djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2011 23:46:44 GMT -5
"......... i think this would be a GREAT time to debate national priorities. but we are too busy bickering about general principles. ....." Maybe not everyone is too busy, dj. Why not you lead off and see if you can get something going. I'll help. The government should not spend any more money in peacetime than it takes in. And in time of war, the government should not expand old social programs or start new ones. The government should never take the earnings from some Americans and give them to any other HEALTHY Anybody. i would be happy to do that, henry. but i have to go read some Johnathan Swift to my 11 year old. ;] remind me tomorrow? ?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 25, 2011 7:16:07 GMT -5
It's now tomorrow, dj. There may be some baited breaths waiting for your lead on prioritizing Washington's spending. In the meantime, my talk show travels this morning have disclosed that the 4PM Sunday deadline the White House advertised was a manufactured deadline intended only to put pressure on the cut cap and balance initiative, (Republications), and was just one more example of negotiating with jello.
And, ta-DAAAAA, what is all the hulla-baloo over August 2nd? Someone is floating a "rumor" that Obama has a reservation on Martha's vineyard for a vacation, beginning sometime the first week in August.
August 2nd comes on Tuesday, the first week in August.
And, , , , if nobody else noticed, there was no, nil, zip, nada movement over the weekend on the debt limit talks. It looks like Obama may have met his match in bluff calling. Let the jello just melt and then pour it down the drain.
But ccut spending first.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 25, 2011 7:42:09 GMT -5
President Obama was foolish to enter into the talks in the first place. He should have held to the line that Congress has a job to do and they need to do it.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 25, 2011 7:53:43 GMT -5
Agreed, billis. Too often, I think, President Obama is a little too naive for his own (and everyone else's) good.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 25, 2011 7:54:42 GMT -5
"......... i think this would be a GREAT time to debate national priorities. but we are too busy bickering about general principles. ....." Maybe not everyone is too busy, dj. Why not you lead off and see if you can get something going. I'll help. The government should not spend any more money in peacetime than it takes in. And in time of war, the government should not expand old social programs or start new ones. The government should never take the earnings from some Americans and give them to any other HEALTHY Anybody. i would be happy to do that, henry. but i have to go read some Johnathan Swift to my 11 year old. ;] remind me tomorrow? ? Awwww. I remember those sweet times, dj.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 25, 2011 8:37:31 GMT -5
Well, all the politicians in D.C. predicted the markets would fall apart this morning, here and in Europe, due to no settlement on the issue... They were wrong. Again. Time to reduce spending, and not raise taxes.
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Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Jul 25, 2011 8:49:16 GMT -5
Value Buy - Haven't you read the latest Newspeak memo? They're called revenue raisers now, not tax increases.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 25, 2011 8:57:23 GMT -5
Value Buy - Haven't you read the latest Newspeak memo? They're called revenue raisers now, not tax increases. Yes, you are correct. Here in Indiana, they did not raise taxes, but anyone having anything to do with the Court system, at any level, will find they are inundated in fees for everything that involves them........thereby taking the bill off the county/state level to the individual, whether they can afford it or not.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 25, 2011 9:04:14 GMT -5
... anyone having anything to do with the Court system, at any level, will find they are inundated in fees for everything that involves them........thereby taking the bill off the county/state level to the individual, whether they can afford it or not. So they don't use a system in which people pay into the court system according to their ability to pay and receive services according to their need?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 25, 2011 9:11:47 GMT -5
... anyone having anything to do with the Court system, at any level, will find they are inundated in fees for everything that involves them........thereby taking the bill off the county/state level to the individual, whether they can afford it or not. So they don't use a system in which people pay into the court system according to their ability to pay and receive services according to their need? NO. You owe the full amount. If you are ordered to attend any Government feel good intervention programs, etc, usually operated by politico connected people, you pay the full amount or are pulled into collection, or found in contempt. Programs the state or county used to pay for (which they are demanding you attend) are now paid by the party ordered to attend. Now, I realize if you are found "guilty", or told to attend and the charges wil be removed upon completion, etc, should not necessarily be paid by the Government, the truth is most offenders cannot meet the payments.
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Post by rockon on Jul 25, 2011 9:22:15 GMT -5
Probably plenty of politics going on from both sides. Both sides want to ultimately claim a victory for coming up with the solution and Obama probably thought he could appear to show leadership by having the negotiations happen at the Whitehouse instead of where they should have happened. Boerhner probably became frustrated with working on something that was going nowhere and decided he could reclaim his leadership role by moving the negotiations back to congress where they should have been this entire time. At least the Republicans have offered some plans that have been shot down on arrival by the President and the Democrat majority in congress. The Democrats keep repeating their "bottom lines" but have produced nothing in terms of a plan that I am aware of. Not sure why Harry Reid should not be the one in the hot seat since he and his colleagues seem unwilling to even debate any Republican proposal but have no plan of their own that makes any immediate or significant reduction in the current amount of spending. Spending has increased by 23% since Obama took over from Bush and the Democratically controlled congress. A large majority thought spending was out of control already back then so it seems it should be an easy sell to reduce our spending back down to something lower then the 2007 levels that so many talk about.
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 25, 2011 9:39:24 GMT -5
So they don't use a system in which people pay into the court system according to their ability to pay and receive services according to their need? NO. You owe the full amount. .... Programs the state or county used to pay for... So it isn't a socialist system any longer. Is that a bad thing?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 25, 2011 9:54:21 GMT -5
So I shall ask to all the informed ones here, we have heard of the Ryan plan, We have heard of Cut, Cap and Balance, both of which originated in the House, seeing as the Senate has not passed a budget since April 2009, what plans or offers have come from the democratically controlled Senate? Has a budget offer been made from the leaders in the Senate, or do they simply shoot down the one offered by the House with no counter offer?
Why is it INCONCEIVABLE that Boehner pulls out of talks when his words fall on deaf ears and the plans he sends are dismissed out of hand with no offer from the "other" side?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 25, 2011 10:01:35 GMT -5
You mean this Ryan Budget plan?---"Oh yes," said Rep. Ryan. "I think we should clean up all those loopholes. And don't forget, there's a lot of corporate welfare spending that is in our budget put in there by both political parties because of powerful interests. We want to get rid of all that."
Ryan's comments come as President Obama dedicated his weekly address to encouraging Congress to eradicate oil subsidies.
"I do have a problem with the unwarranted taxpayer subsidies we've been handing out to oil and gas companies – to the tune of $4 billion a year," President Obama said in his address released on Saturday. "When oil companies are making huge profits and you're struggling at the pump, and we're scouring the federal budget for spending we can afford to do without, these tax giveaways aren't right. They aren't smart. And we need to end them."
Rep. Ryan insisted that his proposed budget would discourage these loopholes and eliminate them for industries beyond simply oil companies.
"What our budget does is we go after corporate welfare spending," Ryan told Amanpour. "There's corporate welfare spending on energy companies, both green and fossil energy companies. There's corporate welfare on large agri-business. There's corporate welfare on large financial companies. We want to get rid of all that corporate welfare."
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 25, 2011 10:32:13 GMT -5
You mean this Ryan Budget plan?---"Oh yes," said Rep. Ryan. "I think we should clean up all those loopholes. And don't forget, there's a lot of corporate welfare spending that is in our budget put in there by both political parties because of powerful interests. We want to get rid of all that." Ryan's comments come as President Obama dedicated his weekly address to encouraging Congress to eradicate oil subsidies. "I do have a problem with the unwarranted taxpayer subsidies we've been handing out to oil and gas companies – to the tune of $4 billion a year," President Obama said in his address released on Saturday. "When oil companies are making huge profits and you're struggling at the pump, and we're scouring the federal budget for spending we can afford to do without, these tax giveaways aren't right. They aren't smart. And we need to end them." Rep. Ryan insisted that his proposed budget would discourage these loopholes and eliminate them for industries beyond simply oil companies. "What our budget does is we go after corporate welfare spending," Ryan told Amanpour. "There's corporate welfare spending on energy companies, both green and fossil energy companies. There's corporate welfare on large agri-business. There's corporate welfare on large financial companies. We want to get rid of all that corporate welfare." No, I mean a plan that was actually offered up by an elected member of the Congress, a plan to get people talking, something placed on paper so that we the people can see what they are offering. When was the last time any leader in the Senate has placed anything on paper for Americans to see? Party blinders are blinding you.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2011 10:38:07 GMT -5
So I shall ask to all the informed ones here, we have heard of the Ryan plan, We have heard of Cut, Cap and Balance, both of which originated in the House, seeing as the Senate has not passed a budget since April 2009, what plans or offers have come from the democratically controlled Senate? Has a budget offer been made from the leaders in the Senate, or do they simply shoot down the one offered by the House with no counter offer? Why is it INCONCEIVABLE that Boehner pulls out of talks when his words fall on deaf ears and the plans he sends are dismissed out of hand with no offer from the "other" side? why does the GOP keep saying that? it isn't true, you know? www.tribtown.com/articles/budget-28801-obama-offers.html
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2011 10:46:17 GMT -5
Agreed, billis. Too often, I think, President Obama is a little too naive for his own (and everyone else's) good. i also agree. the GOP never had any intention of working with him, since day minus 100. a bright guy would have realized that and played hard ball from day one.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 25, 2011 10:46:20 GMT -5
DJ,.
Reading comprehension, I have mentioned NO WHERE the name Obama hasn't, what I have said is the Senate.
And I also believe that the Obama Budget was meet with a 0-97 vote count if I remember correctly.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2011 10:47:50 GMT -5
DJ,. Reading comprehension, I have mentioned NO WHERE the name Obama hasn't, what I have said is the Senate. must.............have...............coffee................................. (my bad)
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 25, 2011 10:49:37 GMT -5
DJ,. Reading comprehension, I have mentioned NO WHERE the name Obama hasn't, what I have said is the Senate. must.............have...............coffee................................. I Understand, when most people see the words they automatically assume it must be a dig against Obama, it's not it's a dig against the leadership of the Senate, over 840 days since a Budget has passed the Senate. Longer since one was offered from them.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 25, 2011 11:11:15 GMT -5
... Why is it INCONCEIVABLE that Boehner pulls out of talks . Not "INCONCEIVABLE that Boehner pulls out". "INCONCEIVABLE (when) Boehner pulls out". I can't believe this thread didn't get merged and/or is still going.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 25, 2011 11:13:59 GMT -5
Hasn't been merged by me simply because it has serious on going activity.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 25, 2011 11:51:23 GMT -5
One thing is for certain. When all this is settled one party will be seriously wounded. My question yet to be answered is which one will it be?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 25, 2011 12:05:35 GMT -5
One thing is for certain. When all this is settled one party will be seriously wounded. My question yet to be answered is which one will it be? I question that this will seriously alter the political landscape of American politics. People on each side will blame the other and those in the middle will remain there, frustrated with both sides.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2011 12:10:03 GMT -5
must.............have...............coffee................................. I Understand, when most people see the words they automatically assume it must be a dig against Obama, it's not it's a dig against the leadership of the Senate, over 840 days since a Budget has passed the Senate. Longer since one was offered from them. what puppy mills are to dogs, this board is to criticism of Obama.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2011 12:11:05 GMT -5
One thing is for certain. When all this is settled one party will be seriously wounded. My question yet to be answered is which one will it be? i honestly think that BOTH parties are hurt by this. and for that reason, i think that the GOP, which is by all accounts the current "brand of choice" is more damaged.
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Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Jul 25, 2011 12:22:15 GMT -5
I question that this will seriously alter the political landscape of American politics. People on each side will blame the other and those in the middle will remain there, frustrated with both sides. Completely agree.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 25, 2011 12:27:58 GMT -5
the polls bear this out, too.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 25, 2011 12:32:13 GMT -5
Why doesn't Obama use the 14th Amendment and issue an executive order to raise the debt limit again as suggested by former President Clinton ??..... .Instead Obama has been eased out of the discussions today with the congressional leaders. Boehner and Reid both have plans but they are still far apart so who knows which one will pass the congress?? Is Obama hesitant to raise the debt ceiling because he doesn't want to see another budget crisis just before his re election in 2012?
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Post by diamonds on Jul 25, 2011 12:38:01 GMT -5
"moving the goal posts" That's exactly what I said. Negotiating with Obama is like negotiating with a schoolyard bully. Kudos to you, Mr. Boehner. If you were here I'd give you a Karma. New York Times writing today we have a dysfunctional President, Naive is the wrong word.
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