deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 1, 2011 20:18:52 GMT -5
So you're saying that telephone poles, the other 529 channels, and all non-church buildings actively support and promote atheism? I don't have an answer you may like, but you may very well have nailed it. Since they're not showing any devotion to God OR country, they may very well all be atheists. What do you think? As an aside, let me tell you a true story. We once had a mayor here who had been a school teacher. It was a "she" and it stood about as wide as it stood tall, and some people even disputed it was that tall. They put up a memorial in front of City Hall that has a bronze soldier, (maybe it's a Marine), in a dead run, rifle in hand, cartridge belt around his waist, crossing brokem ground. In front of it is a huge marble tablet on pedistals with all the names of our war dead from back when the town was founded in 1883. They placed it in the middle of the walkway that goes from the street to the City Hall entry. It objected to the placement because "people would have to walk around it to get into City Hall", but it was overridden by the committee and the City Council. It did not attend the dedication. Then there was a letter to the editor published later about how the flag was so rarely seen in front of City Hall. The pole was right next to the memorial. It responded by making the remark that "We are all Americans here. There's no need to fly the flag every day just to prove it." As I said above, we "once" had a mayor. We don't have that mayor any more. There are strange people always around us.. My former Sister in Law went to a college in Virginia..she told me the story that when President Kennedy was assasinated, and the country went into morning, who can ever , ever forget those damn muffled drums and the dirge played by the marching bands over that long bridge leading to arlington and teh horse trying to break away..the school kept the flag at full staff and when students objected, this head of this Virginia College replies .."People die every day" no big deal I guess in his mind , this head of a University of higher learning.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 1, 2011 21:20:36 GMT -5
"If those were conservative banners, the planes and pilots would be in danger...thank God they aren't. Liberals, and especially liberal atheists, tend to get violent..."
This simply isn't true. I know it makes you feel all kinds of superior to say it, but it just isn't so. Neither is your little photo gallery of the ghoulish.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 1, 2011 22:32:30 GMT -5
Oh no, of course not- we just called the Soviets "godless atheists" because that was the best darn insult we could think up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2011 22:34:58 GMT -5
I could call someone a pompous windbag... but just because i call him that, doesn't mean that was the position he was actively trying to promote...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 1, 2011 22:40:31 GMT -5
Oh no, of course not- we just called the Soviets "godless atheists" because that was the best darn insult we could think up. And? So? Relevance? So you won't wonder why then when folks equate Christians = doctor killers and abortion clinic bombers? Lets be clear about something. I don't hate Christians. I don't even dislike them. All Atheists are not violent. Not even close. All Christians are not violent either. The lot of you continue to make these ridiculous sweeping generalizations, and it just continues to make all of you look..well...ridiculous.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 1, 2011 22:45:23 GMT -5
Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann: "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable"
Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both."
Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools.
Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said, 'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'"
Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch."
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 1, 2011 23:01:41 GMT -5
So now Hitler speaks for all Atheists? I still don't really get where you are going with all of this. Pretty silly if you ask me.
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Post by lakhota on Jul 1, 2011 23:26:49 GMT -5
Adolf Hitler - Christian, Atheist, or Neither? In my wanderings through the Web, I have sometimes come across statements from Christians saying that Adolf Hitler was an atheist, and more often, statements from atheists saying that Hitler was a devout Christian. He seems to be a guy that nobody wants on their team, which I guess is fair enough, given the part that he played in humanity's bloodiest endeavour. However since some of the "Hitler was a Christian" comments have been occasionally directed at me, I thought it would be wise to investigate the matter for myself and see just what I could come up with. My conclusion is that Hitler, although he was brought up and confirmed as a Catholic, had abandoned Christianity by the time he was in control of Germany. Importantly though, he was not an atheist either. Read on to find out more… homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 2, 2011 0:22:23 GMT -5
I have just noticed that bills must be bored. Either that or he's trolling for a fight. Why else would he take one line from a post I made, and with no reference whatsoever, put this under it: , , , it is necessary to categorize one's enemy as sub-human. . . Although the post he took the line from did reference someone with a totally unacceptable philosophy to that of mine, it had no reference to my having an enemy. If I do have an enemy, or any enemies, (1), I hope none are Americans, (2), I am blissfully unaware of it and, (3), I hope to keep it that way. Having said that, I can understand how an Alinskyite might call someone an enemy. I understand it because I have never known an Alinskyite that ever had a "real" enemy and simply because of the casually off-handed and regular use they make of the word, they can't possibly know the meaning of it. Thank God I am not an Alinskyite. I have more respect for anyone who would be my enemy than those who toss the word around so glibly.
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Jul 2, 2011 8:37:44 GMT -5
This is why so many people dislike atheists: their utter arrogance and desire to rain on everyone else's parade (almost literally in this case).
No one really cares about their beliefs but they sure do care about YOURS to the point of getting in your face as noted above or thinking that a street sign like "Seven in Heaven" violates the Constitution,
The stupid morons don't even understand what the Establishment clause in the First Amendment is nor that the phrase "seperation of church and state" is not in the Constitution, nor that most of our Founders were religious men who were guided by their Christian principles even as they respected other's right to not be religious.
Other stupid ideas of theirs: "keep religion private" like it's some evil or embarrassing thing. What does that mean? I can't wear a cross or carry a Bible? Must all Churches be hidden so as not to offend (a mega victory mosque on the sites of a Muslim attack is ok though)? Are the words "God" and "Jesus" to be struck from the public venacular? Are the religious banned from voting lest those religious twisted minds somehow make us follow some evil and warped ideas like charity or laws against murder and theft?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2011 8:43:26 GMT -5
Most of the Founders were not Christian, they were Deist.
So... Its OK for a Christian to be public in their beliefs... but not ok for the atheist to to be public about theirs? You argue against 'keeping religion private'... and then say atheists shouldn't 'get in your face' ? ...
I'm agnostic myself... but feel free to misuse atheist/agnostic/etc. the same way y'all tend to misuse socialist/communist/facist...
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Jul 2, 2011 10:06:58 GMT -5
Most of the Founders were not Christian, they were Deist. So... Its OK for a Christian to be public in their beliefs... but not ok for the atheist to to be public about theirs? You argue against 'keeping religion private'... and then say atheists shouldn't 'get in your face' ? ... I'm agnostic myself... but feel free to misuse atheist/agnostic/etc. the same way y'all tend to misuse socialist/communist/facist... Interesting, what is the difference between a Christian and a Deist? A Deist, as far as I know, sees God as being more hands off and setting things in motion but I do not see that being imcompatible with being Christian? Did they not believe in the New Testament and that Christ was the Son of God? If they did hold those beliefs, then yes they are Christian. As for my comments of "keeping religion private" and the rest, I have no problem with a free exchange of ideas but I don't see Christians trying to interupt the Fourth of July by dragging a banner that says "convert to Christ this 4th or Die" or the like. I don't see them having fits and misinterpreting the Constitution with nonsense like the "Seven in Heaven" sign or thinking that there is nothing wrong with confiscating someone's money via taxation and then refusing to let someone use that money to send their kid to a religious school because it's supposedly wrong to use the "public's" (i.e. OUR) money to send kids to a religious school so instead we must send our kids to either a school that is hostile to religion or a parent must pay for two educations. Some atheists, and I assume they represent most since they come from all of these "Atheist of (insert geography) Centers", simply do not mind their own business and use the government to force their will on others, as seen by fighting to allow our money to only fund their secular, anti-religious schools, not allow students at those schools to have a prayer at any sort of ceremony, or use the spacing that we all fund for things like religious studies (but an anti-US Communist group would be fine!), etc...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2011 10:19:18 GMT -5
"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" Thomas Jefferson
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 2, 2011 10:35:50 GMT -5
Here's a copy of the oath some of us took when we went to work for the USA:
I, ******************, do solemnly swear,or affirm that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
So would an atheist refuse this oath or object to the phase "So help me God"......?? Or say "so help my Satan, Buddha, Minerva "or whoever they believe in ??
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 2, 2011 10:42:35 GMT -5
"So help me God."..I guess if one wanted to really make a point they could object vocally about that line if they felt like it ..make a federal case about it..or most likely..if said in a group, just move one lips but not say it, or if done singly, alone, possible just cross two fingers , the old kid thing, "don't really mean it"..when it was recited by them..
depends on the commitment and the importance one puts on it..IMHO of course.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 2, 2011 10:49:00 GMT -5
Here's a copy of the oath some of us took when we went to work for the USA: I, ******************, do solemnly swear,or affirm that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. So would an atheist refuse this oath or object to the phase "So help me God"......?? Or say "so help my Satan, Buddha, Minerva "or whoever they believe in ?? For myself, all the "God" stuff is just me putting up with the dominant culture because it isn't worth making a big deal out it time after time. My dog tag said "Christian" because when asked and I responded, "No preference" which was the closest honest choice I had at the time, the guy asking looked so sad. He asked with a hopeful gleam in his eyes if he could put "Christian" and I said, "Sure". The guy was so happy. I was happy for him also. I didn't mind doing this small thing to make a fellow human being happy.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 2, 2011 10:56:14 GMT -5
Why not ask to have "atheist" on your dog tags?? of just leave blank...the purpose of the religion name on you dog tag is for when you are wounded or killed and the appropriate Chaplain can care for you as well as the medics/corpsmen because it has your blood type.. BTW I still carrying my dog tags on my key chain just in case I am in a serious car accident or drop dead or get hit by a car or truck while jogging...and if you drive or run in my neighborhood that is not such a bad idea..
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 2, 2011 11:05:24 GMT -5
Why not ask to have "atheist" on your dog tags?? of just leave blank...the purpose of the religion name on you dog tag is for when you are wounded or killed and the appropriate Chaplain ... 1. Because at the time, those weren't on the approved list of choices 2. It made another human being happy when I let him write the word "Christian" on the piece of paper he was filling out 3. If I was wounded, any old Chaplain who wishes to feel better by talking is welcome to do so. If I am dead, doesn't really matter who is "praying" over the piece of meat that is left.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Jul 2, 2011 11:05:56 GMT -5
And my reply to that is that my monies keep getting confiscated to support schools when my children are grown. Yes, my grandchildren are going to school, but private school. So, yes, my son's family is paying for 2 educations but why should I still have to pay? My monies also go to our sheriff's dept. but they can't protect me in time to save my life if there is an emergency at my home! Their response time to my location is about 30 min., but I still support the sheriff's dept. If you want fire protection in rural areas you need to support the VOLUNTEER fire depts. But some of my tax $$ go to support city fire depts. who wouldn't respond to my area!
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 2, 2011 11:07:35 GMT -5
Why not ask to have "atheist" on your dog tags?? of just leave blank...the purpose of the religion name on you dog tag is for when you are wounded or killed and the appropriate Chaplain ... 1. Because at the time, those weren't on the approved list of choices 2. It made another human being happy when I let him write the word "Christian" on the piece of paper he was filling out 3. If I was wounded, any old Chaplain who wishes to feel better by talking is welcome to do so. If I am dead, doesn't really matter who is "praying" over the piece of meat that is left. Are you sure>> ? But not to belabor another moot point with you but I gathered a lot of dog tags of our fallen and do recall "none"..in the space alloted for "religion"..which was at the bottom of your dog tags...and I think still is today..
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 2, 2011 11:31:54 GMT -5
...Are you sure>> ?... We are talking about a seventeen year old in boot camp thirty-seven years ago so.... I do know that a year or two later, as a Navy Yeoman, I looked at the regulations for filling out a "page 2", and at that point in time, it was true for that particular document.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 2, 2011 11:48:11 GMT -5
A Navy Yeoman or Remington Raider in nice air conditioned offices with fresh coffee and snacks while wearing cleanly pressed whites or blues....tough duty especially when some of the Yeomen were good looking young ladies who looked drop dead gorgeous in their whites......
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 2, 2011 11:50:58 GMT -5
A Navy Yeoman or Remington Raider in nice air conditioned offices with fresh coffee and snacks while wearing cleanly pressed whites or blues....tough duty especially when some of the Yeomen were good looking young ladies who looked drop dead gorgeous in their whites...... Some of my choices at seventeen were better than others.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Jul 2, 2011 12:01:07 GMT -5
This is why so many people dislike atheists: their utter arrogance and desire to rain on everyone else's parade (almost literally in this case). No one really cares about their beliefs but they sure do care about YOURS to the point of getting in your face as noted above or thinking that a street sign like "Seven in Heaven" violates the Constitution, The stupid morons don't even understand what the Establishment clause in the First Amendment is nor that the phrase "seperation of church and state" is not in the Constitution, nor that most of our Founders were religious men who were guided by their Christian principles even as they respected other's right to not be religious. Other stupid ideas of theirs: "keep religion private" like it's some evil or embarrassing thing. What does that mean? I can't wear a cross or carry a Bible? Must all Churches be hidden so as not to offend (a mega victory mosque on the sites of a Muslim attack is ok though)? Are the words "God" and "Jesus" to be struck from the public venacular? Are the religious banned from voting lest those religious twisted minds somehow make us follow some evil and warped ideas like charity or laws against murder and theft? Wow talk about arrogant...Just about every sentance in there was a contradiction that left my head spinning with all the twisting of logic and lack reality.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 2, 2011 12:03:12 GMT -5
A Navy Yeoman or Remington Raider in nice air conditioned offices with fresh coffee and snacks while wearing cleanly pressed whites or blues....tough duty especially when some of the Yeomen were good looking young ladies who looked drop dead gorgeous in their whites...... Some of my choices at seventeen were better than others. Some of us who had to wait until we were eighteen,& didn't have any choices ...you just went with the flow or where you were assigned by what we were told was for the "Good Of The Service" whatever that meant...
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Jul 2, 2011 12:09:28 GMT -5
Here is my so far favorite quote from a founding father.
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774 James Madison
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 2, 2011 12:18:00 GMT -5
Some of my choices at seventeen were better than others. Some of us who had to wait until we were eighteen,& didn't have any choices ...you just went with the flow or where you were assigned by what we were told was for the "Good Of The Service" whatever that meant... My test scores on entrance exams made it clear that giving me a job in which I used by brain more than my body would have me doing what was for the "Good Of The Service".
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 2, 2011 12:23:43 GMT -5
Some of us who had to wait until we were eighteen,& didn't have any choices ...you just went with the flow or where you were assigned by what we were told was for the "Good Of The Service" whatever that meant... My test scores on entrance exams made it clear that giving me a job in which I used by brain more than my body would have me doing what was for the "Good Of The Service". About two weeks before I finished Boot Camp I was interviewed by our XO who looked at my file and gave me 2 choices to select from just 3 .... (1) Sea School (2) Prep School for the Naval Academy, (3) Marine Air Wing Communications Tech... so I selected (1) & (2) but instead got (3) and was transfered to Cherry Point MAG 27 ..most others failed worse and ended going to AIT at Camp Geiger ..so I asked my CO why didn't I get my 1 of my 2 choices and he said "You are going to Cherry Point, now you get your scrawny butt out of my office"... ;D That is what is called for the good of the service..
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Jul 2, 2011 15:36:11 GMT -5
They may be atheists. Then again, maybe they're not. Spiritual belief takes a lot of forms, and organized religion is just one such form. Atheist is a specific belief system, it is not all-inclusive of everything non-religious. For instance, my car does not promote atheism simply because I don't have religious bumper stickers all over it. In order for it to promote atheism, I would have to have atheist bumper stickers all over it.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Jul 2, 2011 15:50:47 GMT -5
Nazism was a religion ... at the very least, a cult, but it had all the same trappings of religion, including believe in at least one god. It was filled with mysticism, ritual, and symbology.
Whatever Hitler may have said about Christianity, hating one, or even two religions does not make one an atheist. In fact, Hitler actually allied with Muslims; Himmler even allowed dark-skinned, dark-haired Muslims into the Waffen SS. Being anti-Christian does not make a person an atheist.
There are plenty of nations with a theocratic form of government. Many of them are hot and have a lot of sand. Perhaps one of these nations would be more to your liking?
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