thyme4change
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 12:50:11 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Jul 5, 2011 12:50:11 GMT -5
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cme1201
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 12:57:16 GMT -5
Post by cme1201 on Jul 5, 2011 12:57:16 GMT -5
It is not a "government" issue (as I take it to mean Federal Government), it is as it always has been a states rights issue.
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Deleted
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 12:58:10 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 12:58:10 GMT -5
I look at it the same way I do seatbelt laws. A helmet or a seatbelt generally only protect the operator of said vehicle therefore should not be legislated or fined. I've worn my seatbelt all my life because I know it's safer....not because it was a punishable offense to not wear it. Same thing with my motorcycle helmet.
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thyme4change
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Jul 5, 2011 13:01:00 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Jul 5, 2011 13:01:00 GMT -5
Should the state have the right to force us to wear a helmet?
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cme1201
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Jul 5, 2011 13:01:43 GMT -5
Post by cme1201 on Jul 5, 2011 13:01:43 GMT -5
Yes.
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thyme4change
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Jul 5, 2011 13:09:02 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Jul 5, 2011 13:09:02 GMT -5
Why? What rights do they have over my body? Does a helmet or lack-thereof protect/harm anyone but me?
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Deleted
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 13:12:23 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:12:23 GMT -5
Does a helmet or lack-thereof protect/harm anyone but me? 99.9% of the time....No. 0.01% of the time you may fly into someone else and they may be hurt or killed. So in essence, we are regulating this BS for 0.01% probability of harming someone other than yourself.
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cme1201
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Jul 5, 2011 13:14:26 GMT -5
Post by cme1201 on Jul 5, 2011 13:14:26 GMT -5
None over your body, they have plenty of rights in the issuing of a state drivers license, when you decide that you want to legally drive (which is a privilege and not a right0 you agree to follow the rules of the particular state where your license is from. If you travel to another state you must still follow that states laws in regards to what is and is not allowed on there roadway.
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thyme4change
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Jul 5, 2011 13:15:23 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Jul 5, 2011 13:15:23 GMT -5
Does emotional harm count? I know several people who have been involved in a fatal accident (where the other party dies) and even if the accident was not their fault, they get all messed up in the head for having been driving a vehicle that killed someone. So, a helmet might prevent someone else from going all looney.
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Deleted
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 13:16:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:16:07 GMT -5
I say no... because in most states (should be all if it isn't already) illegal to drive without insurance. If I have an accident and I'm not wearing a seatbelt/helmet, I am the one who will be hurt. My insurance then pays for it, and my rates go up as a result. Seems like a fare tradeoff to me. I agree with this. Although I will say last time I looked (it's been a couple of years so it may have changed) there actually are a couple of Bass Ackwards states that don't require auto insurance.
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Deleted
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 13:18:16 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:18:16 GMT -5
None over your body, they have plenty of rights in the issuing of a state drivers license, when you decide that you want to legally drive (which is a privilege and not a right0 you agree to follow the rules of the particular state where your license is from. If you travel to another state you must still follow that states laws in regards to what is and is not allowed on there roadway. Isn't that a contradictory statement? They have NO control over MY body but they have control of MY body by legislating helmet and seatbelt laws.
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floridayankee
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Jul 5, 2011 13:18:21 GMT -5
Post by floridayankee on Jul 5, 2011 13:18:21 GMT -5
This guy was protesting helmet laws, and then dies from an accident that he would have survived had he been wearing a helmet.
Should the government force motorcycle riders to wear a helmet? Are we just protecting them from themselves? Or are we saving tax money from not having to scrape them off the road? I don't think it should be mandated at the fed or state level. I also don't think that a hospital should be required to provide care for someone that can't afford to pay for their own care if they opt out. FL has a weak helmet law. No helmet is required if you're over 21 and carry at least $10,000.00 medical payment insurance or some type of healthcare coverage that does not exclude motorcycles. I always wear one for the simple fact that I'm smart enough to realize that my head is just a bit softer than asphalt. DW says that "bit softer" part is debatable though.
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Deleted
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Jul 5, 2011 13:19:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:19:37 GMT -5
Does emotional harm count? I know several people who have been involved in a fatal accident (where the other party dies) and even if the accident was not their fault, they get all messed up in the head for having been driving a vehicle that killed someone. So, a helmet might prevent someone else from going all looney. "My boss yelled at me so now I'm emotionally harmed!" That's the slippery slope you're going down if that's how these things were legislated.
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Deleted
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 13:22:27 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:22:27 GMT -5
This guy was protesting helmet laws, and then dies from an accident that he would have survived had he been wearing a helmet.
Should the government force motorcycle riders to wear a helmet? Are we just protecting them from themselves? Or are we saving tax money from not having to scrape them off the road? I don't think it should be mandated at the fed or state level. I also don't think that a hospital should be required to provide care for someone that can't afford to pay for their own care if they opt out. FL has a weak helmet law. No helmet is required if you're over 21 and carry at least $10,000.00 medical payment insurance or some type of healthcare coverage that does not exclude motorcycles. I always wear one for the simple fact that I'm smart enough to realize that my head is just a bit softer than asphalt. DW says that "bit softer" part is debatable though. I certainly agree with this. I've NEVER not worn my helmet while riding my bike....and that includes moving it to a different spot in a parking lot less than 20 feet away. Head = soft. Concrete/Asphalt = hard.
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cme1201
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Jul 5, 2011 13:24:20 GMT -5
Post by cme1201 on Jul 5, 2011 13:24:20 GMT -5
None over your body, they have plenty of rights in the issuing of a state drivers license, when you decide that you want to legally drive (which is a privilege and not a right0 you agree to follow the rules of the particular state where your license is from. If you travel to another state you must still follow that states laws in regards to what is and is not allowed on there roadway. Isn't that a contradictory statement? They have NO control over MY body but they have control of MY body by legislating helmet and seatbelt laws. financialtexan, I see no contradiction, the law is not over your body it is over a right to ride on a public owned street. I am against mandatory seatbelt and helmet laws, yet I see why a state would require them, we originally started only on helmet laws which I was asked does a state have the right, which the answer is Yes, the state has the right to restrict usage of it's roads to people who choose to follow the states laws.
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fairlycrazy23
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Jul 5, 2011 13:27:10 GMT -5
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 5, 2011 13:27:10 GMT -5
None over your body, they have plenty of rights in the issuing of a state drivers license, when you decide that you want to legally drive (which is a privilege and not a right0 you agree to follow the rules of the particular state where your license is from. If you travel to another state you must still follow that states laws in regards to what is and is not allowed on there roadway. Isn't that a contradictory statement? They have NO control over MY body but they have control of MY body by legislating helmet and seatbelt laws. Not if you keep your body off of public roads. And I agree that if you have insurance and sign a waiver you shouldn't have to wear a helmet, but who would care for your children if you should die. It seems like the 'best and simplest solution' is to just require helmets when you ride on public streets.
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Deleted
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Jul 5, 2011 13:27:31 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:27:31 GMT -5
Isn't that a contradictory statement? They have NO control over MY body but they have control of MY body by legislating helmet and seatbelt laws. financialtexan, I see no contradiction, the law is not over your body it is over a right to ride on a public owned street. I am against mandatory seatbelt and helmet laws, yet I see why a state would require them, we originally started only on helmet laws which I was asked does a state have the right, which the answer is Yes, the state has the right to restrict usage of it's roads to people who choose to follow the states laws. And yet I...as a TAXPAYER pay for those roads that I can't use unless I do what the people I'm paying tell me to do. See the problem with that? I certainly do.
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Deleted
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Irony
Jul 5, 2011 13:28:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:28:04 GMT -5
Isn't that a contradictory statement? They have NO control over MY body but they have control of MY body by legislating helmet and seatbelt laws. Not if you keep your body off of public roads. Again....public roads that I pay for with MY tax dollars.
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fairlycrazy23
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Jul 5, 2011 13:30:58 GMT -5
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 5, 2011 13:30:58 GMT -5
Not if you keep your body off of public roads. Again....public roads that I pay for with MY tax dollars. You pay for a lot of things with your taxes, that doesn't mean you get to make the rules. Vote in like minded individuals and then you can get laws that you want.
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Deleted
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Jul 5, 2011 13:36:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:36:34 GMT -5
Again....public roads that I pay for with MY tax dollars. You pay for a lot of things with your taxes, that doesn't mean you get to make the rules. Vote in like minded individuals and then you can get laws that you want. Yeah....because these laws are obviously more about safety issues than they are about revenue streams. Uh huh....anyone who believes that is a fool. Edit: Around here the penalty for "Failure to use turn signal" is around $125. "No seatbelt" penalty is around $200. Which of these laws has the potential to harm the public more?
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floridayankee
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Jul 5, 2011 13:50:23 GMT -5
Post by floridayankee on Jul 5, 2011 13:50:23 GMT -5
.....but who would care for your children if you should die. It seems like the 'best and simplest solution' is to just require helmets when you ride on public streets. What if a rider does not have children? Or, who would care for my children if I died riding on privately owned land? Who would care for my children if I'm mowing my lawn and a car hops the curb and runs me over? Who would take care of my children if a drunk driver crashes into my bedroom wall and kills me in my sleep? Should we then not require people wear a helmet all the time? Face it, living can will kill you. There are a whole bunch of deadly activities out there and we can't legislate the threat out of every one of them. I know that the states have a right to legislate a helmet law, but I see no need to control people's lives more than absolutely necessary. An individual's choice to wear a helmet or not has absolutely no impact on the individuals rights of another and government should stay out of it.
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billisonboard
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Jul 5, 2011 14:26:57 GMT -5
Post by billisonboard on Jul 5, 2011 14:26:57 GMT -5
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floridayankee
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Jul 5, 2011 14:43:06 GMT -5
Post by floridayankee on Jul 5, 2011 14:43:06 GMT -5
I know Bills...the $10k requirement is quite inadequate, I agree. Who knows which orifice they pulled that number out of. IMHO, that severe brain injury is one I'd just rather have the plug pulled on. But, now that we discussed costs, let's go one step further and look at the leading causes at www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/causes.html * Falls (35.2%); * Motor vehicle – traffic (17.3%); * Struck by/against events (16.5%); and * Assaults (10%).1 Now, considering the extremely high costs and leading causes of traumatic brain injury, should states legislate that their citizens wear helmets at all time? Apparently, being upright is more dangerous than motorcycle riding.
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Bluerobin
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Jul 5, 2011 14:44:31 GMT -5
Post by Bluerobin on Jul 5, 2011 14:44:31 GMT -5
The helmet may have kept him alive, but in what condition? I prefer the choice of not having to wear one. If I have an accident, I want to be dead, not a vegetable.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Jul 5, 2011 15:20:06 GMT -5
Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 5, 2011 15:20:06 GMT -5
I always use my seatbelt or helmet, but I don't like laws telling me I have to. I would prefer legislation that allows insurance to reject claims made by/for a person not using them who gets injured in an accident.
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billisonboard
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Jul 5, 2011 15:29:33 GMT -5
Post by billisonboard on Jul 5, 2011 15:29:33 GMT -5
I know Bills...the $10k requirement is quite inadequate, I agree. Who knows which orifice they pulled that number out of. IMHO, that severe brain injury is one I'd just rather have the plug pulled on. But, now that we discussed costs, let's go one step further and look at the leading causes at www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/causes.html * Falls (35.2%); * Motor vehicle – traffic (17.3%); * Struck by/against events (16.5%); and * Assaults (10%).1 Now, considering the extremely high costs and leading causes of traumatic brain injury, should states legislate that their citizens wear helmets at all time? Apparently, being upright is more dangerous than motorcycle riding.Brings to mind "Lies, damned lies, and statistics." I spent a whole lot more time upright this weekend than on my motorcycle. An honest assessment would be to look at the time spent doing activities compared to the number of tramatic brain injuries from doing the activity. The other part is to look at what steps are being taken to decrease the chances for an injury. Helmets might be one thing that makes sense in some situations. Railings, hand-holds, manufacturing requirements for more secure footings on ladders are other things that make sense in other situations. I have ridden a few times without a helmet when I have been in a state that allowed it. It is a foolish pleasure.
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billisonboard
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Jul 5, 2011 15:35:02 GMT -5
Post by billisonboard on Jul 5, 2011 15:35:02 GMT -5
... I would prefer legislation that allows insurance to reject claims made by/for a person not using them who gets injured in an accident.And then what? Clearly if the individual has financial resourse, they pay. But when they don't, who pays? Or does the first on the scene make the call of no services if no helmet (unless they find an American Express Gold Card in the wallet)?
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thyme4change
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Jul 5, 2011 15:45:10 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Jul 5, 2011 15:45:10 GMT -5
Yes, but how much time is spent in each activity. I would have to spend 29 hours in traffic per week to make up 17% of my time. I doubt many people really spend that much time in a car. So, proportionally, motor vehicles are still more dangerous than other activities.
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henryclay
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Jul 5, 2011 15:49:42 GMT -5
Post by henryclay on Jul 5, 2011 15:49:42 GMT -5
Okay, so there is a diference of opinion of motorcycle helmet laws. Now let's see what are the opinions on kids riding bicycles without helmets? There are a "few" places that say "certain" bicycle riders should wear a helmet also. Seems to make sense to me that if the pros in the "Tour de France" and on racie tracks wear helmets, kids should too. And I ask, "When was the last time anyione saw a professional motocyclist that didn't have a helmet on his topknot? There must be a reason it's there. What I'm waiting to see are laws that require protectice gear for knees , elbows, hips and shoulders. www.helmets.org/mandator.htmI'm through trolling now.
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thyme4change
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Jul 5, 2011 15:52:43 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Jul 5, 2011 15:52:43 GMT -5
henry - the question isn't if you "should" wear a helmet - the question is if the government (state level) should FORCE you to wear a helmet. Do we need laws to protect us from ourselves? Especially if the result hurts the individual far more than general society.
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