Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 13, 2011 14:45:34 GMT -5
We' re tentatively planning a trip to Italy next spring with some friends. Initially, my plan was to use our AA miles (we have 130K). Well, we only have enough miles for one free ticket and it will cost over $1700 to buy the second ticket. Worse, every AA flight from Seattle involved a 24 hour layover either at O'Hare or JFK. Ugh.
So I started searching fares from different sites (Hotwire, Kayak, Cheapoair, Cheaptickets, Vayana, etc)...
We can route through Toronto, Frankfurt, Istanbul (via LAX), Zurich... the list goes on and on. Some of the layovers are ridiculous. The shortest was 30 minutes - really? The longest was 24 hours..
I'm considering SEA to Venice via Frankfurt and returning Rome to Seattle via either Newark or Frankfurt. ($2500 to $2700 for two including taxes).
Or an interesting idea: Seattle to LAX to Istanbul. Overnight layover (get a hotel, dinner a little sightseeing) then Istanbul to Venice the next morning. Returning Rome - Istanbul - LAX - Seattle. Turkish Airlines - $2372 for 2 incl taxes.
My head is hurting.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 13, 2011 14:52:32 GMT -5
And that is just the start of it. Make sure that you see all added fees before you do anything. I booked a ticket to Europe a few months ago and all these websites provided different information. All fees included meant different things on these sites. Hope that gets better when the new law requiring disclosure of fees up front gets applied. But I am not sure it works for these sites too. So to get around it I opened multiple windows to compare prices. Do you need someone to help with suitcases per chance? I might volunteer
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 15:14:59 GMT -5
I highly recommend overnight layovers. The airlines are becoming far less reliable and since they're now reducing the # of flights and packing them to the gills, you have less chance of getting on the next flight if you miss a connection. You have a much bigger safety margin if you have an overnight stay.
I like the Turkish Airlines option! I flew them once when I missed a Sabena flight out of Brussels years ago (Turkish had a Brussels-Newark nonstop back then). Where else could I have seen "the Beverly Hillbillies" movie subtitled in Turkish?
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 13, 2011 15:30:09 GMT -5
Unless you're doing the "Amazing Race" I'd take the 24 hour layover and do some sightseeing. Enjoy the journey as well as the destination.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 13, 2011 15:34:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind a 24 hour layover in somplace exotic... I've been to Chicago enough times that the idea doesn't thrill me.
I AM intrigued by the idea of Istanbul, however. The flight gets in about 5:00 pm and the next morning leaves about 11 am.
I also have realized that we could use our AA miles for two free tickets if we move the date back into April instead of May. But the weather will be iffier - we like to take photos, so bad weather would really be a bummer.
I've created a spreadsheet - next weekend we are getting together with the friends and brainstorming. One of them has limited vacation time, so all of the plans are based on her getting the time off.
Thanks for the input - esp about Turkish Airlines....
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sapphire12
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Post by sapphire12 on Jul 13, 2011 15:40:05 GMT -5
I second the recommendation for Turkish Airlines and seeing what you can of Istanbul. Istanbul is my favorite city. Shopping at the Grand Bazaar is like no other. The Blue Mosque is fascinating, or at least it was to me. Good luck.
You also might want to try a travel agent to get feel for prices and flight itineraries, even if you choose not to use them. I've used Amex and AAA for this purpose. Smaller travel agents could also do the job.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 13, 2011 16:37:48 GMT -5
grandma, you might consider some creative routing. Aer Lingus may still have a late afternoon flight out of LAX. Route like this. Hop a domestic flight from Seatac to LAX. The 5:30 PM Aer Lingus flight non-stop to Dublin, arriving about 11:30 AM Dublin time. Then Ryan Air or one of the low cost European airlines from Dublin to Italy.
The advantage of this strategy is that there are many more flight choices on either end of the trip as they are essentially domestic, rather than transoceanic flights.
We also like to fly Aer Lingus because the seats are more comfortable for a long flight. We did the return flight on American one trip. By the time we got to LAX, my rear end felt like I'd been sitting on a piece of wood for the entire flight.
As someone suggested, you could negotiate a flat fee for your group and have a travel agent figure out the routing for you.
Just a thought. When we were looking at flights to Paris about a year ago, we found that if you depart from home before about May 15th, the airfare was several hundred dollars cheaper. It appears that high season pricing starts the middle of May.
You might also look into group rates, if you will have a fairly large group. When I checked, some airlines offered group rates to groups as small as 7 people. Air France offered group rates to groups of 10 or more.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 13, 2011 16:48:29 GMT -5
ugh...Aer Lingus has much older planes than Lufthansa - which would be what she'd fly through Frankfurt. I'd almost prefer a coach LH trip than a business class EI one. the food's even pretty good. the equalizer between the two is that you will clear US Customs before you leave either Germany or Ireland, which is nice. most of my business travel has been to Europe, and I've found that airports will bump domestic flights in order to get international ones out on time. I doubt there will be major problems making connections over there. I'm pretty jealous of Istanbul, though. that sounds like a cool option if you can work it! good luck with the planning.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 13, 2011 17:00:34 GMT -5
chiver, I like your Lufthansa idea. Obviously you have more and more recent European travel experience than I do.
I think we share the same basic concept, though. That is, consider one of the European national airlines for the transoceanic leg. I suspect those airlines are most likely to have non-stop flights from the major US cities to a major city in their home country. And, I have found that the European national airlines frequently have very competitive fares for non-stop flights.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 13, 2011 17:03:21 GMT -5
Istanbul's awesome, but I think you'll have difficulty seeing anything in only 12 hours. We spent a week there at the beginning of our trip, and another 4 days at the end of it and still missed stuff.
What I would suggest that you really do see a travel agent about this. When I was planning our Turkey trip, I was trying to meet up with another party at a US hub and fly into Istanbul. After spending countless hours online, I finally realized that I needed help and went to AAA and had them book the airline tickets. I think it was $50/ticket, but the frustration that it alleviated was immeasurable.
I have flown Turkish Air. I highly recommend them, awesome service.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 13, 2011 17:07:22 GMT -5
grandma, still another thought. Years ago, it used to be much cheaper to fly within the British Empire than from the US to Europe. When I lived in northern MN, most people traveling to Europe would fly out of Thunder Bay en-route to Norway, rather than Minneapolis, because the air fares were a lot lower. Considering how close you are to Vancouver, might be worth a look.
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Post by debtheaven on Jul 13, 2011 20:22:44 GMT -5
I also have realized that we could use our AA miles for two free tickets if we move the date back into April instead of May.
GG, personally, that's what I'd do. I'd do as late in April as I could for the free tix. The weather is a crap shoot here. In May we were all dying and I had to revamp our automatic watering system, it was so incredibly hot. Now it's July and I've been in long pants and a fleece jacket (inside!) for three days running. Italy is further south so it will be warmer there than here anyway. If it was a choice between January and April or May, that's one thing. But a choice between April and May, with free tix ... that's another. I'd go for the free tix.
Another thought. When it's really hot out, frankly, Venice totally REEKS. Trust me, you do NOT want to go there in very high temperatures.
I loved Istanbul too but a three-legged flight is a LOT IMO. If you could do it on a two-legged flight, I'd go for it. I LOVED the caves (I'd have to look up the name it was a long time ago) and our tea and private tour at the hotel that Agatha Christie "disappeared" to when she went missing.
ETA: Obviously that would entail comparing "like with like" ... which means NOT comparing the first week in April with the last week in May. :-) But if I could get two free tix with air miles with a two-three week difference in my departure date, personally, I'd go for it. I'd use the money saved to visit another place in Italy: Sardinia, or Sicily, for example.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 7:26:15 GMT -5
If it makes you feel better, GG, airfare to Europe got crazy this year. This past May we flew to Madrid with DH in Business Class with 100K points, and me paying $3300 for a discounted Business Class fare. I looked at Scotland for 2012. No 100K-level Business Class seats available (they want 200K) and the cheapest Business Class fares were $4500. We started thinking about whether we wanted so much of the travel budget to go into airfare and decided instead to do a small-ship cruise in Alaska on Innersea Discoveries instead.
I hope Europe gets reasonable again. I know we're setting ourselves up for steep airfares by wanting Business Class, but that was too much of an increase.
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Post by lulubean on Jul 14, 2011 8:36:24 GMT -5
I jumped on my 650.00 tickets to England. It is a pain though, I just kept looking and playing with dates and eventually the price was right.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 14, 2011 10:16:08 GMT -5
Naggie, That's what I did when we went to China last fall. I figured out the route and airlines I wanted (direct flight via Hainan).... watched and one day, inexplicably the fare dropped about $400 pp. I jumped.
For now, I've decided to pump up the AA miles. I just opened a rewards card that will give me 30K miles after a $750 purchase. If I ask DH to do the same, that will add a total of 60K miles to the 130 we have. Then we would have the option of buying the remaining 40K miles needed for $975 - that would get us two coach tickets round trip. Or the option of using the miles for one bus class seat and purchasing the other (right now about $4K - which I can't bring myself to do)...
I'm sure the higher fares are the result of the overall rise in energy prices. There's enough time to watch and see. I've also pretty much decided to focus on Seattle to Rome with 1 stop. We can get a cheap flight from Rome to Venice (where we plan to start the trip).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 11:38:10 GMT -5
GG- do you have any money you can move into a Fidelity account? If you go through aa.com, you can get 25K miles for moving $50K into a Fidelity account, and 50K miles for moving 100K. You can't be a current or previous Fidelity customer, though. I've put in $50K and the 25K miles posted pretty quickly; I have 90 days from the account opening date to deposit the remaining $50K, which I'll be able to do in a couple of weeks.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 14, 2011 12:45:39 GMT -5
Athena, I **might***. Thanks for that info. I'm tucking it into my folder... I've gotten a bit creative and discovered that we can both fly into Paris (CDG) for 40K miles (for both of us) if we went two days earlier than we'd planned, and return for 60K miles (again for both of us). Taxes total $190. We could spend a couple of days in Paris.... no problem there. Easy jet has flights to Venice and from Rome to CDG - of course the prices vary and they aren't posting prices for next spring yet, but it looks like it would be less than $300 pp, so we COULD do the whole thing for about $750.... I ran that idea past DH and he liked it. We spent 3 days in Paris back in 1990. There is never enough time there, of course. For that kind of savings, I can deal with the discomfort of coach....
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Post by debtheaven on Jul 14, 2011 14:09:48 GMT -5
That sounds great GG! Just make sure the Easy Jet flights leave from CDG or even Orly, and not Beauvais (which is a huge PITA to get to).
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 14, 2011 14:47:07 GMT -5
Absolutely, debthaven.
Did that sort of thing once (after an 11 hr flight to Heathrow, took a bus (2 1/2 hr ride) to Gatwick to fly to Edinburgh. Never again....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 15:09:57 GMT -5
Hi GG,
I just flew from Portland OR to Frankfurt yesterday on Air Canada (they are partners with Luftansa and United and since I checked in at the AA desk I'm thinking they are partners as well). I flew in Coach and it was fine-flight attendents are nice unlike the US carriers (other than Southwest ;D) and food was o.k. My route in was via Vancouver, CA and out via Calgary.
Now that Southwest flies to the East Coast you might check out a flight into Philadelphia and Miles to Italy. Southwest doesn't post on Kayak.
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Post by debtheaven on Jul 14, 2011 18:12:38 GMT -5
GG, sending you a PM.
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Post by debtheaven on Jul 14, 2011 18:39:40 GMT -5
GG, other thought: there is apparently a relatively recent night train from Paris to Venice. I don't know much about it but our next-door neighbors took it two years ago for a long weekend and it went well.
Keep in mind that since the airports are always outside the city center, sometimes it's not that much longer in total travel time to take a train from one capital to another, since the train stations are IN the city center. Especially if it's an overnight train. There are a lot of options on the overnight trains: a seat, a bed in a shared compartment for four or six, or a private cabin for two or three.(From what I remember, and depending on the train, frankly it's been a while). Our neighbors travelled in a shared compartment, can't remember if it was for four or six. In the "olden days" those were just for travelling students, but that's definitely not the case anymore. Of course you'd have to sleep with your money / cards strapped onto you LOL.
Just so you know, the French train tickets go on line four months to the day ahead of time. If you buy them four months in advance, you may benefit from a limited number of cheap fares, or be flexible enough to book a train when it is much cheaper (ie certain days, and certain trains).
The French train line is "SNCF" and I'm pretty sure they have an English option for their website. I think it would be worth checking out. We like night travel because it saves on hotels LOL.
ETA: And obviously travelling on a Fri night or a Sun night would be more expensive, although those times have a few cheap tix too, but they sell out VERY quickly.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 14, 2011 18:45:01 GMT -5
Thanks Bonapp I'll check outvthat issibility. I do like SWA.... Prices and service....
At this point I'm trying to look at every possibility.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 14, 2011 18:53:37 GMT -5
Thanks dh That thought hand't even occurred to me and I really like train travel. I'll look into that possibility.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 14, 2011 19:11:50 GMT -5
The French train line is "SNCF" and I'm pretty sure they have an English option for their website. there is an English option, at least there was 3 years ago. I can't imagine it's been removed. my co-workers found it when we were supporting our site in Lyon - the easiest way to get there was to fly into CDG and train it down to Lyon.
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Post by debtheaven on Jul 14, 2011 19:31:28 GMT -5
Chiver thanks. Just checked, there is indeed an English option (and a German one) on the upper-right hand corner of the homepage.
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Post by lulubean on Jul 14, 2011 20:37:45 GMT -5
We are going to England and then get the trains to Germany.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 14, 2011 20:39:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2011 0:55:13 GMT -5
Oh, I would like to do the original trip from Paris to Istanbul! Too bad it's sold out for August 2012!
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 15, 2011 12:12:38 GMT -5
We are going to England and then get the trains to Germany. Naggie, Have you been to the "seat61" website? Lots of great info.... www.seat61.com
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