Any wonder why California is broke?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-california-debt-clock.html

2.1 million unemployed, 3.8 million on food stamps...CA is doomed.

[jkapp]

Jul 17, 2011 13:55:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 17, 2011 13:48:46 GMT -5 txbo said:

Why would tax keep anyone from hiring? More BS from the right, I had a small business as has my son. He needs to hire someone right now and he doesn’t give a shit about the tax ramification. It is the need three months down the road. He has many military and non-military projects that can stop anytime. The other problem is finding someone that can actually program CNC machines.

precisely. what keeps people from hiring are two things:

1) lack of skilled labor
2) lack of sales

nothing more. if you are in business, and you are growing, you hire, if you can find the bodies.

unfortunately, this economy is a double whammy on both. we have a bunch of white collar sissies that don't want blue collar and engineering jobs, and we have a poop economy.

manufacturing and mining excepted.

Ummm, not quite...every company I have worked for looks at how much labor is required, the cost of that labor (including wages, insurance, taxes, etc), and whether work could be shifted around within the company instead of hiring additional labor.

If the costs are too high comparatively to the benefit received from hiring more labor, then no one is hired (or less labor is hired than originally planned).

[reasonfreedom]

Jul 17, 2011 12:42:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

only one problem with this thread.

california is not broke.

Yeah, it is beyond broke it is in debt. 0 will be good, -x is bad.

[Deleted]

CA is broke for a lot of reasons but the main one is human nature. Liberal policies have built one of the biggest social welfare states in the country. High taxes all the way around (state, sales, property) were implemented to pay for the various programs. Then human nature steps in twice. First with the idea that if you have the money you can spend it & that's what they did. They spent every dime they could on everything under the sun. Plus of course they had lots of waste & mismanagement (normal for any government).

In a booming economy they did fine & kept the state afloat. Then the economy slowed down (almost to a stop). Now the 2nd part of human nature stepped in, greed. Liberals didn't want to cut or for that matter modify any of their socal programs. Not all their fault because all those programs required large amounts of staff who of course didn't want to lose their jobs. It is always hard to cut anything from the government once it's there & social programs are the hardest. So the state kept paying & also kept going into the hole every month (don't worry, put a band aid on it until the economy turns around). Well the economy didn't turn around & look where they are.

We've seen this stuff hit CA before (they are usually the hardest state hit because they have the most liberal social programs). This cycle will keep happening to them each time business slows down unless they build up a surplus of money. They won't be able to do that until they cut both government & social programs (or at least the number of people living off the system). It would be funny if: 1. you don't live there & 2. Liberals weren't trying to chance the whole U.S. system to one just like CA (which we can see close up has some real flaws in it).

[privateinvestor]

No new taxes doesn't mean no new fees

Carla Marinucci, Joe Garofoli,Natalie Orenstein, Chronicle Staff Writers

Sunday, July 17, 2011



More...


From the West Coast to Washington, Republicans have fiercely embraced the "no new taxes" mantra - a move that in California, the GOP argued, will save $1,000 per family after the recent budget battle with Gov. Jerry Brown.

But try telling that to Josh Renwick, a Stockton teacher who stood in line last week in San Francisco to buy tickets for Muni, the city's public transportation agency that has had three price increases in three years.

With college tuition increasing again last week at the UC and CSU systems because of state budget cuts, many other Californians were crushed by the cumulative costs of daily life in a "no new taxes" world. CSU's $1,o32 tuition increase means that a family sending a child there will see its tax windfall evaporate all at once.

"It's politics," Renwick said. "They can say we had no new taxes but we really did. They just put it in a bunch of places we don't notice."

His colleague, teacher Heather Garcia, agreed. She recently bought a new cell phone and discovered the tax for the device went "through the roof" - making that fee almost equal to the price of a new phone.

"I'd rather they be up front about it and tell us what we need to pay, versus having guerrilla warfare in a sense," she said. "The bottom line is we're broke."

Feeling the pinch

Between costlier fees for parking meters, fattened traffic fines and increased fees for everything from dog licenses to bridge tolls, it's no wonder Californians are feeling the pinch, experts said, dinged by state and local government agencies that can't meet the bottom line without new revenue.

"In a crazy place like California, you look for strange and wonderful places to raise revenues - like higher fees for UC students and entrance fees for parks," said John Ellwood, a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy.

"We're nickel-and-diming people because they're unwilling to pay taxes," Ellwood said, adding that Republicans are "claiming victory because they hate government."

By refusing to support Brown's pleas to extend current levels of income, sales and vehicle taxes for five years to bridge the $26 billion budget gap, "Republicans have won and they have a right to toot their horn," Ellwood said, because they have "made the government in California smaller."

But if they were honest, Ellwood said, Republicans also should take credit for what comes with smaller government - or rather, what doesn't. Paying $1,000 less in state taxes means "you also get $1,000 worth of government services cuts," he said.

In 2008, the state general fund was $103 billion. Now, it's $84 billion - nearly 20 percent smaller.

Current budget troubles aren't the sole factor for ballooning costs. Cities and government agencies have been hit by inflation, higher gas costs and other economic pressures such as mounting pension liabilities, experts say.

Still, Californians will have to open their wallets - again and again. Some examples:

-- Concert parking at Oakland's Oracle Arena has increased 40 percent since 2008 to $35, thanks to an 18.5 percent parking tax imposed by the city.

-- Obtaining a dog license in San Francisco cost $28 three years ago; now it's $51.

-- The Bay Bridge rush-hour toll, which cost $4 in 2008, has risen 50 percent to $6 - a $10-a-week jump for weekday commuters.

'Huge tax increase'

The higher fees, most notably for state college and university tuition, represent "in effect, a huge whopping tax increase on California families and students," said Robert Cruickshank, who writes about state politics at the liberal Calitics.com.

"You're starting to see the anger," Cruickshank said. "You can let your roads collapse, you close fire stations or watch your library permanently shut down, but Californians are starting to realize" they'd be willing to pay higher taxes to keep those services.

Conservatives such as Chuck DeVore, a GOP U.S. Senate candidate in the 2010 primary, counter that Democrats have failed to corral state costs and public employee pensions - and are blaming the fallout on Republicans, who've held the line.

Democrats are saying "the school year will be shortened, the DMV will close every other Thursday," said DeVore, a former Orange County assemblyman who was vice chairman of the Assembly Committee on Revenue and Taxation.

DeVore accused Brown and fellow Democrats of backing a "cynical plan" that avoids "any real reform or restructuring" and calling for a tax increase on the ballot to "scare Republicans" during a financial crisis, he said.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa told The Chronicle on Thursday that after he trimmed 4,600 jobs because of the city's declining revenue, Angelenos would ask why there were so many potholes in the city.

"We've got to be straight with people," he said. "If you want a certain quality of life, you have to make investments. Now all spending is polarized around a partisan debate."

Mixed feelings

Recent polls show that Californians have mixed feelings about paying more taxes for better services. A June survey by the Public Policy Institute of California found that 69 percent of state residents would be willing to pay higher taxes to maintain K-12 public education funding levels.

But just a quarter of Californians backed raising the sales tax on all purchases, while nearly 40 percent supported extending the sales tax to services such as greens fees at golf courses.

"This whole budget cycle has proven that if you're not going to increase taxes, it comes from somewhere," Oakland city auditor Courtney Ruby said.

The "no new taxes" slogan, she said, doesn't mean taxpayers won't have to pay more. Public officials, she said, must watch wasteful spending and consider serious pension reform. But making the hardest choices in hard times, she added, requires more than slogans: "It takes a real upheaval in government."


E-mail the writers at [e-mail], [e-mail] and [e-mail].

sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/17/MN1I1KA35S.DTL

This article appeared on page A - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle

[djAdvocate]

Jul 18, 2011 9:35:59 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

CA is broke for a lot of reasons but the main one is human nature. Liberal policies have built one of the biggest social welfare states in the country. High taxes all the way around (state, sales, property) were implemented to pay for the various programs. Then human nature steps in twice. First with the idea that if you have the money you can spend it & that's what they did. They spent every dime they could on everything under the sun. Plus of course they had lots of waste & mismanagement (normal for any government).

In a booming economy they did fine & kept the state afloat. Then the economy slowed down (almost to a stop). Now the 2nd part of human nature stepped in, greed. Liberals didn't want to cut or for that matter modify any of their socal programs. Not all their fault because all those programs required large amounts of staff who of course didn't want to lose their jobs. It is always hard to cut anything from the government once it's there & social programs are the hardest. So the state kept paying & also kept going into the hole every money (don't worry, put a band aid on it until the economy turns around). Well the economy didn't turn around & look where they are.

We've seen this stuff hit CA before (they are usually the hardest state hit because they have the most liberal social programs). This cycle will keep happening to them each time business slows down unless they build up a surplus of money. They won't be able to do that until they cut both government & social programs (or at least the number of people living off the system). It would be funny if: 1. you don't live there & 2. Liberals weren't trying to chance the whole U.S. system to one just like CA (which we can see close up has some real flaws in it).

CA is not nearly as liberal as most people think.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 18, 2011 10:16:14 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 18, 2011 9:35:59 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

CA is broke for a lot of reasons but the main one is human nature. Liberal policies have built one of the biggest social welfare states in the country. High taxes all the way around (state, sales, property) were implemented to pay for the various programs. Then human nature steps in twice. First with the idea that if you have the money you can spend it & that's what they did. They spent every dime they could on everything under the sun. Plus of course they had lots of waste & mismanagement (normal for any government).

In a booming economy they did fine & kept the state afloat. Then the economy slowed down (almost to a stop). Now the 2nd part of human nature stepped in, greed. Liberals didn't want to cut or for that matter modify any of their socal programs. Not all their fault because all those programs required large amounts of staff who of course didn't want to lose their jobs. It is always hard to cut anything from the government once it's there & social programs are the hardest. So the state kept paying & also kept going into the hole every money (don't worry, put a band aid on it until the economy turns around). Well the economy didn't turn around & look where they are.

We've seen this stuff hit CA before (they are usually the hardest state hit because they have the most liberal social programs). This cycle will keep happening to them each time business slows down unless they build up a surplus of money. They won't be able to do that until they cut both government & social programs (or at least the number of people living off the system). It would be funny if: 1. you don't live there & 2. Liberals weren't trying to chance the whole U.S. system to one just like CA (which we can see close up has some real flaws in it).

CA is not nearly as liberal as most people think.

Yes but the Liberals control the state of California in Sacramento, Los Angeles and San Francisco...along with the Hispanic Caucus.....old, white conservative males are in the minority and about to be second class citizens but we will NOT go quietly into the night just in case you are worried about us...we will always have the Tea Party out here to shake up the status quo...

Jerry Brown told those who want to split the state in two or who don't like the way the Liberals are ruining this state that they can always move to Arizona if they don't like living out here in the not so Golden State anymore.

[maui1]

Sadly, the state of California is facing such a wide array of social, economic, and political problems that it is hard to even document them all. It is really one huge gigantic mess at this point.

Just consider the following facts about what life is like in the state of California today....

#1 Unemployment in the state of California was 12.4% in September - one of the highest rates in the nation.

#2 The number of people unemployed in the state of California is approximately equivalent to the populations of Nevada, New Hampshire and Vermont combined.

#3 Not even state government jobs are safe in California these days. Last month, government agencies in California slashed a total of 37,300 jobs.

#4 California has the third highest state income tax in the nation: a 9.55% tax bracket at $47,055 and a 10.55% bracket at $1,000,000.

#5 California has the highest state sales tax rate in the nation by far at 8.25%. Indiana has the next highest at 7%.

#6 Residents of California pay the highest gasoline taxes (over 67 cents per gallon) in the United States.

#7 Even with all of the taxes, the budget deficit for the California state government for the current year is approximately 19 billion dollars.

#8 According to an article in the Wall Street Journal, California's unfunded pension liability is estimated to be somewhere between $120 billion and $500 billion.

#9 20 percent of the residents of Los Angeles County are now receiving public aid.

#10 Budget cuts are making life very difficult in many California cities. For example, Oakland, California Police Chief Anthony Batts says that due to severe budget cuts there are a number of crimes that his department will simply not be able to respond to any longer. The crimes that the Oakland police will no longer be responding to include grand theft, burglary, car wrecks, identity theft and vandalism.

Things have gotten so bad in Stockton, California that the police union put up a billboard with the following message: "Welcome to the 2nd most dangerous city in California. Stop laying off cops."

#11 According to one survey, approximately 1 in 4 Californians under the age of 65 had absolutely no health insurance last year.

#12 California's poverty rate soared to 15.3 percent in 2009, which was the highest in 11 years.

#13 California's overstretched health care system is also on the verge of collapse. Dozens of California hospitals and emergency rooms have shut down over the last decade because they could not afford to stay open after being endlessly swamped by illegal immigrants and poor Californians who were simply not able to pay for the services they were receiving. As a result, the remainder of the health care system in the state of California is now beyond overloaded. This had led to brutally long waits, diverted ambulances and even unnecessary patient deaths.

#14 California home builders began construction on 1,811 homes during the month of August, which was down 77% from August 2006.

#15 Earlier this year, it was reported that in the area around Sacramento, California there was one closed business for every six that were still open.

#16 The "lawsuit climate" in California is ranked number 46 out of all 50 states.

#17 Residents of California pay some of the highest electricity prices in the entire nation.

#18 Over 20 percent of California homeowners are now underwater on their mortgages.

#19 Large tent cities have been springing up all over the state of California.

[privateinvestor]

Sadly, the state of California is facing such a wide array of social, economic, and political problems that it is hard to even document them all. It is really one huge gigantic mess at this point.

Yea but life goes on out here in California. We still try to live and let live and I think California will not go broke. Although all our politicians do out here is to blame the other party for all of our financial issues which is why I am APolitical, and don't think much of either the dems or repubs in Sacramento, CA..

[djAdvocate]

Jul 18, 2011 6:52:28 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-california-debt-clock.html

2.1 million unemployed, 3.8 million on food stamps...CA is doomed.

if so, then so is America. we are 11% of this nation.

[floridayankee]

A 51st state? Try South California

Inland, rural counties upset with the state.



By Jennifer Medina

New York Times

Natives in Riverside, Calif., have long called the area the Inland Empire, a grand title for a stretch of cities about 50 miles east of Los Angeles. Now, a few political leaders are hoping this empire will lead a movement to break off from the state of California.

Frustrated by a state government he calls 'completely dysfunctional' and 'totally unresponsive,' a conservative Republican county supervisor is pushing a proposal for roughly a dozen counties in the eastern and southern parts of the nation's thirdlargest state - conspicuously not including the heavily Democratic City of Los Angeles - to form a new state to be called 'South California.' 'We have businesses leaving all the time, and we're just driving down a cliff to become a third-world economy,' said the supervisor, Jeff Stone, who once ran for the Legislature. 'Anyone you ask has a horror story. At some point we have to decide enough is enough and deal with it in a radically new way.' He added: 'I am tired of California being the laughingstock of late-night jokes. We must change course immediately or create a new state.' Stone's list of complaints is long - too much money spent on state prisons, too much power for public unions, too many regulations and not enough of a crackdown on illegal immigration. It seems clear that he has struck a nerve in some quarters; he said that his office has been inundated with thousands of emails, letters and phone calls supporting his call for secession.

While several other county supervisors initially dismissed the notion of seceding, last week the Riverside County board unanimously approved Stone's proposal to plan a conference for California municipal leaders to discuss ways to fix state government or consider secession.

Outside the biggest cities, the landscape is dotted with orange groves instead of palm trees and deserts instead of coastlines, an environment that is generally more rural than urban. The population tends to be poorer and more socially and politically conservative - Republicans outnumber Democrats in all but two of the counties in Stone's proposed new state, which includes San Diego.

'The politics of victimhood are very powerful,' said Shaun Bowler, a political science professor at the University of California Riverside. Stone's attempt taps into an angry undercurrent among many conservatives in the eastern part of the state. 'People have been mad for a long time. They seem to have a sense that if they keep shouting louder that they are right that they will convince the rest of the state that they are right.' Bob Buster, the chairman of the Board of Supervisors, initially called Stone's idea a 'crazy distraction.' But he acknowledged that there was much to be unhappy about.

'There is a chronic unhappiness we have with the state that we cannot shake,' said Buster, who is not a registered member of either party. 'We're already balkanized in this state. The problem is governance itself, but we need to work to fix the problems, not spend time talking about just taking our marbles and leaving.'

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 12:54:21 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

A 51st state? Try South California

Inland, rural counties upset with the state.



By Jennifer Medina

New York Times

Natives in Riverside, Calif., have long called the area the Inland Empire, a grand title for a stretch of cities about 50 miles east of Los Angeles. Now, a few political leaders are hoping this empire will lead a movement to break off from the state of California.

Frustrated by a state government he calls 'completely dysfunctional' and 'totally unresponsive,' a conservative Republican county supervisor is pushing a proposal for roughly a dozen counties in the eastern and southern parts of the nation's thirdlargest state - conspicuously not including the heavily Democratic City of Los Angeles - to form a new state to be called 'South California.' 'We have businesses leaving all the time, and we're just driving down a cliff to become a third-world economy,' said the supervisor, Jeff Stone, who once ran for the Legislature. 'Anyone you ask has a horror story. At some point we have to decide enough is enough and deal with it in a radically new way.' He added: 'I am tired of California being the laughingstock of late-night jokes. We must change course immediately or create a new state.' Stone's list of complaints is long - too much money spent on state prisons, too much power for public unions, too many regulations and not enough of a crackdown on illegal immigration. It seems clear that he has struck a nerve in some quarters; he said that his office has been inundated with thousands of emails, letters and phone calls supporting his call for secession.

While several other county supervisors initially dismissed the notion of seceding, last week the Riverside County board unanimously approved Stone's proposal to plan a conference for California municipal leaders to discuss ways to fix state government or consider secession.

Outside the biggest cities, the landscape is dotted with orange groves instead of palm trees and deserts instead of coastlines, an environment that is generally more rural than urban. The population tends to be poorer and more socially and politically conservative - Republicans outnumber Democrats in all but two of the counties in Stone's proposed new state, which includes San Diego.

'The politics of victimhood are very powerful,' said Shaun Bowler, a political science professor at the University of California Riverside. Stone's attempt taps into an angry undercurrent among many conservatives in the eastern part of the state. 'People have been mad for a long time. They seem to have a sense that if they keep shouting louder that they are right that they will convince the rest of the state that they are right.' Bob Buster, the chairman of the Board of Supervisors, initially called Stone's idea a 'crazy distraction.' But he acknowledged that there was much to be unhappy about.

'There is a chronic unhappiness we have with the state that we cannot shake,' said Buster, who is not a registered member of either party. 'We're already balkanized in this state. The problem is governance itself, but we need to work to fix the problems, not spend time talking about just taking our marbles and leaving.'

inland counties have almost no power here, except in terms of water policy.

[rockon]

It is an absolutely true statement that businesses will generally only hire people because they have orders to fill. But in our new global economy that statement can only becomes reality in our country when a domestic company can be competitive with a company in another country. When we increase the tax burden, regulations or cost of doing business on our own companies we immediately create the possibility that the job could be more competitively produced in Mexico,China or India. Or current trade agreements have created many of the employment problems that we have today. We already have a very high rate of taxation on business and can raise that even higher if we choose but need to open our eyes to the connection between this decision and the unemployment numbers.

[privateinvestor]

It is an absolutely true statement that businesses will generally only hire people because they have orders to fill

It is more than that because if the consumer is NOT spending then businesses will not be able to expand but just the opposite they have to reduce costs and that means not hiring or laying off workers.

Personal consumption is at all time low levels this year and there is no improvement in the near future.. or basically the consumer is NOT opening their wallets

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:03:41 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

It is an absolutely true statement that businesses will generally only hire people because they have orders to fill

It is more than that because if the consumer is NOT spending then businesses will not be able to expand but just the opposite they have to reduce costs and that means not hiring or laying off workers.

Personal consumption is at all time low levels this year and there is no improvement in the near future.. or basically the consumer is NOT opening their wallets

BINGO!

this tendency to squirrel away income out of the fear of losing a job is a killer. Japan has been fighting it for a generation- and you know what? China is next, unless they can convince their people to spend.

[Deleted]

Personal consumption is at all time low levels this year and there is no improvement in the near future.. or basically the consumer is NOT opening their wallets

I guess the question is "Why aren't they opening their wallets"?

Maybe:

1. Everything they hear or read about the economy scares them to death because they think I'm next.

2. They have been living on credit for a long time because they wanted to live the American dream with all the bells & whistles.

Which one is it (or maybe it's something else)? I don't know. What I do know is that cutting taxes will give them more money in their pocket. Of course that may not make our economy take off but it might let those that over spent hang on for a little longer.

Of course we could raise taxes. That would give more money to take care of the poor. As a side effect though it just might make more people poor so we need to raise taxes again to take care of the newly created poor.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:18:26 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Personal consumption is at all time low levels this year and there is no improvement in the near future.. or basically the consumer is NOT opening their wallets

I guess the question is "Why aren't they opening their wallets"?

Maybe:

1. Everything they hear or read about the economy scares them to death because they think I'm next.

2. They have been living on credit for a long time because they wanted to live the American dream with all the bells & whistles.

Which one is it (or maybe it's something else)?

it is #1. consumer debt has been falling dramatically since the financial bubble burst.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:18:26 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Personal consumption is at all time low levels this year and there is no improvement in the near future.. or basically the consumer is NOT opening their wallets

What I do know is that cutting taxes will give them more money in their pocket. Of course that may not make our economy take off but it might let those that over spent hang on for a little longer.

i don't think it does anything of the sort. i think they sock it away.

my proof for it is circumstantial. there was a large payroll tax cut this year. how much did it stimulate the economy?

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:18:26 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Personal consumption is at all time low levels this year and there is no improvement in the near future.. or basically the consumer is NOT opening their wallets

Of course we could raise taxes. That would give more money to take care of the poor. As a side effect though it just might make more people poor so we need to raise taxes again to take care of the newly created poor.

there is no statistical case that can be made for that. unemployment -vs- top incremental tax rates shows virtually no correlation. ditto for economic growth, actually. the only direct correlation is to revenues.

[privateinvestor]

Why aren't they opening their wallets"?

I believe it is a lack of confidence in the Obama Administration and the threat of default is beginning to become a reality, I guess??

[floridayankee]

Jul 19, 2011 13:06:54 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

inland counties have almost no power here, except in terms of water policy.

which is perhaps the reason they tossed out the term secession. You can only kick a dog for so long before he eventually turns and bites you back.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:25:52 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Why aren't they opening their wallets"?

I believe it is a lack of confidence in the Obama Administration and the threat of default is beginning to become a reality, I guess??

c'mon, PI. you are better than that. you know as well as i do that it has nothing to do with the current discussion- or nearly nothing. it is the fact that this economy is barely producing enough jobs to keep up with population change, and that the long term unemployed are still unemployed.

that reality is actually as old as this administration, as the unemployment rate went up nearly 3% in Bush's last year in office, then another 3% under Obama, only to fall by about half that. in other words, those folks that voted for Obama? some of them are still out of work. THAT is the problem.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:28:12 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Jul 19, 2011 13:06:54 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

inland counties have almost no power here, except in terms of water policy.

which is perhaps the reason they tossed out the term secession. You can only kick a dog for so long before he eventually turns and bites you back.

counties have been talking secession here since 1850. they will still be talking secession in 2150. relax. it is background noise from the disenfranchised. it is as old as paper money.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 19, 2011 15:36:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 19, 2011 15:25:52 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Why aren't they opening their wallets"?

I believe it is a lack of confidence in the Obama Administration and the threat of default is beginning to become a reality, I guess??

c'mon, PI. you are better than that. you know as well as i do that it has nothing to do with the current discussion- or nearly nothing. it is the fact that this economy is barely producing enough jobs to keep up with population change, and that the long term unemployed are still unemployed.

that reality is actually as old as this administration, as the unemployment rate went up nearly 3% in Bush's last year in office, then another 3% under Obama, only to fall by about half that. in other words, those folks that voted for Obama? some of them are still out of work. THAT is the problem.

In case you missed my point let me repeat it....businesses confidence in the Obama Administration is at an all time low and I don't see anything he can do to change our economic slowdown ..but rather I think he will only make it worse IMHO

And the economic issues in CA are due to the inept liberals in Sacramento CA and Washington DC...so deal with it if you can???

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:42:42 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Jul 19, 2011 15:36:49 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

c'mon, PI. you are better than that. you know as well as i do that it has nothing to do with the current discussion- or nearly nothing. it is the fact that this economy is barely producing enough jobs to keep up with population change, and that the long term unemployed are still unemployed.

that reality is actually as old as this administration, as the unemployment rate went up nearly 3% in Bush's last year in office, then another 3% under Obama, only to fall by about half that. in other words, those folks that voted for Obama? some of them are still out of work. THAT is the problem.

In case you missed my point let me repeat it....businesses confidence in the Obama Administration is at an all time low and I don't see anything he can do to change our econimic slowdown ..but rather I think he will only make it worse IMHO

businesses don't drive demand, tho. consumers do.

you can stop repeating. i heard you the first time. but the consumer is king is not just a cheap slogan.

businesses will take opportunities where they come. for example, when the SBA waived their $25k fee, and offered record low rates, i bailed on my marijuana smoke encrusted landlord and bought my own building on short sale. i would have done it even if my sales were flat or lower, because it was a good opportunity- one i had waited for since the last good recession in 1992-1994.

businessmen thrive on adversity. Obama be damned. i am going to grow rich in this lame ass economy, no matter what he brings on. i had a record year last year, and i hope to have one this year, as well.

[privateinvestor]

you can stop repeating. i heard you the first time. but the consumer is king is not just a cheap slogan.

Businesses have no confidence in the Obama Administration because they are concerned he will increase their taxes...so again they have to deal with that threat by NOT hiring...

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:50:00 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

you can stop repeating. i heard you the first time. but the consumer is king is not just a cheap slogan.

Businesses have no confidence in the Obama Administration because they are concerned he will increase their taxes...so again they have to deal with that threat by NOT hiring...

they would absolutely hire if there were enough demand to merit it, no matter what they thought of Obama.

well, unless they are really stupid, that is. i shouldn't discount that.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 19, 2011 15:53:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 19, 2011 15:50:00 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

you can stop repeating. i heard you the first time. but the consumer is king is not just a cheap slogan.

Businesses have no confidence in the Obama Administration because they are concerned he will increase their taxes...so again they have to deal with that threat by NOT hiring...

they would absolutely hire if there were enough demand to merit it, no matter what they thought of Obama.

well, unless they are really stupid, that is. i shouldn't discount that.

News Flash in case you missed it .....Our Economy created @16,000 jobs last month....so stay tuned for another slow month

[djAdvocate]

Jul 19, 2011 15:56:20 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Jul 19, 2011 15:53:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

they would absolutely hire if there were enough demand to merit it, no matter what they thought of Obama.

well, unless they are really stupid, that is. i shouldn't discount that.

News Flash in case you missed it .....Our Economy created @16,000 jobs last month....so stay tuned for another slow month

and that has absolutely ZIP to do with Obama, imo. i know we disagree on this, PI. i get it. thanks. we should probably just move on, eh?

but if you want me to explain it again- this was a financial meltdown. they don't happen often. the last one was in 1929. it takes a decade to work out of them. and the debt balloons while you do it. Obama should explain that, but i think he has missed his chance to do so. at this point, only WW3 will change everyone's mind about it, imo.

i will hand it to Bush for this- his PR team was way better.