Obama anti gun owner order defunded

[henryclay]

At least that's what the legislation is intended to do.

As we reported yesterday, this procedure was proposed last fall as an “emergency" measure by BATFE. Specifically, it calls for all of the firearm retailers in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting a detachable magazine purchased by a single individual in a five consecutive business day period. It is important to note that under existing law, BATFE already has full access to every dealer’s firearm transaction records, either during a bona fide criminal investigation or simply to enforce compliance with record keeping requirements. This new reporting procedure would create a registry of owners of many of today's most popular rifles--firearms owned by millions of Americans for self-defense, hunting and other lawful purposes. Most importantly, however, the BATFE has no legal authority to demand these reports.

www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6989

[handyman2]

GOOD. Spoken like a true NRA member.

[kimber45]

It's something that we already have to do for multiple handgun purchases, even that is extreme.

[billisonboard]

...report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting a detachable magazine purchased by a single individual in a five consecutive business day period.

Good.

[bubblyandblue]

A lot of this came out in recognition that most arms used in Mexican drug violence are being purchased in the USA. They want to limit this embarrassment.

[Deleted]

Gun ownership & registration is always a hot topic. I do have a little mixed feeling about it because I really know so little about the nuts & bolts of the registration process. For instance just putting down the serial number would be pretty meaningless if you didn't also give a sample of a fired bullet from it. Serial numbers can be filed off.

Since it looks like the right to have a gun is pretty much settled I have to assume that registration would be for catching criminals or finding which gun was used in a crime. Registration would only be used to return it to the owner if it was stolen? (I see no other reason for it).

I don't understand the purpose of endless lists of who owns what gun (without sample bullets). Then you get into shotguns that can't be traced by the bullet. The whole thing just seems like the program was developed to have a list of all people with guns & maybe some other reason that we don't know about? Just seems strange to me.

[floridayankee]

Jul 15, 2011 10:11:19 GMT -5 @bubblyandblue said:

A lot of this came out in recognition that most arms used in Mexican drug violence are being purchased in the USA. They want to limit this embarrassment.

The USA allowed to happen.

Operation Fast and Furious - "Obama's Watergate" as one pundit put it - established in 2009, and Project Gunrunner, established in 2005, were ATF programs aimed at stopping guns from getting into the hands of criminals in Mexico. The ultimate goal was to track the flow of arms and determine how the market functioned, but the initiative has had an unsurprisingly disastrous effect.

The mission allowed U.S. officials to permit "straw purchasers" to buy guns - hundreds of them at once, sometimes - and then to sell them to Mexican drug cartels while the ATF sat idly by, doing nothing to stop it. (Straw purchasers legally purchase weapons in the U.S. with the known intention of later trafficking them to drug cartels).

Read more: www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/07/14/2011-07-14_fast_furious_and_wrong_obama_administration_faces_outrage_over_guns_in_mexico.html#ixzz1SBjELHfY

And, as far as your claim that the drug cartels get most of their guns are from the US.

U.S. Embassy Cables: 90 Percent of Mexican Drug Cartels' Most Lethal Weapons Come From Central America--Not USA

www.cnsnews.com/news/article/us-embassy-cables-90-percent-most-lethal

[bubblyandblue]

If you want to avoid the whole registration business - just go to a gun show and buy up anything you want.

[handyman2]

Bubbly it is obvious you have never been to a legally registered gun show.

[kimber45]

"If you want to avoid the whole registration business - just go to a gun show and buy up anything you want. "


Better yet, just go steal them like most criminals do....

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

For instance just putting down the serial number would be pretty meaningless if you didn't also give a sample of a fired bullet from it. Serial numbers can be filed off.

Barells can be easily replaced, and modern forensics can "read" filed off serial numbers.

[ed1066]

Jul 15, 2011 10:29:48 GMT -5 @bubblyandblue said:

If you want to avoid the whole registration business - just go to a gun show and buy up anything you want.

That may be the most uninformed statement I have ever read on this board...

[ed1066]

Jul 14, 2011 19:23:06 GMT -5 henryclay said:

At least that's what the legislation is intended to do.

As we reported yesterday, this procedure was proposed last fall as an “emergency" measure by BATFE. Specifically, it calls for all of the firearm retailers in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting a detachable magazine purchased by a single individual in a five consecutive business day period. It is important to note that under existing law, BATFE already has full access to every dealer’s firearm transaction records, either during a bona fide criminal investigation or simply to enforce compliance with record keeping requirements. This new reporting procedure would create a registry of owners of many of today's most popular rifles--firearms owned by millions of Americans for self-defense, hunting and other lawful purposes. Most importantly, however, the BATFE has no legal authority to demand these reports.

www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6989

Well, I guess I'm busted, because I just bought two AR-15s and a shotgun at the same time last week.

[handyman2]

This message has been deleted.

[handyman2]

Well I personally thing the bill is a good thing. Here is why. The more paperwork the BATF has to process the more confused they get. So flood them with paperwork and they won't be able to keep track of anything. In other words drown them with info and they will it all in a warehouse to be found in 2095.

[txbo]

Jul 15, 2011 11:48:22 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Jul 14, 2011 19:23:06 GMT -5 henryclay said:

At least that's what the legislation is intended to do.

As we reported yesterday, this procedure was proposed last fall as an “emergency" measure by BATFE. Specifically, it calls for all of the firearm retailers in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting a detachable magazine purchased by a single individual in a five consecutive business day period. It is important to note that under existing law, BATFE already has full access to every dealer’s firearm transaction records, either during a bona fide criminal investigation or simply to enforce compliance with record keeping requirements. This new reporting procedure would create a registry of owners of many of today's most popular rifles--firearms owned by millions of Americans for self-defense, hunting and other lawful purposes. Most importantly, however, the BATFE has no legal authority to demand these reports.

www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6989

Well, I guess I'm busted, because I just bought two AR-15s and a shotgun at the same time last week.

I just finished building my AR15 this week with spare parts.

Upper Receiver - Bushmaster
Lower Receiver - Yankee Hill
Barrel - Colt 1/7 Twist
Buttstock - Bushmaster
Total Cost $210

i87.photobucket.com/albums/k122/txbo/AR151366.jpg[/img]

[bubblyandblue]

I was refering to the lack of background checks at gun shows when purchasing a gun/

[ed1066]

Jul 15, 2011 12:36:22 GMT -5 @bubblyandblue said:

I was refering to the lack of background checks at gun shows when purchasing a gun/

I realize that, and you're still very ignorant of how gun shows work. Why don't you attend one and tell a seller that you want to buy a gun but don't want a background check, then come back here and report to us how it went...

[txbo]

There are two types of transaction that take place at some gun shows the legal aboveground inside the building and the illegal underground in the parking lot.

[ed1066]

Jul 15, 2011 12:25:23 GMT -5 txbo said:

Jul 15, 2011 11:48:22 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Well, I guess I'm busted, because I just bought two AR-15s and a shotgun at the same time last week.

I just finished building my AR15 this week with spare parts.

Upper Receiver - Bushmaster
Lower Receiver - Yankee Hill
Barrel - Colt 1/7 Twist
Buttstock - Bushmaster
Total Cost $210

i87.photobucket.com/albums/k122/txbo/AR151366.jpg

[/img][/quote]

Nice. How did you get a Bushmaster upper and a Colt barrel for that kind of money? Just the upper around here would be more than your total.

[handyman2]

TXBO: That was a heck of a savings. The bottom dollar on ready to rock and roll units are around $900.00 bucks plus shipping, insurance, and local licensed dealer delivery charges.
I will have to look at that. I have seen them with chrome barrel minus the receiver for around $599.00

[handyman2]

TXBO; can you list your suppliers? Thanks Handy

[txbo]

Jul 15, 2011 13:03:43 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

TXBO: That was a heck of a savings. The bottom dollar on ready to rock and roll units are around $900.00 bucks plus shipping, insurance, and local licensed dealer delivery charges.
I will have to look at that. I have seen them with chrome barrel minus the receiver for around $599.00

My son customizes firearms for friends and acquaintances and he had extra parts laying around. I had to buy the lower receiver for $140 plus some other small parts that added up to $210.

[bubblyandblue]

Hey ed1066, don't call me ignorant -

[ed1066]

Jul 15, 2011 13:31:28 GMT -5 @bubblyandblue said:

Hey ed1066, don't call me ignorant -

I didn't, I said you are ignorant of how gun shows work, which is very obviously true...

[bubblyandblue]

I stand corrected

Buying a gun at a gun store involves a background check, but buying one at a gun show doesn’t. The reality is that any individual holding a federal firearms license (the permit needed to sell firearms as a business) must perform background checks on anyone he or she sells guns to, regardless of whether the sale occurs in a store, at a gun show or anywhere else. Such sellers account for the majority at gun shows.

Gun sales that require no background check are those in which the seller does not hold a federal firearms license. For instance, I don’t have a license, and if I didn’t want my deer rifle anymore and decided to sell it to a friend, the sale would not require a background check, whether it occurred at a gun show or in my living room.

It’s true that ordinary gun owners sometimes go to gun shows to sell guns they don’t want anymore, but gun shows are certainly not the only place where such sales occur. The vast majority of the guns sold at gun shows cannot be bought without a background check.

[ed1066]

Gun sales that require no background check are those in which the seller does not hold a federal firearms license. For instance, I don’t have a license, and if I didn’t want my deer rifle anymore and decided to sell it to a friend, the sale would not require a background check, whether it occurred at a gun show or in my living room.

That simply isn't true. If you do not have an FFL, you cannot sell a gun to someone who also doesn't have one. If you sell a gun to a friend and neither of you have an FFL, you need to go through a dealer who does, and the background check will occur. And EVERY modern firearm sale at a gun show must include a background check and the appropriate waiting period for that type of firearm.

You have been deceived by the lies of anti-gun propaganda, which would have you believe that gun shows are the equivalent of an illegal arms market in some third-world hellhole. Go to a show sometime, please, for your own information so you don't sound clueless on a message board...

[bubblyandblue]

Ed1066, could you cite the laws and in which states they are applicable. I certainly don't want to be decieved by propaganda and would find it informational. Thanks

[ed1066]

Jul 15, 2011 14:09:24 GMT -5 @bubblyandblue said:

Ed1066, could you cite the laws and in which states they are applicable. I certainly don't want to be decieved by propaganda and would find it informational. Thanks

I'm referring to federal laws. There are other laws pertaining to gun shows, waiting periods and transfer requirements in different states, but what I have outlined are the basic federal laws. Your local gun store can give you a better overview of state laws...

[EVT1]

Ed's way off in the woods- you are correct bubbly private sales person to person are perfectly legal and do not require background checks or any form of registration.