cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jun 28, 2011 9:00:26 GMT -5
If a family decides to raise children in one place until they finish high school they may also find they don't want to move later. Once your children are grown they develop relationships, have jobs and roots so if you move they may not be willing to. Some kids will relocate anyhow when they are grown but where they grew up will be home where things are familiar. Moving when your kids are 16-20 might be the worst time to move. My parents moved when I was 17 starting my senior year. I left home the night I graduated moved back to were I was from. My brothers left home as soon as they graduated and joined the service so were gone 9-25 years but moved home again. I lived out of state about 7 years but came home again. My parents moved back when the youngest was 18 but it they had gone somewhere else I don't think us kids would have ended up where they were. Now mom has the kids and grand kids who grew up here close and the ones who grew up somewhere else she never sees. My brothers married girls from here so the grand kids have both families here except the divorced brother's kids from other marriages to out of the area women.
So my advice is if you settle in one place for 15-20 years plan it for life you aren't likely to want to ever move again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 9:01:18 GMT -5
Sorry aBout the misspellings and grammar. On the road for work and posting from my blackberry.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 28, 2011 10:49:17 GMT -5
We made the decisions based on 1) income 2) family 3) passion
I started working when my husband started grad school. (He'd been working while I was getting my masters, but we weren't yet married when I was in grad school.) As it turns out, I can make more than my husband can. And, at this point with the lifestyle we want (as close to a SAHP lifestyle as we can get), we can't live off my husband's salary should he return to the workforce full time. He'd be looking at entry level jobs. I would also have to give up my second job, and start from scratch building up new clients. So, we'd initially lose 30% of our income.
I ranked passion as last, because like most intangible things like that, I can't write a check for passion out to pay our electric bill.
We also want to have roots for our kids. We know some people that just like to move every 3 years. I don't understand that mentality. I get that it works for them, but moving is such a PITA. I wouldn't choose to do it that often.
FWIW, I've never really met anyone who has remained married with two high powered jobs (Lawyer and college professor, for example) that are both advancing their careers. Most people I know one spouse "sacrifices" for the other. But I've always seen people take turns..This "I can have it all, all the time" thing, I think is a load of crap. People who are career driven (work 10-12 hours a day) do it at the expense of their other relationships. Or, if you decide to prioritize your family relationships, then you'll likely make less money, and have less resources to do things with.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Jun 28, 2011 12:03:38 GMT -5
Why is that? Is she planning to quit and become at SAHM?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 14:03:29 GMT -5
Kgb18, when we first got married she expressed that desire, or at least cut back to part time.
A) with 100k students laons that costs $1,052/motnh ($1,370/every 3 months) she realised prettry quickly it would not be possible. B) Unless I manage two make enough to replace our combined income in the next 3 years, we would need to cut back on a lot of things. C) I refused to pay her student loans unless as noted she just can't find a job
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 28, 2011 14:15:33 GMT -5
OMG, that's a house payment! If I owed money like that, I'd be sick to my stomach.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 28, 2011 15:25:23 GMT -5
I would pay special attention to that one. Taking a recent thread as an example, there can be quite a difference of opinion on what constitutes not being able to find a job. And Dark says he made it clear before and during her time in school that he wasn't paying Loop's SLs... but 3 years later, guess who's been paying Loop's SLs?
If your DW knows that you don't want to pay her SLs, BUT will if she can't find a job... do you think she'll really put her all into job searching? If I were you, I'd take that option off the table. Without knowing the interest rate, I'm assuming your DW's loan payments are around $1000/month, correct? She can easily cover that even working at minimum wage.
Obviously, you know her better than we do... but I think many people faced with those options (#1 - work, pay SLs; #2 - "can't find a job", stay home, Cawaiu pays SLs) would choose option #2.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 28, 2011 15:32:46 GMT -5
1052 x 3 = 3156 1370/3 = 457 ??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 15:50:46 GMT -5
Her loan from Hofstra is due every 3 months while sallie mae and feds is due every month. So every 3 months, we pay $1370 instead of the regular $1052.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 28, 2011 16:12:24 GMT -5
...:::"For her to stay home it would require us to do some serious cut backs. Also I have been quite vocal about how I feel about her student lans and I will not be paying them.":::...
Ah, but you could have her stay at home AND maintain the current standard of living if YOU made enough money to do so.
In all fairness, as a team, would you mind paying her loans if you made enough money and got a SAHM in exchange? I don't recall exactly how you feel about parenting vs. daycare but sometimes you optimize your overall situation when one person works and the other stays at home.
As this topic has come up more and more, I understand how it can be tempting to see your partner's SLs as "their debt" and "useless waste when he/she is just going to stay at home". The value of a SAHP is quite high, especially if it means quality time at night.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 28, 2011 16:43:29 GMT -5
There is a reality (and man, do I hate saying this) that both of you can't be super-power-mega-career people when you have young children. One can be SPMC and the other can stay home or work a flexible and understanding job, or both of you can bend and flex in your career, turning down the harder assignments to keep some balance with your family. You will have to decide which one is best for your family and act accordingly.
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sbcalimom
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Post by sbcalimom on Jun 28, 2011 19:53:58 GMT -5
We opted to put DH's career ahead of mine since I didn't really like the field I was in and wanted to be primarily a SAHM once we had kids. When he went to get his Masters in Chicago I stayed in California because it was only a 9 month program. When he got into his PhD program though, we moved for that together. I was not and still aren't really a fan of the move but it had to be done. Now that we do have two kids and I stay at home with them all day, it doesn't really matter as much to me though. Also, I mostly work online so I could do that anywhere as long as I have flexible hours to devote to teaching. We're working mostly on balance though - just because we put his career/education first doesn't mean my needs etc are irrelevant. It has been really hard to find a balance between childcare, working, and relationship but we're muddling through. Hopefully we'll find the right balance soon and manage to maximize our situation. I think the most important thing to do is communicate the whole way through. One mistake I've made is not not telling DH I was angry about things, not letting him know he was not helping enough. It's hard for him to fix them if he doesn't know about them and its hard to work together if you're not coming from the same place.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jun 29, 2011 9:40:24 GMT -5
I think a lot of this depends on what your wife wants to get her Ph.D., in and if she wishes to enter academia after she finishes her Ph.D. Because for most people in academia the market is national (and in some fields international), and if she wants a full-time job then you will have to become the trailing spouse. Of course a lot of that depends on the field she is in and what her plans are in after graduation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 12:05:08 GMT -5
[quote author=giramomma board=finance thread=10532 post=425901 time=1309276157 FWIW, I've never really met anyone who has remained married with two high powered jobs (Lawyer and college professor, for example) that are both advancing their careers. Most people I know one spouse "sacrifices" for the other. But I've always seen people take turns..This "I can have it all, all the time" thing, I think is a load of crap. People who are career driven (work 10-12 hours a day) do it at the expense of their other relationships. Or, if you decide to prioritize your family relationships, then you'll likely make less money, and have less resources to do things with.
[/quote]
I completely agree.
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bring in the new year
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Post by bring in the new year on Jun 29, 2011 13:15:19 GMT -5
As a single person I don't have these problems. I will take exception to the attitude about HER student loans. She has a job, she can pay her SL, you're asking her to quit that job but you won't be responsible for her SL. If she doesn't move with you, does she having any problem paying them off? If she doesn't, then you've disrupted the situation and you have to take some responsibility for that. Also, this isn't the 1950s. Relocation every few years is wonderful when you can expect lifetime employment and a clear promotion track. Not so great when the company could lay you off in three years. How stable is your industry? Who else would hire you to do what you do? If they offer you the relo, I might also try and do a little negotiation here. It sounds like you work a huge company. If so, they should have headhunters on retainer. Mention to them (at the time of the relo offer) that it would go a long way to easing both you and your wife if she could use the headhunter's facilities for her job search. Or (even better) if they could find her a temporary position until she can find a job in her own field. I also have to say I hear a lot of men assuming your wife really, really wants to be a SAHM. Just be aware - I know women who divorced their husbands because after having been perfectly clear about what they wanted, their husbands just assumed the situation would change when the kids came along. So I have to ask you, if your wife said honey, I found a great position in BF Alaska, but it's okay, because you can stay home with the kids - how would you feel? (No, that wasn't the only issue. But women who are making more money being told to quit their jobs so he can move to where they might make half of what she's making tend to be fighting about a lot of things.)
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 29, 2011 13:53:51 GMT -5
At this point, I frankly don't care whose career takes off first - but I want at least one of us to have the ability to put it first. I would sort of prefer that person be me, but if it worked out that it were DF (and he was happy with the career) then that would be okay.
I would be more inclined to start a home business than just flat-out stay home but I could see it working.
The one with the higher-powered career would basically need to be earning at least $100k though. Neither of us will reach that for awhile. So for now, it's a moot point and I figure we'll be better served by working as hard as we can, advancing as fast as we can, and saving as much as we can before we have kids. When we're ready to take that step, we'll see where we are.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 29, 2011 13:56:51 GMT -5
...:::"because after having been perfectly clear about what they wanted, their husbands just assumed the situation would change when the kids came along":::...
This is an interesting statement. Based on what we know of cawiau and his wife, we feel she has been crystal clear, just non-verbally. While she has never come out and explicitly said "I want/don't want to be a SAHM", she has said numerous other things, and holds many beliefs that suggest at the VERY least, cawiau has to be prepared for her to want to SAH when the kids do come along.
She loves nice things, we know that -- but like I said earlier, all that has to happen for her to have nice things and be a SAHM is cawiau making enough money to allow that. Plain and simple.
Not to mention that the reverse can also be true. We've seen posts from frustrated spouses who thought they "had a deal" about both working, when low and behold the SAH doesn't ever want to go back.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 29, 2011 14:10:12 GMT -5
Not to mention that the reverse can also be true. We've seen posts from frustrated spouses who thought they "had a deal" about both working, when low and behold the SAH doesn't ever want to go back.
To be fair, you really don't know how you are going to react when you have a kid. You may think you want to stay home and decide it isn't for you or you may think you want to continue working and find it not in the cards for whatever reason.
So, based on this situation I'm wondering if it wouldn't make more sense (assuming still planning on having kids) to plan to have your next child shortly after the next job relocation. Then plan on having your wife stay home a couple years and then relocate to an area where she could get her PHD. Only you know what is best, but I thought i would throw that out there.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 29, 2011 14:17:46 GMT -5
Well once the kid comes along, the DINK lifestyle is a thing of the past. Mrs. cawiau would have to be in a job/career where paying for daycare makes sense. Depending on where they are at the time, that could be quite a lofty goal.
Yes, people's minds do change, and you don't know how you are going to feel. But its not easy on the spouse who feels like he/she held up his/her end of the bargain.
Plus, its hard to make decisions based on theoretical data. Its easy to say you'll move when you think the destination could be a good one. When your spouse comes home with an offer for a place that isn't a good fit for you, its not so easy. Think again of Dark and Loop. The money was too good for Dark to turn down, but there are no jobs in Loop's field, and there may not be much to do.
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bring in the new year
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Post by bring in the new year on Jun 29, 2011 14:19:25 GMT -5
Wewillbegrown, Then I must have misread. Because what I heard was wife was passionate about her PhD. That's not a level of commitment to academics I'd expect in someone who intends to stay home permanently. I do know about the reverse as well. Sister's SIL was going to go back after second child and then surprise, she got pregnant "accidentally" twice. At this point I don't think BIL will bring it up ever again for fear of another baby. I think the real issue we may be skirting around is that given the way the economy has gone over the last 20 years with off shoring and layoffs etc. can any of us really just relax in a job and not be planning to find another job on a moment's notice? I know relocations used to be fast tracking to executive status, but I'm just not sure that any company is that stable long term any more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 18:27:59 GMT -5
Hi to answer a few questions:
A) I believe I will always have a job. Maybe not with my company but at least another one. Simple reason why: everyone got to eat.
B) I would have no issue paying my wife student loans if she could not find a job after we move because of me or she is in between jobs. I did it for 4 months last year. It would be an issue ig she "choose" not to work when she can/able to work.
C) She wants/need a PhD because her goal is to get into academia eventually. So yes her PhD while not necessary now, she needs to get it eventually unless she decided she no longer wants to pursue it.
D) Yes my wife wanted to be a stay at home mom in the past because as someone that was raised by a single mom she felt her mom did not love/want her because she was always working. My wife was technically raise by her nanny (her mom was just a paycheck). But as we talked about it her mom needed to work that hard because during that time her mom needed to work 2-3 times as hard as the other man in her field to prove she belongs. And let's not forget that it is thanks to that hard work my wife got to enjoy the upper middle class life she had. -> but during that time she has seen her friends get divorce and struggling and is more affraid of that then her kid feeling unloved. My wife loves the idea of financial security just as much as I do but for different reasons. In her case she wants to know if we were to divorce she could still maitain the same lifestyle. -> Also, this is why we are planning on having kids when she starts her PhD program. So she gets her dream to be somewhat a stay at home parent (not full time but better than juggling a 60 hrs week job) and continuing her education. She just don't want her kids to feel like she did. She understands now that she is older why her mom had to do it, but it doesn't erase the fact that is how she felt growing up.
D) I would have no issue following her to Atlanta (I think that is where it's located) if she was to get offered a job at the CDCD headquarters tomorrow. That's her dream and I would support it, or a teaching position a couple of years down the road.
I just want to know how other couples find the balance between two careers and ambitions.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 18:43:55 GMT -5
WBBG: after seeing two of our friends get divorce, another losing her husband and her cousin not being able to enjoy her marternity leave because her husband is a lazy ass SOB my wife flat out told me the only way she would ever depend on a man aka me was if after I died or divorce her she would still not need to get back to work. -> and you have to understand our culture to see her point. In our culture social status means a lot. Her mom is still ashame of me because I only have a bachelors and somewhat the same for my mom. I am not a lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc. There is no tittle next to my name and I am not rich.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 29, 2011 20:02:44 GMT -5
They should be proud of you! You are doing very well at a young age and have your head on straight.
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bring in the new year
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Post by bring in the new year on Jun 29, 2011 20:20:16 GMT -5
Cawiau, thanks very much for the clarification.
I know you asked for advice in general but the trouble is no one size fits all. In my family, starting back with my aunts and their cousins, they liked to work. They put the youngest child in school (as one of my older cousins told me) and found a job the next day. Because of this thread, I asked my sister to think of SAHM who were happy in our childhood and we couldn't think of one. Most of them worked part time and none of them had help (housekeepers, nannies, etc), but the happiest moms we knew had jobs. Granted it was the late 60s but still it was a pretty clear lesson to us.
My sister could probably be described as a SAHM now but she and her husband own their own business. She does all the office work, he does the estimates and managing. He's out from 7-3 and home in time to coach the girls' sports teams.
That's the answer I know.
Reading a lot of other answers on this board, you'll see a lot of people who want to be SAHM and love it. You'll see a lot of husbands who find it wonderful to have one. I don't think they're wrong - it's just different from what I know.
But I will say this. I believe in education like no one's business - but I only have a bachelor's myself. BIL's family doesn't seem to care much about education but likes white collar work - so the fact that they have a business they started from scratch which now employs 5-6 guys year round still causes his family to look down on BIL and sister. And I understand how culture changes how we see our successes. (I once met a guy who was at the top of his field internationally and he said his mother told him he should have been a doctor.) But you can't define your success by someone else's yardstick - mainly because they keep moving the goal.
Both of you are employed, you seem to be happy. Ask yourself would they rather you were a doctor and divorced or a lawyer and unemployed? Do you like what you're doing? If you're not rich now, so what. You're still young and your boss thinks you have great potential. In ten years, you'll be the one they brag about.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 30, 2011 10:26:57 GMT -5
They should be proud of you! You are doing very well at a young age and have your head on straight.
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