Is the Pope the AntiChrist?

[ugonow]

Another hit piece by NRO?----www.nationalreview.com/corner/271889/bachmann-belonged-church-believed-pope-was-anti-christ-katrina-trinko

[Virgil Showlion]

In before the lock. ;D

[floridayankee]

Bachmann Belonged to Church that Believed Pope was Anti-Christ

I'm guessing that the church a presidential candidate used to belong to all of the sudden matters now?

[mmhmm]

Pretty stupid. While I'm certainly no Bachmann fan, she doesn't belong to the church now, and there are a whole raft of people who belong to various churches that espouse various stances with which an individual member might not agree. This is just muck-raking, nothing more.

[ugonow]

You don't think anyone will object to an NRO article about Bachmann's church do you? I mean it's not like it is a leftie site bashing her.....

[ugonow]

I'm guessing that the church a presidential candidate used to belong to all of the sudden matters now?

Not even media worthy......

[safeharbor37]

Anyone who has an opinion is a bigot to somebody.

[floridayankee]

Jul 14, 2011 11:50:33 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Not even media worthy......

Have you ever researched Martin Luther...the founder of the Lutheran church? The entire reason he broke off from main stream Catholics was because of a difference in what the Pope was teaching.

Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546) was a German priest and professor of theology who initiated the Protestant Reformation.[1] He strongly disputed the claim that freedom from God's punishment of sin could be purchased with money. He confronted indulgence salesman Johann Tetzel with his Ninety-Five Theses in 1517. His refusal to retract all of his writings at the demand of Pope Leo X in 1520 and the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms in 1521 resulted in his excommunication by the pope and condemnation as an outlaw by the emperor.

Luther taught that salvation is not earned by good deeds but received only as a free gift of God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ as redeemer from sin. His theology challenged the authority of the pope of the Roman Catholic Church by teaching that the Bible is the only source of divinely revealed knowledge[2] and opposed sacerdotalism by considering all baptized Christians to be a holy priesthood.[3] Those who identify with Luther's teachings are called Lutherans.

It's not too far fetched that a religion based on a dispute with the Pope would have a negative view of the Pope, is it?

But, if you feel it's important, by all means, carry on.

This is just muck-raking, nothing more.

And we have a winner.....K for you mmhmm.

[handyman2]

By the way if you want to know, look up how many former Presidents were Lutheran. You just might be surprised.
By the way Martin Luther never abandoned the Catholic church nor founded the Lutheran church. It was those who were followers of Martin Luther's teachings who formed the church in Germany. He actually discouraged it. He was against the church raising money by selling indulgences.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

No.

[cme1201]

So how many swings does it take to make you tired when you bash religion repeatedly?

[bubblyandblue]

There seems to be a general agreement that religion in politics is wrong if it helps the other side.

[mmhmm]

Guys, really. This is just muck-raking and nothing more, as I said previously. I could lock the silly thread, but that's giving it more attention than it deserves, in my opinion. Just let it go and ignore it. The premise is ludicrous and waaaay beneath all of you.

[safeharbor37]

ugonow
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Is the Pope the Anti-Christ?
« Thread Started Today at 11:41am »
Another hit piece by NRO?----http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/271....-katrina-trinko

I don't think so. I suspect that National Review is just trying to put the question to rest rather than wait for some opponent to bring it up at some opportune moment.
The anti-Christ is is an interesting topic, but hardly anyone knows enough to intelligently discuss it and some who think they are are ill-informed or have a view biased by their beliefs. As a general rule, anti-Christ is not a political topic, but since Napoleon and Hitler have been widely accused of being it [or one], it tends to creep into political discussions.
For what it's worth, believing the Pope to be the Anti-Christ is not necessarily a prejudice against Catholics, just a distrust of the Pope [and probably the Catholic hierarchy].

[safeharbor37]

For those who trace the papacy in an unbroken lineage back to Saint Peter, "On this rock I found my church," it is also the height of insanity because they are essentially accusing the anti-Christ of founding Christianity.

There are those who ,with legitimate reason, consider the Catholic Church as a perverter of Christianity rather than its founder. Also the Biblical quote is open to interpretation as is the official history of the Catholic Church.
This is not the sort of argument that is good to use to choose US Presidents.

[ed1066]

Jul 14, 2011 15:42:08 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Guys, really. This is just muck-raking and nothing more, as I said previously. I could lock the silly thread, but that's giving it more attention than it deserves, in my opinion. Just let it go and ignore it. The premise is ludicrous and waaaay beneath all of you.

I think someone just got off on typing the words "Pope" and "anti-Christ" in the same sentence. He probably typed it with one hand, too, if you know what I mean...

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2011 11:44:14 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

In before the lock. ;D

Aren't you supposed to be the guy that locks it?

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2011 15:42:08 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Guys, really. This is just muck-raking and nothing more, as I said previously. I could lock the silly thread, but that's giving it more attention than it deserves, in my opinion. Just let it go and ignore it. The premise is ludicrous and waaaay beneath all of you.

Are you new here?

[steff]

After all the moving of child abusers, covering up the abuse, damn near offering up fresh innocent children for abuse by priests.... I can see where it's not much of a stretch to think the Pope in charge of some major evil. The abuse goes back decades and is world wide.... much more along the lines of what real evil is & does.

[ugonow]

I think someone just got off on typing the words "Pope" and "anti-Christ" in the same sentence. He probably typed it with one hand, too, if you know what I mean...

Are you talking about the writer at NRO?Actually, ed I was raised Catholic. I wonder what the hatred for Catholics is based on? Reverend Hagee and his CUFI has a thing against them also,calling them the antiChrist, whores,and worshipers of a false God.. Glenn Beck recently was the talk of Catholics recently for some remarks about their Catechism.He also upset them by featuring Hagee on his show.

[ugonow]

But if I posted about the Pope eating a high calorie lunch,it would be different ................

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2011 12:11:39 GMT -5 ugonow said:

But if I posted about the Pope eating a high colorie lunch,it would be different ................

Or the Pope getting a high colonic at lunch...

[ed1066]

Are you talking about the writer at NRO?

I don't know. He wrote it, you reposted it. Probably both of you, I guess...I don't understand the liberal hatred for religion. I'm not Catholic, either, so I don't really have an opinion on the Pope...

[jkapp]

>>Is the Pope the AntiChrist?<<

I would imagine the Anti-Christ would have more influence than the Pope does right now...

Now if someone had asked if a Pope during the Dark Ages were the Anti-Christ then you might have had a good argument considering the vast wealth and influence the Church had back then.

[safeharbor37]

"Antichrist" is the English translation of the original Koine Greek ἀντίχριστος, pronounced än-tē'-khrē-stos. It is made up of two root words, αντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). "Αντί" can mean not only “against” and “opposite of”, but also “in place of",[2] "Χριστός", translated "Christ", is Greek for the Hebrew "Messiah" meaning "anointed," and refers to Jesus of Nazareth[3] within Christian theology....Some commentators, both ancient and modern, identify the Man of Sin in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 as the Antichrist, even though they vary greatly in who they view the Antichrist to be.[9] They argue that Paul uses the term "Man of Sin" (sometimes translated son of perdition or man of lawlessness) to describe what John identifies as the Antichrist.[10]

Paul writes that this Man of Sin will possess a number of characteristics. These include "sitting in the temple", opposing himself against anything that is worshiped, claiming divine authority,[11] working all kinds of counterfeit miracles and signs,[12] and doing all kinds of evil.[13] Paul notes that "the mystery of lawlessness"[14] (though not the Man of Sin himself) was working in secret already during his day and will continue to function until being destroyed on the Last Day.[15] His identity is to be revealed after that which is restraining him is removed.[15][16]

The term is also sometimes applied to prophecies regarding a "Little horn" power in Daniel 7.[17] Daniel 9:27 mentions an "abomination that causes desolations" setting itself up in a "wing" or a "pinnacle" of the temple.[18] Some scholars interpret this as referring to the Antichrist.[19] Some commentators also view the verses prior to this as referring to the Antichrist.[20] Jesus references the abomination from Daniel 9:27 in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14[21] when he warns about the destruction of Jerusalem. Daniel 11:36-37[22] speaks of a self exalting king, considered by some to be the Antichrist.[23]...The term "Antichrist" is widely used through popular culture, and most prominently in punk subculture. This trend was spurred by the Sex Pistols' song "Anarchy in the UK", in which lead singer Johnny Rotten proclaimed that he was the Antichrist. After the release of the song, adherents of the punk culture began to use the word as a term to describe someone who very vulgar, crude, or rebellious. However, after Johnny Rotten's denouncement of useless violence in his years with Public Image Ltd, this trend began to subside with those who had used it for the sheer sake of being "punk". It is now used in the fringe groups of anarcho-punks and is most commonly used to describe those who practice violent and sensational forms of anarchy. American Professional wrestler (Jeff Hardy) calls himself the "Anti-christ of Professional wrestling". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antichrist

See what a can of worms you can get into. Some do not consider the antichrist a man at all, but several men at different times or groups or even [like "God"] spirit. A lot depends on how you define it, but still it is unllikely to satisfy many at one time.

[safeharbor37]

I wasn't referring to the "Protestants" as such but to the Gnostics who did not believe that Jesus ever authorized a Church hierarchy. Now, some protestants have picked up on that which, combined with the fact of Catholic persecution of Protestants as well as Gnostics, has led some to believe that the actual structure of the Catholic Church is anti-scriptural as well as non-scriptural like many of the traditions, particularly regarding the Virgin Mary.
This has nothing to do with the fact that we find perverts everywhere. It is a legitimate subject of inquiry.
The problem is that many "Christians" have never read the Bible or bothered to learn much about it, particularly Catholics. [Not a slam on Catholics, it's just the way it is.] That's why it's usually pointless to discuss it.

[handyman2]

There are good honest well meaning peoples in all religions. Then there are those who hide behind a cloak of respectability all the while violating the religious tenents of church teachings. You can not judge a religion by these people. They are not truly converted and some ministers who use the church to further their own gain. They will get their just rewards in time.

[chiver78]

Jul 15, 2011 23:12:37 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

People take advantage of the cloak of respectability that religions can wrap around one. Within my own Christian tradition, not taking into consideration other traditions possibility as valid and with which I have less familiarity, there are many warnings not to confuse the APPEARANCE of holiness with the fact. We are also warned that kindness shows up in odd, places among despised people, i.e. the parable of the Good Samaritan.

I don't get terribly offended when people mention the pervert priests in our church. The hierarchy fell down on the job and everyone involved has to wear the egg on its face. There are sins of omission as well as commission and this is a classic.

It would be a disservice to localize this entirely within the Catholic Church as I have seen many predators and all do not wear a cleric's collar or say the rosary. To harbor such blind prejudice that they do is to not look askance at real examples in front of one's eyes that don't fit the stereotype.

Then too, we will get a disproportionate number of the nuts that groove that way because a Roman Catholic cleric is part of a unified church under one head, while within Protestant Churches there can be scores of flavors of "Baptist" alone and all are governed by different synods, bishoprics, whatever so a nutty "Primitive Baptist" may not reflect on a "Black Baptist" let alone a nutty Episcopalian, Lutheran, or Mormon reflecting on each other's churches.

that's a lot of valid stuff, toughtimes. I'm a recovering Catholic but it's more because of the organized religion aspect (and not questioning the hierarchy, I guess) and that my upbringing insists I question anything and everything that doesn't make sense - and to find my own peace with what I learn in the process. what I'm trying to say is that I was gone without the sexual abuse scandal. to each his own, I guess.

as far as this current Pope, I wouldn't go so far as to call him the anti-Christ. he does have quite a bit of hypocrisy in his own house, though, with how he's addressing things as the Pope vs. how he handled them as a Cardinal. IMHO, a little less controversy would go a long way for him. but then again, I'm just a recovering Catholic. what do I know?