How do you make it work

[Deleted]

when you are both working and both ambitious?
Does one career take the back seat (less responsibilities/less promotions) so the other one can more forward? Or is it possible to make both work?


3 years ago we relocated to upstate NY so my wife could get her masters and I left my job in NJ. Last year after she graduated, we relocated again but this time for a job I was offered.

I currently feel that I am in a right spot and have room for advancement within the company. But here is the issue:

Last Friday my boss came from the corporate office for a meeting and then took me out to the lunch. And during the conversation she asked: did your wife find a job yet? And I said yes. Did she love the area?

I said yes she loves it and making new friends, joined a running club, and thinking about starting her PhD next year.

My boss went a bit quiet then later towards the end of the lunch said: if I were you, I wouldn't get to attach to the area. The good thing about you and X (a friend of mine that just relocated to Vermont) you are both willing to relocate.

You have the choice to refuse to relocate for a promotion but
a) don't expect to get ask again or soon afterwards
b) might take you awhile within your zone to get promoted (I mention that I work for a company with alot of lifers)

So willing to relocate helps with the process. I signed for my current location for 2 years but I am thinking/hoping I will be here 5 but anything can happen.

Now the issue: my wife career
a) We talk about it and she is ok with postponing her PhD till we are somewhere stable. And she said working longer will help with her application.

b) Following me will force her to change jobs. More relations are never less than a year but can be anywhere from 1 - till you retire (some people relocated and never moved again). So we are thinking how thay may affect her when she has to start looking for another job?

c) She is ok with relocating until we have kids and they are school age. She feels by then I need to either find position at the corporate office (will still require travel but my home base will remain upstate so more stable) or find a more stable job. My wife likes the idea of raising kids in one spot from kindergaten till high school graduation (feels it stable for them, familiar, etc). Since that is not for another 8 years (thinking 3 years till first child and another 5 till they start PreK) we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

So how do most couple juggle two careers and the demands that come with it? And when it comes to relocating, has it affect the other spouse chances of finding a job? What if along the way she gets a better job opportunity (her dream job would be to work for the CDC), I am thinking I would have to follow her so find a new job too!

Single and selfish is so much easier for career advancement

[zibazinski]

That is true but then again, I still feel her career will end when she has kids so I would do what was right for you AS LONG as it monetarily afforded her to be able to stay home. There has to be tradeoffs for someone else climbing the ladder at the expense of another.

[cael]

My fiance and I are both going back to school within the year - he for an associates (finally, his first degree) and me for a master's, (finally - my LAST degree!). If we ever relocate to a different state, which we've talked about, I'd probably be the one to find the job to relocate for. I wouldn't have an issue relocating with kids, I just wouldn't want to do it more than once while they were growing up. Since we will probably have kids starting in about 2 years, I'll be in the middle of grad school at that point, so when I finish and start looking at jobs, we'd be looking at having toddlers to kindergarten age kids to relocate with. (we want to have 2 kids, relatively close in age) My career/school has been at the forefront just because I am in an established career and am farther with school at this point than DF. DF is going to school for either management or culinary arts because he wants to work in restaurants, so he could find work of some sort anywhere we move to (he has a lot of restaurant & management experience and is very good at what he does).

[Deleted]

My wife gave up a good career at Boeing when my company relocated us 3+ years ago. The relocation wasn't just about my job though - it was our dream destination. We had a 7 year plan to move here on our dime. Since my company moved us, it was on their dime. Her career slowed done some - part of that is the economy. She is making 60% more than where we came from, but advancement at her current company is unlikely. They are just too small and her skill is a little too specialized.

So, back to your story, is where you could be relocated to a place you both want to live? Do you love your current location?

[Urban Chicago]

Carl, you've been adamant about not wanting a stay-at-home wife. Will you be able to change your mind if:

1. She gives up the idea of a PhD, thus not incurring more student debt or
2. You relocate for your job and she puts in a good effort, but really CAN'T find another job.

If neither of these will sway you, you have to give a little on the relocation, even if it means stalling your career.

For the record, I don't think it really hurts the kids to move a few times while they grow up. Some of the best people I know were Army Brats growing up.

[swamp]

DH's career takes a back seat to mine, no question. He knew that when he married me.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I put mine on hold for DH three years ago. After that it became apparent that his is going no where. So now his takes a back seat to mine.

[telephus44]

DH is more ambitious than I am. He also has much better potential for career advancement than I do.

Right before we got married, his company was bought and he was offered either a generous layoff package (12 weeks of salary plus $10K towards school, on top of unemployment) or the option to transfer to Colorado (we live in MA). Coincidentally, at the time I had a job offer for a company that I really wanted to work for.

BTW, this added a HUGE ton of stress on top of getting married.

We ended up deciding that since DH made more money, and he was really deadset on taking the transfer, that we would. And let me tell you, it was the worst move we could have made. DH always talks about it as a learning experience, and not that bad, but I seriously hated it. I managed to find work at a largely reduced salary. The additional money DH made wasn't enough to make life less miserable. As soon as we had paid stuff off and saved up a few grand, we moved back home.

If I had to do it again, I would turn it down unless the extra money DH made filled up a dumptruck and was backing into my driveway.

I will say, that part of my experience has to do with not making friends easily, not liking travel, and in general being a homebody. Depending on how you and your wife feel about it, you may not have the same feeling.

[Deleted]

At first mine took a back seat (since I didn't have one) so that DH could get his MLIS. Unfortunately he graduated into a pretty stagnant job market since a lot of librarians at retirement age chose not to retire. And now I'm in a Master's program, so now we're stuck here until I graduate plus one year so I don't have to pay back the tuition that work will reimburse me. After the baby comes he'll look for better opportunities in this area, hopefully something better at his current place. Since I'm in a degree program, my boss loves me, and I'm getting raises (due to state budget cuts, he hasn't had ANY increases in 3 years), I guess my career (still don't have one) is at the forefront right now. But I have no problem relocating for his job. So I guess you could say that whoever seems to have the best prospects/earning potential is who's career is more important. Neither one of us has a problem taking a back seat - we work to live, not live to work.

[swasat]

We are both ambitious people , heavily invested in our careers.

Fortunately, we were both done with our Masters and in fulltime jobs when we met. So we never faced back to college issues. We also never had to make many career related choices, mostly beacause we both have very flexible jobs. We are both in IT, so that gives us a lot of flexibilty in working from wherever. We have been extremely lucky that our employers are ok with telecommuting, if we needed to do that.

However, after having kids, I have slowed down my pace a bit. I need more flexibility and more free time, so I have willingly let go of few opportunities. That has also given DH the option to push ahead in his career.

So yeah, his career is ahead of mine at this point of time.

[Phoenix84]

I've relocated for a job three times times in three and a half years. I couldn't imagine dragging around a wife and kids.

[midjd]

I will probably always have greater earning potential than DH, so my job generally takes precedence. That said, we bought a house in a city an hour away from my workplace, so DH has a lot of flexibility in where he seeks work - there are at least 5 cities of 50,000 + within a 30-minute drive from our house.

Prior to our most recent move, DH quit one job to relocate with me for law school, quit his job up there to relocate back here, and quit his job at the steel mill to move to our current city. So I don't think he's opposed to relocating on my behalf But a mechanic can work pretty much anywhere. If he had a more specialized job, it would be a different discussion.

[Deleted]

You can probably file this under "reasons craftysarah is single," but I would hope that opportunities for advancement would be the determining factor rather than always defering to the partner who made more money.

When I finish my doctorate, I expect that I will need to move to wherever I can get a job. I have my preferences as to where I would go, but right out of the gate, I will probably have to take what I can get. There are a finite number of colleges and universities that would be looking for someone with my area of expertise, and only so many of them are hiring at any given time. While if I were in a relatioship I would want to support my partner's career, I have effectively limited the choices of where we could go with my career path.

[8 Bit WWBG]

You are really asking two questions: one about making marriage work with two career-minded individuals, and one about raising kids in a single environment.

I definitely agree that being able to NOT get attached to anything is a BIG advantage for the career-minded. As you said, when the offer comes, you want to be able to take it. Once you get too comfortable and settled, you lose a lot of leverage and miss out on some opportunities. Sure, you'll have to "pay your dues" with some less-desirable assignments, but that can also speed you up the ladder much faster.

I also agree with Zib -- as soon as you have kids, your wife will want to stay at home. She'll deny it, but once she gets that taste of being a SAHM, I doubt she'll ever look back. So yeah, you need to do what is necessary for you to have adequate income to support your wife and your future children.

We are friends with a couple who are both career minded. They make a LOT of money, but they also work very hard and long. They worked on their honeymoon, they probably work on vacation. At one point, wife was JUST about to start a new job for a company that had courted her big time. She was writing her own ticket. But husband, who was miserable at his current job, got a dream job opportunity, and they agreed to relocate. It took her almost a year to find something in her league, (and she loved being a SAHW for a while) but now they are back to the "ships passing in the night" kind of arrangement.

They totally could have maintained separate residences and each worked their jobs, but they decided they did not want a commuter marriage. They really had to decide how to make it work. I think in one sense it was kind of "the husbands turn" since for the last few years, he'd been working a job he hated just to get the experience for this opportunity.

It seems like you've already discussed your concerns for both sides. It is good that your wife is willing to wait on the Ph.D (not that she needs it, but thats another issue). You know she wants to raise children in one place, but life also doesn't always work like that.

[stats45]

We talked about it a lot before we moved. We decided that we wouldn't relocate just for one person unless there was exceptional and stable salary and benefits. Even then, we would probably still not relocate when we consider family and other variables. We would relocate, however, if there was some type of macroeconomic change that made it difficult for one of us to have stable, good employment to an area that was good for both of us.

It helps to be in a large metropolitan area with many potential job opportunities for both people. This way there is a greater possibility for career movement and change without having to necessarily relocate.

The actual change in salary and benefits matter as well. If we shifted from earning $250k to $500k, it would be nice, but it wouldn't really represent a qualitative change in our standard of living. We would probably need other reasons to move like tiring of the area, family moving, etc.

[Deleted]

We are friends with a couple who are both career minded. They make a LOT of money, but they also work very hard and long. They worked on their honeymoon, they probably work on vacation. At one point, wife was JUST about to start a new job for a company that had courted her big time. She was writing her own ticket. But husband, who was miserable at his current job, got a dream job opportunity, and they agreed to relocate. It took her almost a year to find something in her league, (and she loved being a SAHW for a while) but now they are back to the "ships passing in the night" kind of arrangement.


wow, I couldn't be in a relationship like that. I mean for all that, why not just be single? But if they're happy I guess that's all that matters...

[illinicheme]

We've traded off.

We met in grad school. Then boyfriend (now DH) graduated one year before I did, and took a post-doc in the same local area. When I graduated, I took a job 3000 miles away. (One of two options - both far away.) We spent six months on opposite coasts. We then got engaged and DH left the post-doc to move to be with me. He spent the following 18 months unemployed before finding a second post-doc. The next 3.5 years were stable, but we knew change was coming eventually, because DH was still looking for a permanent job. DH then landed a tenure-track faculty position back on the other coast where we originally lived. We spent another six months on opposite coasts before I found a job. We happily reunited and felt like things were finally settling down. Then I got laid off after four months. Fortunately, I found my current position very quickly.

We feel extremely fortunate to have landed good jobs within 60 miles of each other in an area of the country we enjoy. Right now, no one's job is taking precedence, though we both pay the price of long commutes (mine much longer). If push came to shove, my job might take precedence because I make far more money. But who really knows.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"wow, I couldn't be in a relationship like that. I mean for all that, why not just be single? But if they're happy I guess that's all that matters...":::...

They are happy, yes. They do get to take really nice vacations and they live very well. But apparently there are times where they don't see much of each other. I'm sure if they saved their money though, they could retire REALLY early.

I also question how solidly you can have this conversation in advance. They always say to discuss things like "would you move for a job" in advance, but the devil is in the details.

[tskeeter]

Carl, time for some serious conversations with your wife. You guys need to put together a life plan. Is your wife planning to become a SAHW at some point? If so, what's the point in a PHD? If she is going to become a SAHW, your career should probably take priority. Can your wife stand to live so far away from her family that she only sees them once or twice a year? Will you guys need/want family support as you raise your kids? (If you relocate a lot, support can be a big deal. I once bought a house around the corner from a guy I had worked with at another plant just so I would be able to call on a bit of help with DIY projects.) What is the normal progression in your career path? Can you get to a headquarters job that will eliminate the need to relocate for your next promotion? Whose career offers the largest number of opportunities in the most parts of the country?

Two career couples can make it work. I have relocated 5 times. It wasn't a problem because my wife tends to get bored with jobs after a few years. Whenever an opportunity came up for me, she was ready for a job change, so no problems for us. For other career oriented couples, it would probably be more complicated, and require a bit of trading off. Maybe you would be lucky, and career opportunities for both of you would be available in the same area, regardless of who was getting promoted.

[Deleted]

WWBG, I think it's more about feeling the other person out in the dating stage. If they seem to place a great deal of emphasis on their career and how important it is to them, that would be an indication to me about how they'd feel about moving around for someone else's.

[dragonfly7]

In our marriage, it is fairly consistently me giving up an educational or work opportunity for him. DH was a year ahead of me in school, so when he was laid off from his first job out of college, I dropped out so we could move to Texas with the intention of finishing my last year here. When he lost that job, I dropped down to taking classes part-time and changed my major so I could finish online instead of spend $400 commuting every month. This allowed me to be promoted to full-time in the customer service job I held.

I have forced him to change jobs only once, when he did Primerica full-time for seven months and made only $500 in that time. My manager had met DH and liked him, so when we had a part-time position available, I flat out asked her if he could have it, and I made him take it. I'm glad I did, because that position finally made him realize what a good educator he is and is why he is a science teacher now.

While my dream job when we married was to be a reference librarian (History major), I'm not sure that it still is. We live in a large enough metropolitan area that even if we weren't both holding our dream jobs, we could theoretically both be doing jobs we liked without having to leave the area, though we certainly move around frequently within it. Right now, I think our attachment to our church is actually having a much bigger impact on our unwillingness to relocate than any other factor.

[Regis]

"How do you make it work when you are both working and both ambitious?"

We talk about it and make a decision based on what's best for both of us in the long run. Once kids came along, we made a decision based on what's best for ALL of us in the long run. Not to sound too "high school musical"-like but we really are all in this together so we need to make sure WE win - not just one of us.

Haven't regretted any career moves we've made yet.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Jun 27, 2011 7:48:42 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

when you are both working and both ambitious?
Does one career take the back seat (less responsibilities/less promotions) so the other one can more forward? Or is it possible to make both work?

There is no easy, one-size-fits-all answer to this question ... because no two couples are alike.

For us, we decided together that our priority was our marriage and our family and spending quality time together, so I quit my job, we downsized and simplified our life, and my ambition changed from being career-focused to being family/community-focused. This was our decision, and it worked for us ... beautifully. But it was a well-considered, thoroughly discussed, long-in-coming, mutually agreeable, willing/voluntary joint decision on BOTH our parts.

The bottom line? When you become married, I think that individual goals and ambitions need to morph/evolve into family goals and decisions ~ something which often means all involved have to cooperate, compromise and sacrifice.

[hockeygrl]

There is no easy, one-size-fits-all answer to this question ... because no two couples are alike.

This

I just relocated so that DH could take a job that is more stable in a questionable economy. I was able to transfer with my current employer (luckily!) but it took 2 years of waiting for them to get it done. The only thing that made it happen that fast was the fact that I was about to have a baby and we lived 1,000 miles apart!

I am happy with my job and my paycheck, so I don't have any plans to move up because I would have to do a tour at headquarters and that would drive me crazy. Plus, it allows me to balance life and family to stay where I am.

DH has the opportunity to advance at his current employer, so hopefully we won't move again unless something phenomenal comes his way and there is an office nearby that I can transfer to.

If "phenomenal" doesn't come knocking before DS starts school, I won't move. I went to 12 different schools as a kid, and I don't want DS to have that same experience. On the one hand, it is great for expanding your horizons, on the other it makes answering the whole "Where are you from?" question kind of awkward. I want him to have roots, and we'll expand his horizons by traveling a lot.

[sil]

My boss went a bit quiet then later towards the end of the lunch said: if I were you, I wouldn't get to attach to the area. The good thing about you and X (a friend of mine that just relocated to Vermont) you are both willing to relocate.

You have the choice to refuse to relocate for a promotion but
a) don't expect to get ask again or soon afterwards
b) might take you awhile within your zone to get promoted (I mention that I work for a company with alot of lifers)
***********************************************************************************************************************************

Am I the only one who thinks your boss was a bit out of line here? I understand that depending on your company / line of work, ability to relocate can be a huge determining factor in promotions, but I think she was overstepping to imply that your wife's career might limit your growth potential.

I don't think the issue is your wife's career. Although I don't know you, I suspect the issue isn't that both of you have high ambition either. In fact, it seems to me that you don't currently have an issue. But if one arises, the issue will most likely be your employer.

[Deleted]

I think cawiau's supervisor was referencing cawiau and "coworker Bill" not cawiau and his wife.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...we talk, talk, and then talk some more... and when/if one of us takes a different role to allow the other to grow, we do that...


<<<
c) She is ok with relocating until we have kids and they are school age. She feels by then I need to either find position at the corporate office (will still require travel but my home base will remain upstate so more stable) or find a more stable job. My wife likes the idea of raising kids in one spot from kindergaten till high school graduation (feels it stable for them, familiar, etc). Since that is not for another 8 years (thinking 3 years till first child and another 5 till they start PreK) we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
>>>

...I would highly recommend you two to talk, talk, and talk some more about point c... imo...

[Deleted]

I'll try to answer everyone so bear with me.

- I don't think my boss was out of line, more so she was looking out for me. It is a fact that with my company, your willingness to relocate gives you a better advantage over the others.

- My wife has no desire to be a stay at home wife unless she can maintain her current lifestyle. In her words: she likes nice things. For her to stay home it would require us to do some serious cut backs. Also I have been quite vocal about how I feel about her student lans and I will not be paying them.

BUT
- yes if we move because of me and after seriously trying she still can't find a job, we will be ok with her staying home (took her 4 Months last year to find her current job). Also that is why we are hoping that I stay at my current location for another 2-3 years because per our plan by then we would be able to live off 1 income.

[Deleted]

We moved here because of me; she was already working for the NY department of Health. But she was like: you pick, it's your turn. I guesss since we moved to the Capital District for her masters, it was only fair we moved this time for me.

- it'ss not an issue currently but just worried about 2-3 years down the road, or next. Ex: she is currently working on a major research, she will present it in July and publish it next year. From what I understand, in her field that means a lot to get your name attach to a big research with a major university (Cornell) and will boost her career. But let's say next year my boss says, change of plans, we need you in Connecticut: what do we do?

- We are both ambitious and passionate about what we do: but we don't want oone's carrer to launch at the detriment of the others.

And yes we talked about it some more.

- she is not against moving with kids but she would prefer not having too. So it would have to be a significant opportunity to convince her that a move is worth it after the non-existent kids start school.

[Deleted]

- yes getting a job at Headquarters is a possibility that we will definitely look into.

- My wife has no issues before far way from family and actually prefers it that way. I am the one with seperation issues and would love to be able to move back to NJ in the future. Another reason why I like my current location: I am only an hour and half away from my family and been visiting more often and loving it.


So how do you make those decisions?
- if it's income: mine would be the best bet since wages wise I would have greater opportunities to increase it (goal is for me to make in 4 years what we make combine now)
- passion? Love of the job? For that my wife would win. She loves, I mean loves what she does. For mr it's more about the income and promotions (I am not ashame yo admmit it, I am not in love with my job but it has the potential to pay very well)
- what is best for the family? How do you come to that? Wouldn't someone still end up getting the short end of the stick?