thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,439
|
Post by thyme4change on Jul 15, 2011 15:12:51 GMT -5
Riverside, California (CNN) -- A conservative county supervisor in Southern California wants to form the 51st state by seceding the region from California, saying the state's problems require "radical" solutions. "Listen, I knew I'd be criticized. I learned in my tenure of being a politician for 19 years, sometimes you have to do radical things to get people's attention," Riverside County Supervisor Jeff Stone said on CNN Thursday. "We have hit a nerve with citizens who are just fed up with business as usual in the state," Stone said. "I'm talking about a secession plan from the state of California." This week, the Riverside County Board of Supervisors gave the OK to Stone to hold a summit of California's local leaders to discuss remedies for the state's long list of woes -- including secession. But the county board stopped short of endorsing Stone's secessionist plan by insisting no taxpayer money be used for the conference. Stone has come up with a name for the new state: South California. It would be composed of 13 largely Republican counties, most of which are inland along the Nevada and Arizona state lines. The plan would exclude Los Angeles County, but would include Orange and San Diego Counties, both on the coast. Stone has a long list of grievances against the state and its legislators: high taxes and fees, inability to reform welfare programs, high unemployment and excessive regulations. www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/14/california.secession/index.html?hpt=us_c2
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Jul 15, 2011 15:16:59 GMT -5
How many times have we heard about southern california wanting to break away and be the 51st state?? Just a lot of fluff IMHO..
|
|
|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Jul 15, 2011 15:33:11 GMT -5
How many times have we heard about southern california wanting to break away and be the 51st state?? Just a lot of fluff IMHO.. This is akin to about every 5 or 6 years George Steinbrenner would threaten to move to NJ if the city of NYC did not provide the Yankees with some big subsidy or something. Everyone would freak out and meltdown.
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,858
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 15, 2011 15:48:22 GMT -5
No one in California takes anything seriously from Riverside County.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Jul 15, 2011 16:18:19 GMT -5
When I lived in Orange County they talked about splitting southern from northern California because they were paying so much in property taxes and not being represented by a conservative but rather a liberal senator and congresswoman...
|
|
sesfw
Junior Associate
Today is the first day of the rest of my life
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 15:45:17 GMT -5
Posts: 6,268
|
Post by sesfw on Jul 15, 2011 16:22:45 GMT -5
I remember as a teen (50 years ago) people in So Calif wanting to get away from Sacramento politics. Right now I think it's the illegals wanting to 'divide and conquer'.
I notice that LA County is not included in this proposal and that's a wise idea. IMO politics in Sacramento and Los Angeles are a matched pair.
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,858
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 15, 2011 16:23:39 GMT -5
There have been at least 220 secession attempts in California since the 1850s. The fact that people keep trying to split the state reflects both frustration with government and hunger for a magical fix.
In response to this latest bid, Governor Brown's spokesman, Gil Duran, said, "If you want to live in a Republican state with very conservative right-wing laws, then there's a place called Arizona."
Support for Stone's idea isn't limited to conservatives. There are people on the left who'd love to have a version of California to call their own. The liberal San Francisco Bay Guardian editorializes:
"Imagine what would happen if Supervisor Stone got his way. ... Democrats would control two-thirds of both houses and could pass a budget that included higher taxes on the rich and big corporations. ... Same-sex marriage would pass the first week. Pot would be legal. The death penalty would be gone in a year or two.
"And let's remember: those counties that want to leave? They elect representatives who won't vote for taxes -- but they are the biggest beneficiaries of state revenues. The northern and coastal counties, the more liberal ones, pay more in taxes than we get in services. Our taxpayers are subsidizing their tax haters.
"So go on -- leave. We'll keep our money here."
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jul 15, 2011 17:19:11 GMT -5
Molly..not saying I favor or don't favor either of those three possible events, but so what if they did. Think about it a minute.
The big three as you posted.
"Same-sex marriage would pass the first week. Pot would be legal. The death penalty would be gone in a year or two."
So same sex mariage would be legal, how would that affect you and yours?
Pot being legal, there is so much being used in your State now, here if legal, small quantities for personal use, possible it would be taxed, if sold legally, almost a industry, possible giving some legal jobs to those in the State, possible cut down on non violent incarcerated ones know who are in Jails, even Prisons, because of their dealing,possessions, and the cost of law enforcement in $ cost and time spent on the problem, and as far as one being under the influence if driving for example, same as alcohol..caught being under the influence, heavy penalties..as if those who smoke and drive now are actually not doing so?
Death penalty no longer..so what. Are you executing that many a year now that it is a big deal , or are you finding that the appeal part of it is long and costly. There are so many States now were it is illegal and then states were legal but rarly used but the expense of keeping those folks seperated from the reguler Prison population, it is a very expensive situation plus the expense of appeals that last for decades..
All three of these biggies in your mind, you brought then up, not I, are they going to add jobs, cut taxes, solve Califiornias problems?
Just asking...
|
|
Mad Dawg Wiccan
Administrator
Rest in Peace
Only Bites Whiners
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 20:40:24 GMT -5
Posts: 9,693
|
Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 15, 2011 17:52:10 GMT -5
Molly didn't say it was either good or bad, she merely pointed out that some liberals like the idea as well.
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,858
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 15, 2011 18:08:21 GMT -5
I merely quoted an editorial from the Bay Guardian to show that it's not just conservatives who favor such a split. Discussions about my opinions on gay marriage, legalizing marijuana, and the death penalty would be off-topic for this thread.
|
|
verrip1
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:41:19 GMT -5
Posts: 2,992
|
Post by verrip1 on Jul 15, 2011 19:17:52 GMT -5
All Riverside County needs to do to be an economically viable State is to institute a tax on the manufacture of crystal meth.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Jul 15, 2011 19:22:45 GMT -5
July 15, 2011, 5:23 PM ET.Politician Dreams Of Carving New State Out Of California. Southern California’s Riverside County has voted to host a statewide summit on governance to discuss, among other topics, the possible secession of southern counties from the state, the Associated Press reports. Jeff Stone, a Republican on the county’s Board of Supervisors, proposed on Tuesday that 13, mostly inland counties – a grouping that excludes L.A. County – form the country’s 51st state, “South California,” according to the L.A. Times. Stone’s proposal stems from his concerns that California, given its size and financial state, is “ungovernable,” and also from frustration with Sacramento over what Stone deems “runaway spending” using local government money, according to the AP. A spokesman for California Governor Jerry Brown, a Democrat, characterized the proposal as a political stunt and a waste of time, the L.A. Times story said. County officials modified Stone’s original proposal by deciding to include representatives from throughout the state – and not just the 13 counties Stone suggested – and by broadening the topic to improving California state governance, the AP wrote. The county’s decision also came with a caveat: officials cannot draw on public coffers in building momentum for the secessionist movement. But even if public money were available, the proposal would not likely pass, according to ABC News. The U.S. Constitution requires both Congress and the state legislature to approve of any request for secession. “Secession proposals are…ways for people who feel neglected [to] get the attention that they deserve,” USC historian Kevin Starr told the L.A. Times. “It’s never passed, and it will never pass. It’s been up to bat 220 times and struck out every time.” The proposed 51st state would encompass about 13 million people, making it the country’s fifth largest. The move would also make the remaining part of California the second largest state, behind Texas, according to the L.A. Times. blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/07/15/politician-dreams-of-carving-new-state-out-of-california/tab/print/
|
|
handyman2
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 23:56:33 GMT -5
Posts: 3,087
|
Post by handyman2 on Jul 15, 2011 19:30:59 GMT -5
If it was not for giving up San Diego, one of my favorite cities when I visit Ca. I would say sell southern Ca. to Mexico. I also love Northern Ca. Any way we could get rid of the middle part?
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jul 15, 2011 21:15:12 GMT -5
I merely quoted an editorial from the Bay Guardian to show that it's not just conservatives who favor such a split. Discussions about my opinions on gay marriage, legalizing marijuana, and the death penalty would be off-topic for this thread. I missed the quote of the guardian, saw it as your feelings of possible importance..as far as being a bit off topic for the thread..since when has that been a problem here? I would reply to the "The liberal San Francisco Bay Guardian" the same way, so what, if those three things happened, no biggie as far as your, Californias problems, no affect on them, and to bring such up in a editorial is just fear mongering, to get people riled up rather then really discuss the problems and issues.
|
|
Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
|
Post by Bluerobin on Jul 16, 2011 7:04:07 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be a hoot if the US did not grant them statehood?
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,858
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 16, 2011 20:55:53 GMT -5
If it was not for giving up San Diego, one of my favorite cities when I visit Ca. I would say sell southern Ca. to Mexico. I also love Northern Ca. Any way we could get rid of the middle part? Hey! Some of us live in the middle part. And, assuming you eat fruits and veggies, a substantial amount of your produce comes from here, too.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 16, 2011 20:57:22 GMT -5
When I lived in Orange County they talked about splitting southern from northern California because they were paying so much in property taxes and not being represented by a conservative but rather a liberal senator and congresswoman... well, PI, it certainly hasn't always been that way. ;]
|
|
verrip1
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:41:19 GMT -5
Posts: 2,992
|
Post by verrip1 on Jul 16, 2011 21:33:40 GMT -5
One CA split off plan was the State of Jefferson (things always sound better when named after a founding father, I guess). It included a few counties in the far north of California (Modoc, Lassen and Siskiyou, I think) and one county on the Oregon side. Various plans to split CA into northern and southern states have been yakked about over the years. I recall one split was just below Bakersfield. Another started north of San Francisco and jogged down to about Stockton, then due east. There has been a history of the northern part of the state disliking the south for many years. It had to do with the south having the fastest population growth, requiring the most infrastructure, and taking water away from the north and central parts to water landscaping in the cities and desert. Dern lala landers!
|
|