Democrats resort to Alinsky negotiation tactics

[henryclay]

Initiate Alinsky Tactic of 'Target, Isolate, Polarize

Obama shut Cantor down, , , sources revealed, saying "enough is enough" and telling him, "Don't call my bluff."

One source said the president, before walking out of the room, told Cantor he "will not yield" . . . . .

"Boehner needs to rein [the juvenile] in, and let the grown-ups get to work," added a House Democratic source , , ,

Cantor's steadfast refusal to raise taxes as part of a deal to increase the nation's $14.3 trillion debt limit has earned him praise from the Tea Party wing of his own party, but the scorn of Democrats, , , ,

Boehner said Thursday that he and Cantor are in the "foxhole" together, and that any suggestion Cantor has been unhelpful is "wrong."

"This isn't a question about personalities -- Eric, President Obama or Harry Reid -- it's about doing what is right for the country and trying to find a productive solution that finally demonstrates Washington is serious about America's fiscal health," Fallon said. . . .

I say, "Stick to your guns, Mr. Cantor.

newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/2240

[handyman2]

The Republicans look to me like they are set on testing Obama's backbone. We shall see how it turns out. If I were a gambler and played the odds I would bet Obama will fold. He has changed his message so many times I cannot keep track of them all.

[Deleted]

If I were a gambler and played the odds I would bet Obama will fold.

I think what President Obama will do is what he thinks will best get him elected again.

[cereb]

"Initiate Alinsky Tactic of 'Target, Isolate, Polarize"


How tiresome. Buzzwords are like an addiction to some folks who don't have the ability to think for themselves.

[henryclay]

cereb, it can't be because there is nothing important for you to read and commemt on that you haave stopped by, so it must be because of the poster that put up the thread, and you already know it that won't require reading in order to digest the tone of the post itself. I suggest that if you enjoy flailing yourself with unpleasant truths about Obama and his hangers on, then you should come by more often. But knowing beforehand that the subject will not be complimentry to him or them, I wonder why do you mistreat such a nice person as yourself by indulging in torturing your mind like you do.

But of course it's always good to see snarky comments, so you are urged to please yourself by leaving more of them.

[deziloooooo]

Jul 15, 2011 19:36:10 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

The Republicans look to me like they are set on testing Obama's backbone. We shall see how it turns out. If I were a gambler and played the odds I would bet Obama will fold. He has changed his message so many times I cannot keep track of them all.

It has been brought up that he can raise the cealing by presidential decree, is that true, no one has answered that one.

PS , Is some one doing personal attacks on another poster here..and suggesting they shouldn't post here..snarky remarks on a fellow member..??

[cereb]

Jul 15, 2011 22:07:06 GMT -5 henryclay said:

cereb, it can't be because there is nothing important for you to read and commemt on that you haave stopped by, so it must be because of the poster that put up the thread, and you already know it that won't require reading in order to digest the tone of the post itself. I suggest that if you enjoy flailing yourself with unpleasant truths about Obama and his hangers on, then you should come by more often. But knowing beforehand that the subject will not be complimentry to him or them, I wonder why do you mistreat such a nice person as yourself by indulging in torturing your mind like you do.

But of course it's always good to see snarky comments, so you are urged to please yourself by leaving more of them.

Have you ever read anything by Alinsky? I sincerely doubt it. Most of the folks who post "Alinsky this" or "Alinsky that" have never read anything the man ever wrote, other than excerpts from a book written decades ago wildly taken out of context. As soon as I see him referenced in any kind of article regarding today's politics, I think to myself, now there's a person with the brain of a hockey puck. The man's name is no more than a buzz word for the lazy minded morons who want to sell "news". Let me tell you something. It ain't news. If you want to jump on that happy bandwagon of idiots, be my guest. The snarkyness shall overfloweth... And another thing. You want to go after the POTUS, by all means go for it. He has certainly screwed up plethora of issues. My point now, and has always been, don't be dishonest about it, discuss actual issues, not calorie counting, or a fly on his chin, or all the other BS stuff. Real issues. Real problems. real discussion.

[henryclay]

cereb, Have I ever read anything by Alinsky? Why is that important when "Our President" has written that his own best education was when he himself studied Alinsky?

But why ask me, anyway? I didn't write the article, I just referenced some of it. And that's what I wass referring to earlier. If it pains you so, why open the posts?

And on that point,, , that of reading about things that interrest you, , let's see, to use your words, to, "discuss actual issues, not calorie counting, or a fly on his chin, or all the other BS stuff. Real issues. Real problems. real discussion." Ok, I'm game.

I'm so game that I just went back looking for threads you have opened on these things that are of such importance to you., , , about your 'real issues, real problems, real discussion", and I didn't find any. I went all the way to June, 2nd. 800 posts. I found 4 threads that you started. I can't classify any of them as being "real" anything. One was an attack on Sarah Palin over a remark she made. One was on a satirical April 1st story. One was a put down on affirmative action, (where your entire participation was to open, and then abandon the entire thread, with three words: , , , "What say you?" And the 4th and most recent thread was entitled "Liberals must be horrible people". You opened it this way:

"The way that anyone with a Democrat or liberal leaning is portrayed in overwhelming quantities on this forum is simply astounding. Some posters will walk on their lips through busted glass just to find some bizarre minutia to post which supports their view of liberal or left leaning folks as terrorists, baby killers, thieves, godless barbarians and lazy no good do nothings. It would appear with the overwhelming number of conservatives, liberals are the whipping post of the day.

Discuss... "

Your participation in that thread included your wanting my "WTF2000 decoder ring".

So I don't mind your asking if I've ever read anythng by Alinsky, because it's not important Why should it be? I have both you and Obama as Alinsky clones.

And just for balance, I don't know if I've ever read anything written by Dwight Eisenhower, Douglas MacArthur, or Christopher Columbus either, but I think I have a pretty good idea of how they thought and what their beliefs were.

I'm looking forward to more of your threads on "real issues, real problems and real discussions".

[SweetVirginia]

Jul 16, 2011 1:35:58 GMT -5 henryclay said:

cereb, Have I ever read anything by Alinsky? Why is that important when "Our President" has written that his own best education was when he himself studied Alinsky?

But why ask me, anyway? I didn't write the article, I just referenced some of it. And that's what I wass referring to earlier. If it pains you so, why open the posts?

And on that point,, , that of reading about things that interrest you, , let's see, to use your words, to, "discuss actual issues, not calorie counting, or a fly on his chin, or all the other BS stuff. Real issues. Real problems. real discussion." Ok, I'm game.

I'm so game that I just went back looking for threads you have opened on these things that are of such importance to you., , , about your 'real issues, real problems, real discussion", and I didn't find any. I went all the way to June, 2nd. 800 posts. I found 4 threads that you started. I can't classify any of them as being "real" anything. One was an attack on Sarah Palin over a remark she made. One was on a satirical April 1st story. One was a put down on affirmative action, (where your entire participation was to open, and then abandon the entire thread, with three words: , , , "What say you?" And the 4th and most recent thread was entitled "Liberals must be horrible people". You opened it this way:

"The way that anyone with a Democrat or liberal leaning is portrayed in overwhelming quantities on this forum is simply astounding. Some posters will walk on their lips through busted glass just to find some bizarre minutia to post which supports their view of liberal or left leaning folks as terrorists, baby killers, thieves, godless barbarians and lazy no good do nothings. It would appear with the overwhelming number of conservatives, liberals are the whipping post of the day.

Discuss... "

Your participation in that thread included your wanting my "WTF2000 decoder ring".

So I don't mind your asking if I've ever read anythng by Alinsky, because it's not important Why should it be? I have both you and Obama as Alinsky clones.

And just for balance, I don't know if I've ever read anything written by Dwight Eisenhower, Douglas MacArthur, or Christopher Columbus either, but I think I have a pretty good idea of how they thought and what their beliefs were.

I'm looking forward to more of your threads on "real issues, real problems and real discussions".

I think you can take all that as a big fat "NO"

[privateinvestor]

Democrats Initiate Alinsky Tactic of
'Target, Isolate, Polarize' Against Cantor


Cantor has company since Dems are also using the Alinsky Tactics against Boehner and McConnell... Each and every Democratic Congress Members press conference aeem to me to use the Alinsky tactic of target, isolate, polarize against these republicans leaders and the two best of the best are Pelosi and Van Hollen at this art of the Alinsky Tactic...IMHO..

[mmhmm]

It occurs to me if I haven't read Alinsky for myself, I wouldn't know an Alinsky clone from a hole in the floor. I'd know only what others told me to know.

[ugonow]

Looks to me like the right is getting scared they are looking like the bad guys in this.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 16, 2011 7:54:02 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Looks to me like the right is getting scared they are looking like the bad guys in this.

I strongly disagree and would add that the Dems, Repubs, Obama, Bernanke, and Geithner all equally look like bad guys....or maybe like a bunch of wimps blaming each other and storming out of meetings and of course Dems using the Alinsky Tactics ad nausea which is getting to be rather sickening... Chris Van Hollen was on MSNBC last night and answered every question about the risk of a default by lambasting Speaker Boehner and/or his right hand man Eric Cantor...what a mess we have to suffer through with so much vile and hatred beings spewed out by our elected officials IMHO

P.I. (Anxious Democrat)

[cereb]

Jul 16, 2011 1:35:58 GMT -5 henryclay said:

cereb, Have I ever read anything by Alinsky? Why is that important when "Our President" has written that his own best education was when he himself studied Alinsky?

But why ask me, anyway? I didn't write the article, I just referenced some of it. And that's what I wass referring to earlier. If it pains you so, why open the posts?

And on that point,, , that of reading about things that interrest you, , let's see, to use your words, to, "discuss actual issues, not calorie counting, or a fly on his chin, or all the other BS stuff. Real issues. Real problems. real discussion." Ok, I'm game.

I'm so game that I just went back looking for threads you have opened on these things that are of such importance to you., , , about your 'real issues, real problems, real discussion", and I didn't find any. I went all the way to June, 2nd. 800 posts. I found 4 threads that you started. I can't classify any of them as being "real" anything. One was an attack on Sarah Palin over a remark she made. One was on a satirical April 1st story. One was a put down on affirmative action, (where your entire participation was to open, and then abandon the entire thread, with three words: , , , "What say you?" And the 4th and most recent thread was entitled "Liberals must be horrible people". You opened it this way:

"The way that anyone with a Democrat or liberal leaning is portrayed in overwhelming quantities on this forum is simply astounding. Some posters will walk on their lips through busted glass just to find some bizarre minutia to post which supports their view of liberal or left leaning folks as terrorists, baby killers, thieves, godless barbarians and lazy no good do nothings. It would appear with the overwhelming number of conservatives, liberals are the whipping post of the day.

Discuss... "

Your participation in that thread included your wanting my "WTF2000 decoder ring".

So I don't mind your asking if I've ever read anythng by Alinsky, because it's not important Why should it be? I have both you and Obama as Alinsky clones.

And just for balance, I don't know if I've ever read anything written by Dwight Eisenhower, Douglas MacArthur, or Christopher Columbus either, but I think I have a pretty good idea of how they thought and what their beliefs were.

I'm looking forward to more of your threads on "real issues, real problems and real discussions".

Well Henry, thanks for the interest, concern regarding my posting habits as well as the analysis of said posting habits. You are hardly what I would refer to as an unbiased opinion on those habits, so, well, you figure it out and I'll reserve the snarky comment for a later date. However, please note that I will post where ever and on whatever topic pleases me to do so. If that disurbs you, I would suggest taking short walks or switch to decaf.

Apparently you are struggling with my initial post and the explanation of my objection to using the "Alinskey" buzz word. Let me simplify it for you.


People who use the "Alinsky" buzz word look like idiots. They don't know what the hell they are talking about. For example, the article didn't even get the particular rule right, because it's actually "Pick the target, Freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Your article uses the term "Isolate" which doesn't work if your intention is to apply the other steps of the rule. Like I said earlier, and I don't know of any other way to say it, those who jump on this band wagon of ignorance only look, well, ignorant when they continue to perpetuate the stupidity. If that is your preference to do so, I can't help you much.


As far as me being an Alinsky clone, well that's pretty amusing since I am sure your intention was to be insulting. Since you know absolutely nothing about Alinsky other than what you have been told to think I can tell you your perceived insult fell flat.

Alinsky was a tireless advocate for the impoverished. He was a writer and a philosopher. He was an extremely intelligent and perceptive individual. He was not some horrible monster that the wacky right wing media makes him out to be. Your careless use of his name simply supports my contention that you know nothing about him, including what his thoughts were. If that's an indicator of your grip of information regarding the other prominent figures you listed that you claimed you know all about, my suggestion is to get a few books and read them or risk being labeled an idiot when you blather on and on and spout misinformation. Your choice.

[cereb]

Jul 16, 2011 8:14:02 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Jul 16, 2011 7:54:02 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Looks to me like the right is getting scared they are looking like the bad guys in this.

I strongly disagree and would add that the Dems, Repubs, Obama, Bernanke, and Geithner all equally look like bad guys....or maybe like a bunch of wimps blaming each other and storming out of meetings and of course Dems using the Alinsky Tactics ad nausea which is getting to be rather sickening... Chris Van Hollen was on MSNBC last night and answered every question about the risk of a default by lambasting Speaker Boehner and/or his right hand man Eric Cantor...what a mess we have to suffer through with so much vile and hatred beings spewed out by our elected officials IMHO

P.I. (Anxious Democrat)

I'll agree with 99.0% of what you said if your intention is to say that all sides are to blame at this point.


Again, the "alinsky" reference is just plain bizarre and actually incorrect in it's current usage of this particular instance. I will say though, it's a shinning example of the media's ability to totally disengage the brains of functional human beings and turn them into propaganda drones.

[djAdvocate]

i see, so Obama proposing something that is far right of his own constituency and right of what many Republicans have proposed is divisive.

ho.....kay.



Alinsky would probably organize a coup against Obama if he were still alive for being a traitor to his party.

[cereb]

Jul 16, 2011 10:12:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i see, so Obama proposing something that is far right of his own constituency and right of what many Republicans have proposed is divisive.

ho.....kay.



Alinsky would probably organize a coup against Obama if he were still alive for being a traitor to his party.

Yep! The real funny par is the thread header which lists this "rule" as a "negotiation tactic". It isn't.

[cereb]

Alinsky's " Rules for Radicals" wasn't about how to negotiate. I was meant to teach those who had no power and no voice to take power and be heard.

[henryclay]

cereb,

Thank you for investing your time and effort, (and mine), on the "real" issues and the "real, problems, and to have added so much of your invaluable insight into a "real" discussion concerning the things you wrote about earlier with such passion.

[cereb]

Jul 16, 2011 10:29:39 GMT -5 henryclay said:

cereb,

Thank you for investing your time and effort, (and mine), on the "real" issues and the "real, problems, and to have added so much of your invaluable insight into a "real" discussion concerning the things you wrote about earlier with such passion.

I'm not sure how I should take that. It feels like you wanted to use the "sarcasm" icon, but didn't have one to use. I do this...<sarcasm>


There are some things I am particularly passionate about. This is one of them. If people continue to mislabel and have a "follow the media" pack, it really leaves nothing to discus but misinformation.

Do you get where I am coming from on this?

[henryclay]

"Pick the target, Freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."

I wonder, , , does that include something that is not pleasant for you, , , like title of this thread? Because it sure seems that way. The title of the thread, and the article behind it, was just to open the door to one writer's opinion of how things were going in a discussion and his personal outsidere's perception of how things were going in that discussion.

Your purpose seems to be to not let the door get opened. Your purpose seems to be to rant abut the title words the writer chose rather than the content of the article itself.

Of course, that's just one person's opinion.

[cereb]

Jul 16, 2011 10:37:02 GMT -5 henryclay said:

"Pick the target, Freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."

I wonder, , , does that include something that is not pleasant for you, , , like title of this thread?

Not at all, and again, by your comment, I really feel as though you haven't understood a single word I have typed.


Let me also save you the effort, don't bother trying to shrink me with some lame game amateur psych tactics. I have a CAGS in psychology and 25 years post graduate work.


That trick never works.

[cereb]

"Your purpose seems to be to not let the door get opened"


Not at all. Henry, you need to read the words I am typing. Don't read into that which does not exist. I am very straight up about my intentions and my meanings. There are no hidden agendas. What would be the point?

[henryclay]

cereb,

Sorry, but I think we're posting opast each oither. I was modifying my ast post while you were posting yours. You didn't have the benefit of my modified post. You might not have seen it yet.

[henryclay]

>>>>>>"Your purpose seems to be to not let the door get opened"

Not at all.<<<<<<

Then why spend so much time on the title. Why not discuss the article?

[cereb]

Jul 16, 2011 10:50:20 GMT -5 henryclay said:

>>>>>>"Your purpose seems to be to not let the door get opened"

Not at all.<<<<<<

Then why spend so much time on the title. Why not discuss the article?

The article really leaves nothing to discuss. It's about a buncha people behaving badly and acting like spoiled children over something that is extremely important to the solvency of the country. Not much meat and a ton of bun.

[cereb]

I will have to continue this later, I have an appointment. Thanks for not running away Henry, I appreciate the effort.

[henryclay]

cereb,

Thanks for not running away Henry, I appreciate the effort.

Thank you for the comment, and I hope you don't mind if I take it as presented; that you really do appreciate it.

Beyond that I hardly think we agree on what the article is about. I read it as a report on something like how a bankrupt individual, who is drunk on the ease with which credit has been obtained, and with no appreciation for the labors of the people from whom he has obtained the very credit that now has him in bankruptcy, (which is an application to relieve him of having to repay the credited money and restore those from whom it was taken), could be so upset and offended when someone tells him his credit is bad, and his credibility is not far behind. In short, I read it as the Democrats are reacting poorly to any thought that someone would say they are no longer good credit risks.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 16, 2011 11:19:26 GMT -5 henryclay said:

cereb,

Thanks for not running away Henry, I appreciate the effort.

Thank you for the comment, and I hope you don't mind if I take it as presented; that you really do appreciate it.

Beyond that I hardly think we agree on what the article is about. I read it as a report on something like how a bankrupt individual, who is drunk on the ease with which credit has been obtained, and with no appreciation for the labors of the people from whom he has obtained the very credit that now has him in bankruptcy, (which is an application to relieve him of having to repay the credited money and restore those from whom it was taken), could be so upset and offended when someone tells him his credit is bad, and his credibility is not far behind. In short, I read it as the Democrats are reacting poorly to any thought that someone would say they are no longer good credit risks.

if i said i agreed with you, would you also consider that the GOP has lost all credibility with their "cutting taxes will balance the budget" nonsense?

[henryclay]

if i said i agreed with you, would you also consider that the GOP has lost all credibility with their "cutting taxes will balance the budget" nonsense?

Say it this way and we've got a deal.

if i said i agreed with you, would you also consider that the GOP has lost all credibility with their "cutting taxes will balance the budget" nonsense?

But the deal has to include cutting spending first. I think that's backwards from the Democrat's approach. It seems the Democrats want to cut tax breaks that the entire country has been behind and increase spending, which only the "takers" and Democrats in office are behind. As an example one set of figures I saw said the federal government has grown by 107 (plus) thousand employees since Obama took office. 107 thousand people is 5% of the federal workforce. That 107,000 workers removed from the taxpayer rolls and placed on the tax taker rolls.

If each worker had been paying an average of $5,000 in taxes, it takes over 535 million dollars out of the taxes being paid and if each of those workers has ONLY a $50,000 annual salary it pulls over 5.350 BILLION out of the treasury, , , AND there is no one to replace it. They are now government employees. Not a good swap.

To go further, it is no wonder Obama says we need more infrastructure construction. Otherwise where would they put 107 thousand workers? Never mind housing, schools, beauty shops and Walmart stores for them to spend all the salaries they're collecting from the tax money the rest us pay.

And then there's the cost of their medical care and retirement benefits , , , but you probably don't want to consider those things just yet.