A Congressman that "Get's it"

[reasonfreedom]

Jul 6, 2011 12:00:32 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I'm a bit surprised, but I find myself agreeing with Oped.

The key to getting out of this mass is job creation, and a tax friendly enviornment isn't enough to do that alone. If you're running a business, and your taxes drop, that doesn't mean you're going to run out and hire someone. You're going to simply pocket the money and increase your profits. You only hire people for your business if there's a need to hire people, i.e. you want to expand your business so you can make more money. In order to expand your business there needs to be sufficient demand for your goods or services. So what's the key to increasing demand for goods and services? Essentially, what will get people and businesses ready to spend money? I don't have the answer to that, the best answer I can think of is innovation or providing a service better or cheaper.

But having low taxes or few regulations doesn't create demand for jobs, it simply removes barriers, but isn't enough to create jobs.

Wouldn't low taxes give more money for the people in order to buy more goods, wait for it....... Oh snap, buying more goods=demand. Who would of thunk it.

[reasonfreedom]

Jul 5, 2011 17:36:17 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Did anyone happen the catch the rerun of the bicentennial move "1776" yesterday. There are 2 bits of ranting by the John Adams character. In one he says t0 the effect (regarding Congress) , My god they have sat here a whole year! A whole year and done nothing! In the second he is ranting toward the heavens saying to the effect.. a plague, famine, locusts, floods, I could understand, but why did you send us Congress?

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

[Phoenix84]

"Who knows, maybe if they paid lower taxes our products just might be more competitive in world markets. Now of course we are talking about well run companies here."

You bring up a good point Oldtex (one I forgot). This is a reason why I don't quite understand the argument that rich will take their ball and go home. If I run a business and taxes go up am I going to eat the cost? No. Is my immediate reaction to look into relocating to singapore, China, or whatever? no. What I will do is pass that additional cost onto my customers as part of the cost of doing business.

[Phoenix84]

"Wouldn't low taxes give more money for the people in order to buy more goods, wait for it....... Oh snap, buying more goods=demand. Who would of thunk it."

But that isn't the case. With the $400 or whatever that people got back from their taxes a few years back, they just spent it on bills, paid off debt, or just put it in the bank.

I just got a $500 cash reward from work and my first reaction is to save it instead of rushing out and buying a Ipad or whatever.

[Deleted]

Oped is still a girl tex. ... and i think it has/is worked/ing to some extent... but not nearly as efficiently as it could/should have.

Sorry Ma-am (tipping hat)...It's the age I'm at. I don't see so well so girls look a lot like guys at a distance. I don't smell so well so everything smells about the same. I used to try to "feel" to see which was which & that didn't work out to well. Now in order to tell them apart I get really really close & if it's a girl all the blood rushes to my.....well lets just say it leaves my head & I fall down a lot. Again, sorry Ma-am. ;D

[Deleted]

If I run a business and taxes go up am I going to eat the cost? No. Is my immediate reaction to look into relocating to singapore, China, or whatever? no.

If your making a lot of money & tired of the high cost of labor, health care plans, retirement plans, & they raise taxes then you just might think about moving. I would.

Oh & lets not forget that the government keeps changing the rules on you.

[reasonfreedom]

Jul 6, 2011 16:41:14 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

"Wouldn't low taxes give more money for the people in order to buy more goods, wait for it....... Oh snap, buying more goods=demand. Who would of thunk it."

But that isn't the case. With the $400 or whatever that people got back from their taxes a few years back, they just spent it on bills, paid off debt, or just put it in the bank.

I just got a $500 cash reward from work and my first reaction is to save it instead of rushing out and buying a Ipad or whatever.

You are of the lower percentage to actually save. Since the lower class is the majority of the people and most of my speculations with that refund were with the lower class. A lot of my friends and other acquaintances spent the money at the bars or out to eat or buying a new t.v. ect ect. The majority of our population are consumers and have been entwined in this type of living style. People here don't save out of habit they spend.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 5, 2011 12:24:16 GMT -5 dancinmama said:

Jul 5, 2011 11:46:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i own three businesses. i would never consider moving them. that is because they are small businesses, and i happen to love my country and employees. i am not some aloof manager who thinks of personnel as accounting items.

i have no sympathy for sociopathic managers that are driven solely by profit. i understand that they are out there, and that they might leave. but think about it: they are not looking out for anyone other than them anyway, so how helpful are they, really? i would almost rather have "governmental indifference" than idiots like that actively scheming against me.

good riddance, i say. i think that most American businessmen are better than "them".

Do you really expect people to believe that you did not start your business in the hopes of making a profit that would EARN you a living?

i only started two of them. and that is an overly-simplistic view of running a business. there are a lot of factors. one of them is that you have to be able to meet the costs. another is that you have to do so in this regulatory environment. a third is that you need a competitive niche. without all of those things, the prospect of profit is a useless one. just ask paul.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 5, 2011 12:24:16 GMT -5 dancinmama said:

Jul 5, 2011 11:46:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i own three businesses. i would never consider moving them. that is because they are small businesses, and i happen to love my country and employees. i am not some aloof manager who thinks of personnel as accounting items.

i have no sympathy for sociopathic managers that are driven solely by profit. i understand that they are out there, and that they might leave. but think about it: they are not looking out for anyone other than them anyway, so how helpful are they, really? i would almost rather have "governmental indifference" than idiots like that actively scheming against me.

good riddance, i say. i think that most American businessmen are better than "them".

Yes, there is no doubt about the fact that there are all kinds of people in this world in all different professions - predatory managers, slum lords, etc. There will ALWAYS be people who pray on those on the lower rungs of the ladder no matter what type of economic system or government that you have. That will NEVER stop.

But my hope is that there will be more people like you who are given the incentive to put their money to work. But let's face it; the MAJORITY if not ALL businesses are started because someone has an idea, a product, or a service that they hope will make THEM money. Employees are not hired until the owner knows they can afford them. The hope is that they will be loyal to each other and it will be a win/win.

there are certain businesses that will ONLY work in a local environment. auto and appliance repair, for example, can't be done in China economically, due to transportation and time concerns. fast food is another. it makes no sense to have fast food made for you in Beijing. unless, of course, you live in Beijing.

so, again, this type of view, which i will admit has become commonplace, overlooks the reality of MOST businesses in the US: they are small, local concerns, that derive NO benefit from being exported.

it is only a certain type of business that is franchisable in the manner which you speak. and it takes a certain breed of capitalist to view human capital as ONLY a "cost", which obviously some do.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 5, 2011 12:24:16 GMT -5 dancinmama said:

Jul 5, 2011 11:46:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i own three businesses. i would never consider moving them. that is because they are small businesses, and i happen to love my country and employees. i am not some aloof manager who thinks of personnel as accounting items.

i have no sympathy for sociopathic managers that are driven solely by profit. i understand that they are out there, and that they might leave. but think about it: they are not looking out for anyone other than them anyway, so how helpful are they, really? i would almost rather have "governmental indifference" than idiots like that actively scheming against me.

good riddance, i say. i think that most American businessmen are better than "them".

So if push comes to shove and your one/all of your businesses can no longer support all the people that you employ and you've tried every other means of cutting back, but you are to the point where the existence of the business and/or taking care of your own family is at stake, are you telling me that you will not/have not laid people off? I don't know what types of businesses that you have, but perhaps this very thing is weighing on you now?

two of my businesses are growing and expanding, and one is shrinking. and of course we would lay people off. but there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of offshoring any of them- even to Mexico. the businesses are simply not large enough to make that work. and yes, i have not only looked at it, but had a consultant look at it.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 5, 2011 12:13:05 GMT -5 oped said:

The real problem with the stimulus, is that of the 666 billion we were discussing in the other thread... 292.7 billion went to tax reduction. 126.1 billion went to provide state fiscal relief, and only 161.9 billion went to public investment outlays...

Honestly... the reason the stimulus didn't work... is because TAX BREAKS DON'T WORK....

bingo. tax breaks only work during an EXPANDING economy, when the money will be efficiently employed to expand business and hire. and, coincidentally, tax breaks will not create deficits during that time, because the offsets will come from the increased revenue in an expanding economy.

what we have done in the past thirty years: cutting revenues from the engine which will spend into a downturn (government) and giving it to the engine which will not (business and wealthy individuals) it DUMB economics. it doesn't even pass common sense.