Òbama Faces Big Test Today

[privateinvestor]

Obama faces new obstacles in high-stakes debt talks

Failure to act may mean first-ever default on nation's financial obligations, which some warn could trigger global financial chaos

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Jump to text President Barack Obama will try to salvage high-stakes debt talks on Su...





www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43701378/ns/politics-white_house/



Alex Brandon / AP
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California: “I'm still optimistic that we can find a place where we can come together."
Not sure from these remarks by Pelosi if she is talking about Liberals coming together or both parties in congress??

[Deleted]

I have faith in President Obama. This issue has been coming to a head now since the stimulus package was passed. He will do whatever the polls say is the best choice to help him get re-elected.

[deziloooooo]

"Democratic Representative Chris Van Hollen blamed the abandonment of a bigger deficit-reduction goal on a "Republican fixation with protecting tax breaks for corporate special interests and the very wealthy."

Story: Presidential candidates warn about compromise in debt deal
Republicans want an agreement for at least $2 trillion in cuts as the price for a debt limit increase big enough to accommodate borrowing needs through the 2012 election. "

And the beat goes on.....un f belivable...a pox on all of them...

[reasonfreedom]

I think Republicans would be foolish to not allow cutting of tax breaks. Don't get me wrong I think tax breaks are good, but when we an issue as important as this they need to use some reason. Cutting tax breaks is raising taxes in a way, but if they were able to run a business before the tax breaks then they can now. They will just have to get rid of some of those unnecessary perks that they have. I worked with a fortune 500 company that gave their higher management and execs perks, I know most of them can definitely live nicely without them.

[Deleted]

Story: Presidential candidates warn about compromise in debt deal
Republicans want an agreement for at least $2 trillion in cuts as the price for a debt limit increase big enough to accommodate borrowing needs through the 2012 election. "

And the beat goes on.....un f belivable...a pox on all of them...

Pain now or pain later. Maybe the Republicans would rather have the pain now & some real concessions about spending now rather than a promise of something later. Not really defending the Republicans on this issue because I don't know what's going on (other than normal politics).

I would point out that President Obama passed that huge cluster **** of a spending package when he first became President. (I've compared that to using a shotgun to kill a fly) That has put us (the country) on the road to getting where we are at now. Then the Democratic controlled congress kept spending (knowing not only that they were borrowing 40 cents of every dollar that was spent BUT ALSO knowing what the spending cap was for almost 2 years). Being politicians one would assume that once those Republicans were elected (& Democrats lost total control) they would have known that the Republicans could hold them over the barrel that they are being held over. Yet here we are coming down to the last minute & no solution has been worked out.

Well their obvious aim to me (of course I'm kind of a Republican, until something more conservative comes along) would be that they are going to use this in the next election to try to get re-elected. So it comes down to me that 1. Democrats screwed up. 2. Democrats screwed up. 3. Democrats are trying to make Republicans look bad to get them re-elected at the cost of our country.

And it comes down to me that their plan must be at least partially working when I read this comment from deziloooooo: And the beat goes on.....un f belivable...a pox on all of them... because this is mostly a problem cause by the Democrats.

"Democratic Representative Chris Van Hollen blamed the abandonment of a bigger deficit-reduction goal on a "Republican fixation with protecting tax breaks for corporate special interests and the very wealthy."

As for this comment: Gee surprise. Republicans believe that the wealthy stimulate the economy with money (I do to). They of course don't like the idea of raping the money away from people because 1. it's not fair. 2. It will hurt the economy. If I were in charge of this mess I would make us default. Not a pleasant thing but to me it's just about as bad as letting us continue to borrow, borrow, borrow until we get even more in debt & have a much bigger meltdown.

[handyman2]

Truth is the government has maxed their credit card. They have shaken every penny out of the change jar and it is time to face reality. The government is no different than you and I when the bank says your credit card is maxed out and no more charges go live within your means.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 11:51:38 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

Truth is the government has maxed their credit card.

no, the truth is that they own a printing press. that is the only truth that matters, in the end.

[verrip1]

So true, dj. Point needs to be 'are they using the printing press too much these days?'. Commodity inflation has occurred esp. precious metals and ag, but not any wage inflation, yet. Without looking up the numbers, I can recall only one recently reported overall inflation number that was high. If we get a string of higher inflation numbers, there will be hell to pay.

With high inflation, our current debt would accelerate no matter how much spending is controlled or revenues are increased. IOW, the specific debt ceiling arguments between the Parties will become irrelevant. The resulting effect will be the reduction in the value of Treasuries (emphasis on the long bond) with disastrous and uncontrollable debt numbers. This isn't news; it's the 900 pound gorilla that's been in the corner for quite some time.

Even if the Fed decides to start a QT1 now, the expected 16 month reaction time would mean backsliding all the way to the election.

Once again, the focus of the Congress and Administration re our economy is completely misplaced. Might be some good news, though. We might never hear of Boehner, Reid and Obama again. Hopefully with a lot of related casualties.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 13:05:34 GMT -5 verrip1 said:

So true, dj. Point needs to be 'are they using the printing press too much these days?'. Commodity inflation has occurred esp. precious metals and ag, but not any wage inflation, yet. Without looking up the numbers, I can recall only one recently reported overall inflation number that was high. If we get a string of higher inflation numbers, there will be hell to pay.

With high inflation, our current debt would accelerate no matter how much spending is controlled or revenues are increased. IOW, the specific debt ceiling arguments between the Parties will become irrelevant. The resulting effect will be the reduction in the value of Treasuries (emphasis on the long bond) with disastrous and uncontrollable debt numbers. This isn't news; it's the 900 pound gorilla that's been in the corner for quite some time.

Even if the Fed decides to start a QT1 now, the expected 16 month reaction time would mean backsliding all the way to the election.

Once again, the focus of the Congress and Administration re our economy is completely misplaced. Might be some good news, though. We might never hear of Boehner, Reid and Obama again. Hopefully with a lot of related casualties.

i agree that we need to slow down the presses with the goal of stopping them. in fact, i stand with Ron Paul in thinking we need to shut down the Fed, which imperils our Republic, imo.

[verrip1]

Well, , you've named the only plank of the Libertarian Party Platform I disagree with.

{not to sidetrack this thread, but think about who else should run monetary policy if not the Fed. Maybe we'll have an appropriate place to discuss some day }

[privateinvestor]

Obama Faces Big Test Today



Ok let's all hold your fire until we all learn how this meeting went today or will Obama reschedule for another meeting and say that both parties are getting close to a deal or not..


I think we all know the President's future is riding on these meetings since they are the subject of just about every news healine lately..

I wish him well for the sake of our economy and for those who are getting very anxious about their unemployment compensation, social security payments, medicare care payments and etc and etc.......folks are indeed worried and I guess they should all be...

Businesses are also waiting to see what will happen about our debt reduction and what will happen with new taxes.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 13:39:21 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Obama Faces Big Test Today



Ok let's all hold your fire until we all learn how this meeting went today or will Obama reschedule for another meeting and say that both parties are getting close to a deal or not..


I think we all know the President's future is riding on these meetings .

i not only don't know this, i don't agree with it.

[privateinvestor]

not only don't know this, i don't agree with it.



Ok but when Obama is running for re election next year don't you think the meeting today and/or it's outcome will have an effect on his re election chances?? If not? Then why not??

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 14:01:48 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

not only don't know this, i don't agree with it.



Ok but when Obama is running for re election next year don't you think the meeting today and/or it's outcome will have an effect on his re election chances?? If not? Then why not??

i think the effect could be positive or negative- but i don't think it will determine whether he gets elected or not. i have already stated that many times on the board, tho- so i guess i could spare you the repetition.

i think he is going to get elected on the health of the economy. if the economy adds another 2M jobs by next november, he is going to be tough to beat. if it does not, he is going to have a rough time. and i don't really think it matters who his opponent is....within limits of course.....

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 13:39:21 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Obama Faces Big Test Today



Ok let's all hold your fire until we all learn how this meeting went today or will Obama reschedule for another meeting and say that both parties are getting close to a deal or not..


I think we all know the President's future is riding on these meetings since they are the subject of just about every news healine lately..

I wish him well for the sake of our economy and for those who are getting very anxious about their unemployment compensation, social security payments, medicare care payments and etc and etc.......folks are indeed worried and I guess they should all be...

Businesses are also waiting to see what will happen about our debt reduction and what will happen with new taxes.

businesses are very foolish to wait for a determination of tax policy. it is best to just keep making money, and let the accountants sort it out.

unless, of course, you are one of those businesses that is blessed with such a commodotized product that you can pack up and move to Nicaragua. but if you are, you are going to have to compete with China, so that is also a mixed blessing.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 10, 2011 14:07:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 10, 2011 14:01:48 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

not only don't know this, i don't agree with it.



Ok but when Obama is running for re election next year don't you think the meeting today and/or it's outcome will have an effect on his re election chances?? If not? Then why not??

i think the effect could be positive or negative- but i don't think it will determine whether he gets elected or not. i have already stated that many times on the board, tho- so i guess i could spare you the repetition.

i think he is going to get elected on the health of the economy. if the economy adds another 2M jobs by next november, he is going to be tough to beat. if it does not, he is going to have a rough time. and i don't really think it matters who his opponent is....within limits of course.....

OK but you have to consider unemployment, jobs created, and the debt reduction proposals that will impact the economy when Obama is running for re election...

You can think optimistically or realistically ahead to next year about the private sector re hiring and the uncertaintly about the government being able to pay it's bills...

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 14:15:31 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Jul 10, 2011 14:07:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think the effect could be positive or negative- but i don't think it will determine whether he gets elected or not. i have already stated that many times on the board, tho- so i guess i could spare you the repetition.

i think he is going to get elected on the health of the economy. if the economy adds another 2M jobs by next november, he is going to be tough to beat. if it does not, he is going to have a rough time. and i don't really think it matters who his opponent is....within limits of course.....

OK but you have to consider unemployment, jobs created, and the debt reduction proposals that will impact the economy when Obama is running for re election...

debt reduction won't matter to 70%+ of the public if Unemployment falls to below 8% by next November. a certain crowd would really care about this issue no matter how low unemployment goes. i know, because i was part of that crowd when unemployment stood at 5% under Bush.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 14:15:31 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Jul 10, 2011 14:07:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think the effect could be positive or negative- but i don't think it will determine whether he gets elected or not. i have already stated that many times on the board, tho- so i guess i could spare you the repetition.

i think he is going to get elected on the health of the economy. if the economy adds another 2M jobs by next november, he is going to be tough to beat. if it does not, he is going to have a rough time. and i don't really think it matters who his opponent is....within limits of course.....

You can think optimistically or realistically ahead to next year about the private sector re hiring and the uncertaintly about the government being able to pay it's bills...

well, i am not really thinking about it right now.

right now, i am thinking about how to sell more stuff to the potato industry. people are going to be eating more potatoes, imo.

PS- i am adding a new employee on Monday.

[deziloooooo]

" If I were in charge of this mess I would make us default. Not a pleasant thing but to me it's just about as bad as letting us continue to borrow, borrow, borrow until we get even more in debt & have a much bigger meltdown.


No disrespect meant at all, but because of the statement I am glad your not in that position, if we do default and all of the repercussions that will follow, I believe most of the predictions will come about..possible not all, but the way the economy and jobs are going and the way the world is right now..that is not what is needed here..

As far as the reelection, while I am sure the POTUS would love another term to finish much of what he feels is the way to go, agree, disagree, what ever, I believe as all POTUS he is thinking longer term, and knows the last thing the country needs is to default because of the ceiling being not raised..unlike myself and you , he has a greater responsibility and while they know better, I feel many of the elected in Washington only play lip service to the dire predictions of those who cry out against that, default , happening, and really don't have a clue, possible thinking they would like to see it happen just to see the out come of that, a bit like a ride on a roller coaster..the thrill of with the fear..but the interest of experiencing it too.

IMHO of course.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 10, 2011 14:20:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 10, 2011 14:15:31 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

You can think optimistically or realistically ahead to next year about the private sector re hiring and the uncertaintly about the government being able to pay it's bills...

well, i am not really thinking about it right now.

right now, i am thinking about how to sell more stuff to the potato industry. people are going to be eating more potatoes, imo.

PS- i am adding a new employee on Monday.

Let's see what happens in the next few weeks and then we can revisit...it is tough to determine who is right about going into default and not balancing the budget. I don't know how much of the spin or hype is real or memorex..

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 14:43:53 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Jul 10, 2011 14:20:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

well, i am not really thinking about it right now.

right now, i am thinking about how to sell more stuff to the potato industry. people are going to be eating more potatoes, imo.

PS- i am adding a new employee on Monday.

Let's see what happens in the next few weeks and then we can revisit...it is tough to determine who is right about going into default and not balancing the budget. I don't know how much of the spin or hype is real or memorex..

that is almost precisely where i sit, PI. i don't think anyone can predict who will gain from this, and if both lose, who will lose the least.

but i will add this: when i was preaching the gospel of deficit reduction during the last economic expansion, nobody would listen to me. we had a Republican president, a Republican house, and a Republican senate.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...we're gonna have pain... we have to choose between the bowl-full now or the bucket-full later... which do we want?

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 20:48:21 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...we're gonna have pain... we have to choose between the bowl-full now or the bucket-full later... which do we want?

i have two answers for that.

the self centered generation that has the Greed Is Good lapel pins would sell out their mommas for a nickle. so they are going for the "now" bucket.

the "you can't take it with you" generation- the responsible capitalists that built this country only to watch their lives work expatriated to China are going to stick around for the "later" bucket. but they are also going to assume responsibility for paying for this folly. just you watch.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...maybe... but in your scenario, I'd say that the "you can't take it with you" generation also understands the "manifest destiny" scenario and will go graze in greener pastures...

...so, we watch...

[djAdvocate]

Jul 10, 2011 21:07:37 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...maybe... but in your scenario, I'd say that the "you can't take it with you" generation also understands the "manifest destiny" scenario and will go graze in greener pastures...

...so, we watch...

i would argue that that generation operated under "home rule" investing. the new generation doesn't. it is all about me me me me me.

i would also argue that the latter group are actually "better" capitalists, as the term is generally understood. that is not a selling point for capitalism, however.

[privateinvestor]

Washington (CNN) -- A day after a 75-minute session, talks will resume Monday to try to reach a deficit-reduction deal and pave the way for a hike in the nation's $14.3 trillion debt ceiling, a White House spokesman said Sunday.

White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer said on his Twitter account on Sunday night that congressional leaders will return to the White House for further negotiations on Monday. At 11 a.m. that same morning, President Barack Obama will hold a press conference in the White House briefing room, according to his official schedule.

These announcements are the first formal fall-out of Sunday's night talks on the subject, led by the president and involving top politicians from the House and Senate.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said afterward that Democrats are "still hopeful for a large bipartisan agreement," one that will do "no harm to the middle class or to economic growth (and) protect Medicare and Social Security beneficiaries."

Don Stewart, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, meanwhile said that he found it "baffling that the president and his party continue to insist on massive tax hikes in the middle of a jobs crisis."

Those comments echoed many others made by key figures in both parties, as they posture to try get a deal that cuts into the nation's debt.

Republicans initiated the fight when they demanded drastically reduced spending (but no tax hikes) before they agreed to raise the nation's debt ceiling. Obama responded by saying he backs an ambitious plan to reach $4 trillion, mostly through cuts but also with revenue increases


edition.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/10/debt.talks/index.html