure patient care, or do they serve in a fiduciary capacity for payers? How many exchanges are required per state? Who do they report to? What do they report? Who will staff and administer them? What medical field knowledge is required to properly function as an "exchange"? How do "exchanges" effect the medical care providers in their delivery of that medical care? How do they staff sufficient specialists when there are insufficient applicants AND a shortage of laboratory equipment and trained people to do so? Howw will exchange bottlenecks affect the delivery of medical care?

Unless someone here can rattle off seamless responses to these, , , and countless other questions, I believe the answer to "whether Obamacare has hurt the recovery" should be obvious. How can it be otherwise?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...not to mention that in our consumer spending driven economy, consumer confidence (and spending) is crucial... and, imo, this act was a "tipping point" of sorts to dethrone the free market, such as it was... so many consumers no longer feel free to make future plans... and so slows commerce... and so goes the world...

[tbop77]

BTDT---"consumer spending driver economy"---

Most of which in the glory days of the early 2000's was based on credit. That ship has sailed.

Hiring is based on demand for products/services--my company has added 5 people to our payroll during the period referred to in the article and I cannot remember any meetings I attended to "figure this shit out"---so to speak.

I will add one note. Most of the larger corporations that we sell to, TELL us, "our terms are changed to 60 days", which generally means we do not receive our money for 70-75 days.....I noticed this trend at the beginning of 2010. And this is killing the small business owners that I speak too. So seems to me the lawyers and accountants have been busy "figuring shit out"

[privateinvestor]

Has Obamacare hurt the recovery?

If you believe Steve Wynn and other leaders of Big Business the answer is a resounding YES!!

If you don't believe Steve Wynn and other leaders of Big Business then perhaps you might want to ask the Small Business Owners if they think Obamacare hurt the recovery and they will also say YES!!


www.bnet.com/blog/ceo/steve-wynns-anti-obama-rant-is-he-right/7976

[tbop77]

Yeah, I'm sure you are correct P.I.
For an example, the company that I work for had 1MM accrued for bonus for upper management in 2008, last year just a paltry $557,000.

I am sure they are feeling the pain!

[privateinvestor]

Last week, Whole Foods CEO John Mackey wrote a gutsy and possibly ill-conceived op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal. In The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare, Mackey named “Eight things we can do to improve health care without adding to the deficit.” Sounds great, right? Well, yes and no.

By taking on ObamaCare and pushing for less government, Mackey may have risked harming his company’s business by angering its traditionally left-leaning customer base. The blogosphere is having a field day amidst calls for boycotting Whole Foods:

In Is John Mackey Clueless About Whole Foods’ Customer Base?, BNET Food blogger Katherine Glover wrote:

[deziloooooo]

I do love "whole Foods "..however, who can afford to shop there?..Last time I was there, I do go occasionally for baked goods and some odd ball things..I couldn't get over how the meat cases were just filled with the most beautiful cuts and trimmed products from the steaks and chops..out standing , which means they are selling these things but the prices..$19 per lb and other such costs..give me a break

Since even the shopping carts are smaller I expect they don't expect hugh purchases by customers..not saying their products aren't good products but for the average shopper, except for that occasional special meal..no way the average person can afford to shop there..and no I am not really hurting that way but still, there are limits.

[rileyoday]

In WV when and if a company can add to or increase his business he does not spend time trying to figure what his future health care cost MIGHT be . He hires.

[998fbird]

IMPO it healthcare reform isn't the problem, it is just a convenient excuse for the large corporations to use as a ploy to continue to hold onto the large cash reserves and drive their current workforce into more and more favorable positions for management vs. labor.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 23, 2011 17:55:10 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Businesses are still trying to decipher the impact to them from this legislation.

As a result, they will delay at least some plans to hire people, invest in their business, etc, until they can fully grasp the impact to them.

At least accountants and lawyers are getting work en masse to help business owners figure all this shit out.

businesses that have health plans will see little or no impact whatsoever. that would be the vast majority of businesses.

but yes, the ones that are still sitting on the sidelines have a few things to think about.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jul 24, 2011 14:03:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 23, 2011 17:55:10 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Businesses are still trying to decipher the impact to them from this legislation.

As a result, they will delay at least some plans to hire people, invest in their business, etc, until they can fully grasp the impact to them.

At least accountants and lawyers are getting work en masse to help business owners figure all this shit out.

businesses that have health plans will see little or no impact whatsoever. that would be the vast majority of businesses.

but yes, the ones that are still sitting on the sidelines have a few things to think about.

...and here I would disagree... because in my experience, I can think of at least 3 of my former employers who will likely be dropping their group plan "on schedule" and upping their wages... while employees will just join the public rolls, if they hadn't already...

[Deleted]

This is just a personal comment & I don't know if it transfers to business or not but: Back when I was working if the economy sucked I tended to hold money. Understand here I was in the military & had (more or less) & work contract so I was going to have a job & was going to get paid. Yet during bad economic times I still held cash. I wonder....

1. Do businesses do the same? Maybe not because of Obamacare but just because the economy is so bad (which one would assume would lower the demand for their product.

2. Is that part of the problem that those people with money are holding it?

[ungenteel]

<<Just for once it might be fun to discuss (argue) without quoting party lines. >>

Are you effing stupid??? ... You use, what is essentially, a pejorative like "Obamacare" and then use this whiney comment like "discuss (argue) without quoting party lines"

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jul 24, 2011 19:14:58 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

This is just a personal comment & I don't know if it transfers to business or not but: Back when I was working if the economy sucked I tended to hold money. Understand here I was in the military & had (more or less) & work contract so I was going to have a job & was going to get paid. Yet during bad economic times I still held cash. I wonder....

1. Do businesses do the same? Maybe not because of Obamacare but just because the economy is so bad (which one would assume would lower the demand for their product.

2. Is that part of the problem that those people with money are holding it?

...imo, it can certainly apply to businesses... maybe more so to smaller businesses, but applicable just the same...

[Deleted]

You use, what is essentially, a pejorative like "Obamacare" and then use this whiney comment like "discuss (argue) without quoting party lines"

By party lines I mean to at least transfer what you were told by your party (either democrat or republican) into your own words. Some here both type & read a script.

Are you effing stupid???

They never found the body of the last guy to say that to me so I'm either smart or just able to play hide & seek REALLY well.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Ungenteel:

Phrases like "Are you effing stupid???" when directed toward another poster are inflammatory, inappropriate, and insulting.

Knock that off.

[henryclay]

What does "party lines" and politics have to do with implementing Obamacare?

That is, , , for anybody who is subject to Obamacare, anyway? The only politics I see in implementing Obamacare is that the only exceptions, (waivers), to Obamacare are all Democratic party loyalists.

But if I missed any Republican waivers I'm sure I'll be corrected.

Edited: I wonder if anyone can speak for the those who have Onamacare waivers. I mean, does anybody know whether Obamacare has had any effect on their recovery, , , , or even whether they had anything to recover from?

[formerexpat]

businesses that have health plans will see little or no impact whatsoever. that would be the vast majority of businesses.

I didn't realize businesses were able to avoid the taxes & fees embedded in Obamacare - please do tell how they've accomplished that one.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 24, 2011 20:22:37 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

businesses that have health plans will see little or no impact whatsoever. that would be the vast majority of businesses.

I didn't realize businesses were able to avoid the taxes & fees embedded in Obamacare - please do tell how they've accomplished that one.

what taxes and fees?

[diamonds]

Just shoot Pelosi an e-mail with your questions. Wasn't she the one that said "you'll have to pass it before you find out what's in it?" She was Obama's right hand man, and wonder how many of them behind closed doors actually read the 2700 pages. I never heard one doctor say when it was being written they were in favor of it. They could have just tweaked and updated what was in place already and saved a fivolous bottom line cost of apporoximately 800 billion or more to the deficit, just to have his name tacked onto a piece of legislation.

[diamonds]

Jul 24, 2011 8:30:20 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Has Obamacare hurt the recovery?

If you believe Steve Wynn and other leaders of Big Business the answer is a resounding YES!!

If you don't believe Steve Wynn and other leaders of Big Business then perhaps you might want to ask the Small Business Owners if they think Obamacare hurt the recovery and they will also say YES!!


www.bnet.com/blog/ceo/steve-wynns-anti-obama-rant-is-he-right/7976

.... I'm with you there, excellent!

[djAdvocate]

Jul 24, 2011 23:35:35 GMT -5 diamonds said:

Just shoot Pelosi an e-mail with your questions.

no thanks. i would rather ask formerexpat, since he was the one making the claim. i have enough to do worrying about my OWN claims.

but if you would rather take a shot: what taxes and fees was he talking about?

[djAdvocate]

Jul 24, 2011 14:46:01 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Jul 24, 2011 14:03:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

businesses that have health plans will see little or no impact whatsoever. that would be the vast majority of businesses.

but yes, the ones that are still sitting on the sidelines have a few things to think about.

...and here I would disagree... because in my experience, I can think of at least 3 of my former employers who will likely be dropping their group plan "on schedule" and upping their wages... while employees will just join the public rolls, if they hadn't already...

i have heard that too. i think that might be to make them eligible for the exchanges which KICK ARSE as far as i can tell. you can't enter them if you are already carrying a plan, tho. it may end up being a very smart move for them- but not one i am willing to take. having my employees self insure gives them one less reason to work for me.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 24, 2011 19:15:55 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

<<Just for once it might be fun to discuss (argue) without quoting party lines. >>

Are you effing stupid??? ... You use, what is essentially, a pejorative like "Obamacare" and then use this whiney comment like "discuss (argue) without quoting party lines"

don't worry. after everyone adopts Obamacare and decides they love it, they will go back to calling it the ASA. ;]