When Free is too expensive.......

[KaraBoo]

ETA that if he is still in the bankruptcy process, any "gift" to you could be seized as property of the estate - so then you'd still get to hear about the "gift", have to deal with even more hassle, and have nothing to show for it.


I hadn't even thought about the bankruptcy angle. I'm not sure if the process has been finalized or not....I think it has been as I received a letter stating I was still going to receive the money he owes me since CS is not dischargeable. But I don't know if that letter was stating it was closed or just for informational purposes....I'll have to go check.

Thanks for mentioning that!

[Tiny]

Playing alittle devil's advocate (as I have an odd fondness for cars/trucks that barely run and need tons of work):
How old is your son? Is he project oriented? Is he mechanically inclined? Any of his friends mechanically inclined?

Would your kid (and DH) get any pleasure out of fixing up the truck themselves? My older brothers always had a junker they were working on when I was little kid (I got to help sometimes hence my fondness/good memories of old nearly not running junkers).

Could it be a 'summer project' - filled with taking it apart, visiting junk yards for replacement parts, with maybe the satisfaction of a running truck at the end? Depends on your kid and your DH though...

FWIW: One year, a woman told a lie so sweet and unexpected she took first place in the Liar's Contest. She started out talking about the dog her family had... how she acquired it, and all the expenses (bowls, leash, vet visit, a fence, shoes,toys, etc...) that occurred... the jist of the lie was that the Dog was FREE... a most expensive free dog.

[KaraBoo]

Jun 29, 2011 9:52:28 GMT -5 Taxman10 said:

Jun 29, 2011 9:48:04 GMT -5 KaraBoo said:

Tax - I know where you can get one!!

I thought you said it was automatic?? sorry i didn't read all the posts that carefully...now i'm on e-bay looking for one!! LOL :-)

Sorry - I mis-ready your's as well. Yes, we thought it was a standard originally by his initial description, but it turned out to be automatic......

[973beachbum]

Jun 29, 2011 9:28:16 GMT -5 KaraBoo said:

Jun 29, 2011 9:22:12 GMT -5 midjd said:

Just say no. More trouble than it's worth. (Couldn't he scrap it for salvage and give whatever proceeds to you for the back CS?)

He could, but won't. The truck will sit in his driveway until he's forced to deal with it.

At least if we took it, we'd at least get the money directly. He'd spend it on everything except CS.

I am sure if you or ex look on Craigs list you will find a bunch of people who, assuming he has the title to sign over ;D , will pay him $300 to take the truck. And they will come to his place an tow it away for him. As old and heavy as that truck is it is worth it to them for scrap metal.

Not that that means he would actually pay his child support with it.

[midjd]

Sociopaths and narcissists are VERY adept at putting out a completely different image than their actual personality. This can last for years. By the time their true personality comes out, you're convinced YOU must be the crazy one...

Of course not every crazy ex is a sociopath/narcissist, but you'd be surprised how many are out there.

(Sorry, I need to start using more quotes! This was in response to Strider).

[KaraBoo]

Jun 29, 2011 9:50:15 GMT -5 strider said:

Jun 29, 2011 9:45:30 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

Cause it doesn't start out this way

Trying not to be rude but how? Because he probably paid for the dates? Yes I'm cynical.

It's like the deal with Doxie. How do two people so uncompatible end up together?

I can't speak for Doxie, but in my case I was young and naive and wanted to believe in the best in people. The stuff that is obvious to me now, I was blind to back then.

We had a whirlwind romance (6 month) before we got married. I was pregnant withing the first month of being married (long story). By the time DS was born nine months later, I was starting to realize I had made a horrible mistake in marrying the EX. Before DS was 1 year old, I left him.

[KaraBoo]

Jun 29, 2011 9:53:28 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Playing alittle devil's advocate (as I have an odd fondness for cars/trucks that barely run and need tons of work):
How old is your son? Is he project oriented? Is he mechanically inclined? Any of his friends mechanically inclined?

Would your kid (and DH) get any pleasure out of fixing up the truck themselves? My older brothers always had a junker they were working on when I was little kid (I got to help sometimes hence my fondness/good memories of old nearly not running junkers).

Could it be a 'summer project' - filled with taking it apart, visiting junk yards for replacement parts, with maybe the satisfaction of a running truck at the end? Depends on your kid and your DH though...

FWIW: One year, a woman told a lie so sweet and unexpected she took first place in the Liar's Contest. She started out talking about the dog her family had... how she acquired it, and all the expenses (bowls, leash, vet visit, a fence, shoes,toys, etc...) that occurred... the jist of the lie was that the Dog was FREE... a most expensive free dog.

This must be why I can't let this stupid truck go in my mind. I grew up with my dad repairing and restoring Corvairs. My first vehicle was a 1962 Corvair Coupe and I have many fond and frustrating memories of that car.

DS is 14, so he would have several years to work on this truck before he "needed" it to drive. He has expressed an interest in learning about repairing vehicles, but right now it's all talk and very little follow through since our vehicles need little to no work currently. I don't think he's that mechanically inclined, but he's never really had anything he was "invested" in either, so that might change if he had a vehicle to work on.

DH said he would be up for the challenge if we had a garage to take it apart in and leave it there without worry that parts/tools would walk off. We don't however, so it would be sitting in our backyard until DH felt like working on it.

[midjd]

If you really do want a fixer-upper, I'm sure you could find a good one for $1K or so - without all the strings attached. I think the financial and emotional cost associated with a 40-year-old truck from the ex is too high.

[CarolinaKat]

what Midwestern said.

Do you even know if DS wants a truck? He might like something better if given a budget and a craigslist.

[swamp]

Jun 29, 2011 9:54:11 GMT -5 KaraBoo said:

Jun 29, 2011 9:52:28 GMT -5 Taxman10 said:

I thought you said it was automatic?? sorry i didn't read all the posts that carefully...now i'm on e-bay looking for one!! LOL :-)

Sorry - I mis-ready your's as well. Yes, we thought it was a standard originally by his initial description, but it turned out to be automatic......

Wow, your ex is too dumb to knows that 2 pedals are on an automatic and 3 pedals are in a standard?

[skubikky]

Unbelievable...

Let me guess. You married this dufe when you were young, got pregnant. He turned out to be a lying , lazy, unemployed POS. You continued to make excuses for him as he always had some BS story to justify his POS ness.... until you finally woke up.

Did you learn anything from the history you have with this guy? I suspect that he's incapable of telling the truth even with regard to the most mundane everyday things?

People like that wouldn't know the truth if it came up and bit them in the ass.

This is on you.....the word you need to practice is "NO".

[KaraBoo]

Skubikky - LOL!!

Yes, I learned my lesson with him pretty quickly - I was only with him a total of about 2.5 years (from 1st date to divorce). I've also learned not to believe about 90% of what comes out of his mouth as it won't be the whole truth in any shape or form - there is always a grain of truth to what he is saying, the trick is to wade through the BS to figure out what it is. Most of the time I don't bother, but I thought this time was worth it.

To a point, I've also learned that if I expect to get any help from him at all in regards to our son, to take what I can get when I can get it because I won't see anything for a while. Hence for even thinking about this endeavor in the first place.

[KaraBoo]

Jun 29, 2011 11:04:09 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 29, 2011 9:54:11 GMT -5 KaraBoo said:

Sorry - I mis-ready your's as well. Yes, we thought it was a standard originally by his initial description, but it turned out to be automatic......

Wow, your ex is too dumb to knows that 2 pedals are on an automatic and 3 pedals are in a standard?

Classic example of one of EX's "lies" (if anyone is interested). When Ex was talking to me on Saturday (with the phone on speaker, so DH heard it too), he said the truck had a 3-speed on the column shifter and would be easy to tow.

DH and I understood that to mean it was a standard, with the 3 on the tree. Turns out it was an automatic with 3 gears.

If I had called EX out on that as a "lie", he would have said that he never stated it was a standard or an automatic, just that it had 3 speeds on the shifter and that was the truth. He would then get all huffy that I even dared to imply that he lied to us because I mis-understood him.

He knows the difference between an automatic and a standard vehicle (the vehicle he owned when we got together was a standard), but I'm pretty sure he was clueless that we couldn't have easily towed the automatic home like he suggested.

I didn't bother pointing all of this out to him. It just would have made talking to him even more difficult as he's never wrong.

[taz157]

Jun 29, 2011 9:22:29 GMT -5 swamp said:

::Now....my dilemma - I know the EX will probably come back to me in a week or two stating he HAS to get rid of it and would we reconsider as the sale fell through.::

Tell him: I'm sorry, Mr. Douchecanoe, but I fail to see why this is my problem.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"If I had called EX out on that as a "lie", he would have said that he never stated it was a standard or an automatic, just that it had 3 speeds on the shifter and that was the truth. He would then get all huffy that I even dared to imply that he lied to us because I mis-understood him.":::...

IMO, this is one of those sentiments that everyone hates being on the receiving end of, but sometimes you have no choice but to use. I know I loathe when I'm in an argument and I get blamed based on a mis-quote or mis-understanding. You better believe I will make sure everyone understands the difference between the words that came out of my mouth, and the incorrect conclusion someone else drew from them.

I'm in systems design and contracting, so that can be ESPECIALLY important too. Things that are synonyms in "English" are not at all synonyms in contracting. For example: termination date and end date mean two different things.

This whole thread reminds of Seinfeld when George flat out says that if Jerry gives him the superbowl ticket, Jerry is handing him a bill for $1,500.

[Tiny]

Since DS is 14 (with possibly no interest) and you've got nowhere to store the truck - I think you should be done with the Free Truck. When DS is 16 and in HS and maybe had a shop class or two and/or started hanging out with the 'Car Geeks' that's when you take a 'Free' barely working auto for him to mess with.

Why not just let your ex do what he wants with the Truck (most likely scrap it)? Cars/Trucks in bad condition only have 'value' to someone who's gonna fix it up by dumping money into it or if the make/model/year are considered 'fix up worthy' by Car Hobby-ists (aka Car Geeks) in which case they'll most likely want it for parts.

**note - Corvairs are very cool. That's the one the few makes/models of car my brother didn't own (everything from MG midget to a huge Galaxie (I think that's what it was - it was HUGE) - mind you my dear brother buys running junkers and then attempts to keep them running without really restoring them. He in his 50's and still tinkers on cars.

[bring in the new year]

Nqtykarabo,

I'd be waiting for the other shoe to drop on this one. Bankruptcy, parking tickets, something.

You say you're looking for this for your son. Your son is going to have hear for the rest of his life how his old man gave him a car for his birthday. A classic truck.

There will be no mention of the work your son & DH put into the truck. No mention of the money you had to put into the truck. No, it will be one more example of how your son is so ungrateful when his dad gave him a truck.

Tell me I'm wrong.

If not, tell ex no, thank you and take son to a junkyard yourself in the next year.

I really do know and understand why you want get something from ex for your child, but really, as the person who was a child in that relationship, let it go. Get the child support if you can but stay out of his crazy swaps.

[KaraBoo]

Jun 29, 2011 12:33:55 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"If I had called EX out on that as a "lie", he would have said that he never stated it was a standard or an automatic, just that it had 3 speeds on the shifter and that was the truth. He would then get all huffy that I even dared to imply that he lied to us because I mis-understood him.":::...

IMO, this is one of those sentiments that everyone hates being on the receiving end of, but sometimes you have no choice but to use. I know I loathe when I'm in an argument and I get blamed based on a mis-quote or mis-understanding. You better believe I will make sure everyone understands the difference between the words that came out of my mouth, and the incorrect conclusion someone else drew from them.

You're right and I didn't use the best example in describing my Ex and how he twists words. I have a slightly better one that I left out of my original post that I just remembered.....

In the initial phone call that DH was listening to, EX stated it needed a fuel filter, air filter and general going over maintenance wise.

When we arrived to look at the truck and was attempting to start it, EX commented on the fact that the fuel filter was missing entirely and to be cautious as there was no telling what junk had gotten into the engine with the filter being missing.

Knowing the EX like I do, he wouldn't have viewed his omission of the filter being missing as a lie as he clearly said the truck needed one. However, a reasonable person would assume that the filter was there, but was old and needed to be replaced - not that the filter was missing all together.

Based on his logic, I also wouldn't have known if the air filter, spark plugs, engine, etc were also missing as the only things he mentioned being actually on the truck were new brakes and re-built transmission.

Like I said before - trying to figure out what is the actual truth from him is like playing 20 questions where the rules change to suit his purposes.

[Tiny]

Gosh, I'm hoping you took/told your DS about the Free Truck... this could be really AWFUL if not when he hears about from someone (the ex?). Free stuff you didn't get a chance to have - even if it's poop on a stick - starts to get better and more wonderful the more people talk about what was...
I'd say the kid needs to know maybe even first hand (versus your word against the ex's) what the truck entailed. This is a good lesson about the cost of repairs, cost of insurance, cost of gas, etc... When you come up with the final total (probably 1K or more) to get the truck running - you can point out he could get a BETTER vehicle for that 1K.

[midjd]

Well said, Bridget.

[KaraBoo]

Jun 29, 2011 12:40:16 GMT -5 bring in the new year said:

Nqtykarabo,

I'd be waiting for the other shoe to drop on this one. Bankruptcy, parking tickets, something.

You say you're looking for this for your son. Your son is going to have hear for the rest of his life how his old man gave him a car for his birthday. A classic truck.

There will be no mention of the work your son & DH put into the truck. No mention of the money you had to put into the truck. No, it will be one more example of how your son is so ungrateful when his dad gave him a truck.

Tell me I'm wrong.
If not, tell ex no, thank you and take son to a junkyard yourself in the next year.

I really do know and understand why you want get something from ex for your child, but really, as the person who was a child in that relationship, let it go. Get the child support if you can but stay out of his crazy swaps.

You are so right in the above bolded quote.


To all of you wondering if I'm going to get the truck, the answer is still no. I was just wondering if any of you saw another angle I wasn't thinking about that I hadn't considered.

Many of you have brought up things in the negative column that I hadn't thought of (like the bankruptcy), but have mirrored my own decision and helped me to justify my answer in case the EX comes knocking again.

Thanks!

[skubikky]

Jun 29, 2011 12:45:59 GMT -5 midjd said:

Well said, Bridget.

I second that...

[hoops902]

"However, a reasonable person would assume that the filter was there, but was old and needed to be replaced - not that the filter was missing all together."

Would they? If someone told me they had a 40 year old truck and it "needs" A, B, & C...I think my first thought would be that those things are missing. Maybe Ex knows exactly what he's doing when he says it, but as someone who doesn't know much about cars, that would be my first thought. Honestly, it wouldn't even cross my mind to note the difference between being completely missing, or being completely useless and needing to be replaced. All I'd be thinking is that "that's a problem, gotta fix it".

Heck if you asked me what my truck needed right now I'd tell you it needed a windshield, radio, and tailgate. It wouldn't even occur to me to point out which ones I have but are useless, and which one I just don't have at all. That's not to say I couldn't paint that picture on purpose, in this case though it just wouldn't cross my mind.

[CarolinaKat]

'needing' something and 'needing a new' something are very different. Especially when it's a routinely replacable part (filters, belts, sparkplugs, batteries). Actually to me, 'needing' a regularly replaced part would make me think that it has a filter/belt but it's not working properly

You don't change out windshields often

ETA: spelling fail

[KaraBoo]

Jun 29, 2011 12:45:25 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Gosh, I'm hoping you took/told your DS about the Free Truck... this could be really AWFUL if not when he hears about from someone (the ex?). Free stuff you didn't get a chance to have - even if it's poop on a stick - starts to get better and more wonderful the more people talk about what was...
I'd say the kid needs to know maybe even first hand (versus your word against the ex's) what the truck entailed. This is a good lesson about the cost of repairs, cost of insurance, cost of gas, etc... When you come up with the final total (probably 1K or more) to get the truck running - you can point out he could get a BETTER vehicle for that 1K.

I did talk to DS about the truck.

I let him know before we ever went to look at the truck that he was staying home as this needed to be a business decision, not an emotional one. I also informed him that the final decision rested with me because we (DH and I) would be the ones attempting to get it running and in drivable condition, not his dad. DS said he understood.

After we turned the truck down, I talked to DS again. DS has ridden in the truck before (about 2 years ago) and remembers how bad of a shape it was in back then. I informed him that it would cost a lot of money to get running and that we didn't have the space or the money to fix it at this time. I also talked to him about the fact that his dad may come back and say that he tried to give him a truck, but that I was a horrible mother by not letting him. DS said he wouldn't believe that story because he knew I was only trying to keep him safe and that if I said the truck was not safe and too expensive to fix, then that was good enough for him.

DS knows that EX tries to play games and lies - he's been on the receiving end himself. He knows that his dad is not the best person in the world, but he wouldn't be human if he wasn't just a little bit excited about the possibility of getting a vehicle from him anyway. This is the 2nd time EX has promised DS a vehicle that didn't happen (the first time I had nothing to do with it, EX sold it without telling anyone he was after promising it to his son), so DS is unfortunately used to it.

[hoops902]

Jun 29, 2011 12:57:29 GMT -5 CarolinaKat said:

'needing' something and 'needing a new' something are very different. Especially when it's a routinely replacable part (filters, belts, sparkplugs, batteries). Actually to me, 'needing' a regularly replaced part would make me think that it has a filter/belt but it's not working properly

You don't change out windshields often

ETA: spelling fail

I guess the more I think about it, it's not even so much that I would think "it's gone" vs "it's there but used up". I just wouldn't even think to differentiate it at all. My goal would be to list off the things wrong with it. So if I said it needs a windshield, air filter, gas cap, radio, tailgate, and transmission...it simply wouldn't occur to me to go into more detail on each item until someone asked. And thinking about it logically after the fact, i would assume you'd think I had all of it except a gas cap and maybe a radio...but it's not as if I'd think of myself as "lying" when I said it. Again, not that I couldn't intentionally do it, but people who aren't "car people" probably barely think about the difference if a car is sitting there unused about whether it's got a fuel filter that's not usable, or whether there isn't one there at all.

[Clever Username]

Fun story.

I know what it's like to get suckered into drama like this. At the point where he "got" an offer for $1500, I'd have exited telling him that would allow him to pay you $100 for parts, $1000 child support and $400 if he wanted to buy his son a project car.

I work in bankruptcy, the gift of a 1970 F1000 would not be a problem, it might get literally laughed at. I just tore into someone this morning for gifts to insiders, that was $3000 cash and though it makes our job easier if they didn't do it, probably won't amount to anything.

[KaraBoo]

Hoops - true, maybe we should have just assumed the parts were missing. However, at the time he was talking to us on the phone, the only thing he said was missing was the keys to start it. To me, knowing my EX, the omission was on purpose to paint the truck in better condition than it actually is in.

He also stated that the city insepctor called him to tell him he had another month to get the vehicle running or gone. I don't know too many city insepctors that work on Sunday afternoons (although I could be wrong on that aspect as well).

Then he stated the previous owner, to the previous owner, that EX didn't even know had somehow gotten his wife's cell phone number to call him up to offer $1500 for the vehicle in current condition. How somebody you don't know gets your wife's cell phone number is beyond me......and just happens to call in the exact 2 hours we were resting from looking at the truck is a mystery.

All in all, with my EX, it is a pack of lies and I should have declined before I ever even answered the original phone call.

[KaraBoo]

Clever - we basically did - except for the fact that we learned that information about the other "offer" after we had dumped gas into it that we had purchased. We drove it around, just to use up some of the gas (and left it idling while DH and I talked about our options).

When we brought the truck back from the test drive, we told him if he could get $1500 for it, more power to him as it would cost at least that much to get it in useable condition.

Also - thanks for the information about the bankruptcy and gift...that is good to know.

[strider]

This car sounds like it is stolen or at the least held up by bandaids (possibly literally). Just say no and call it a day. This isn't your problem. I feel bad for your son but I'd feel worse if he got hurt or in legal trouble.