The Neighbor Blues - part deux

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

My elderly neighbor seems to be doing ok - other than she expects that we're going to go to dinner each Friday night. Last week, a cowork and I had a late 2 margarita lunch and dinner just wasn't happening that night - so she suggested Sat. instead. Not a bad idea, since I spent all of Sat. cleaning and needed to get out.

Apparently her daughter is looking at assisted living homes. My friend is really on the fence about this in that it will cost her more than her current situation - however, she has no idea how much more. Right now, she's in as good a situation as she could be in - for being elderly and partially incapacitated. There is a grocery store right across the street and she is surrounded by people who will look out for her.....with one notable exception - her daughter.

We discussed this Sat. night. Her daughter lives 30 miles down the road. It'd be nothing for her to take off one evening - or one weekend day - a couple times/month to make sure that her mother has what she needs. Instead, the daughter dumps total responsiblity onto her mother's friends and I suspect that her friends are getting their fill of this. I know I am.

To top things off, one of her best friends had a bad fall recently and had to call 911 to get help to stand back up. This friend did a lot of my neighbor's shopping for her (the shopping that I didn't do).

Now that I'm mobile again, I have no problem picking up her groceries for her. However, I'm out of town regularly and it's soon to be more frequently since it looks like I'll be able to work from TD's one month out of 3. So I just can't do it all and I want to know how do you get the daughter to step up to the plate? Ironically, I mentioned this at dinner the other night and my neighbor said that I wasn't the first of her friends to mention this.

The way things are now, my neighbor *could* continue to live by herself. If her daughter took some (not all) of the burden off my neighbor's friends (including me) and paid for a Life Alert subscription, it should be doable and put off moving to a more expensive assisted living situation for another year or two.

[Bluerobin]

mich, BTDT recently with elderly relatives. Best thing we found was in home help mates. There are agencies that provide in home care, which in many cases is cheaper than assisted living. This all depends on the level of care. Suggest this to the neighbor and the daughter.

[NancysSummerSip]

Mich, I think a "granny nanny" situation for this woman might be the best thing. Someone who comes in regularly a few times a week, to help with basic chores. As Blue pointed out, cheaper than assisted living, and more dignified for your neighbor, who gets to maintain some semblance of her independence, while getting the help and attention she needs.

As far as getting the daughter to pay attention, there's no means on earth to force the issue. Either she's ready, she isn't or she will have to do so by virtue of her mother having a very serious accident in the home. The Life Alert is a nice addition, but it cannot take her to the doctor or grocery shopping. A home helper can do that.

You're a sweetie for doing what you've done, but you can only do what you can do.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Jun 27, 2011 6:55:11 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

mich, BTDT recently with elderly relatives. Best thing we found was in home help mates. There are agencies that provide in home care, which in many cases is cheaper than assisted living. This all depends on the level of care. Suggest this to the neighbor and the daughter.

My ex MIL had an agency like that put into place for her. They came to her home a couple times a week (or as needed) to do her grocery shopping, some cleaning and laundry and mowing/shoveling as needed. They also delivered prepared meals that she could keep in her fridge and just heat up for herself as needed if she wasn't up to cooking. She also had a Life Alert monitor she wore in case of emergencies.

It worked out well in her situation (and was cheaper) until she finally became too frail to be on her own and was moved into a nursing home.

[NancysSummerSip]

Mich, the fact that you bring this up has me thinking.....
My mother recently lost her driving privileges. She found out with virtually no notice, so we had to scramble to find alternative transportation. I wonder why the Baby Boomer population has not thought more about getting their act together in regards to this situation, as well as the possibility of future elder care for ourselves.

You can have a will, and a medical directive (for use in the event of incapacitation) and a DNR order. Why not an elder care directive, and a driving directive as well? A contract/agreement of some type that says something along the lines of promising to take a driving test/course at a certain age, to check your reflexes, and have an annual physical. When you are getting to the point that your driving skills are becoming a hazard, get the ball rolling to give up the keys and get your alternative plans into place.

Same kind of thing for an elder care plan. An annual physical to keep an eye on motor skills, including an neurological profile to test memory. When failure begins to set in, get the alternative plans going.

Some of what I've said will probably sound expensive, impossible and downright mean to people who think nothing will ever happen to them. But if you are in Mich's position, watching an elderly person go downhill, with family around who don't care, it might make sense.
It also makes sense to have a written directive if you have NO kids, as is the case with me. No family will be making my decisions.
And having plans in advance makes more sense, it would seem, than finding yourself in my mother's position, cut off from four wheels suddenly and scrambling for rides to the doctor, grocery store, etc.

[thyme4change]

The way things are now, my neighbor *could* continue to live by herself.

She is only going to get older, and the chances something goes wrong are pretty high. If the daughter is willing to put her in a facility that is close to her house and be able spend more time with her - I wouldn't halt that process. If it costs a little more, well, what is she doing - saving her money to buy her way into heaven? Maybe you should evaluate the cost vs. having paid home help rather than how she has been living up to this point. It isn't that she hasn't been doing okay - the real question is how long will she continue to do okay? One fall, one stroke, and she will have to move anyway. That could be happening as we speak, or it might happen tomorrow. I do not understand the obsession with staying in one's home, even when you know you aren't able to handle it all yourself. She needs to be responsible and get herself to a place that is designed to help her - not making all her friends do all her chores for her. It isn't their responsibility, and it isn't her daughter's responsibility either.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

If the daughter is willing to put her in a facility that is close to her house and be able spend more time with her - I wouldn't halt that process.

That's the problem.....it's not. The facility is still in Lexington and the daughter still lives in Berea. Not only that, my friend simply does not have the $2000+/mo that living in this facility will cost - just for the apartment. Right now, her living costs are about 1/3 that.

Will this need to happen sometime? Undoubtedly. But her doctor says that other than her COPD and her RA, she's in pretty good shape. I think she should live independently as long as she can - to preserve capital so when she cannot, she'll have the money to move into an assisted living facilty.

The way I read the situation, if her daughter would step up to the plate a couple times/month and help, and pay for a subscription to Life Alert, there would be no need of having a huge outlay of funds right now for an assisted facility. Hell, according to my neighbor, you need to pay them $2000 up front to even apply there!

[thyme4change]

How much is a Life Alert subscription? Can't your friend pay it?

[Bluerobin]

Mich when all assets are exhausted, the house is sold to pay for the home, etc then, the lady would become a ward of the state and go to a home, which would take her SS check and bill Welfare for the balance. Personal Care homes do not qualify for Welfare.

[thyme4change]

Hell, according to my neighbor, you need to pay them $2000 up front to even apply there!

I'm guessing there is another facility.

Plus - how much is your neighbor's house worth (or how much equity does she have.) If she has illiquid assets, it is costing her more than you calculate to live.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Neighbor does not have a house, she lives in the apartment under me. That's why I know approximately what her living expenses are since they're about the same as mine.

I don't know how much a Life Alert subscription costs. I googled it, but couldn't find any prices without having them contact me.

[Colleenz]

Virgil wishes his neighbor was a snow leopard

[thyme4change]

LifeLink is about $100 start-up plus $40-something per month.

LifeAlert is less to start-up but more per month. I believe it is still only $50-ish per month.

So, I would hope this lady would do that.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really solve the problem that she isn't actually living independently - she doesn't get her own groceries and needs people to help her. I still believe she is past the point where she should be living alone, or at least is speeding up on that point like a bus with a bomb set to go off if the speed drops below 55 and Sandra Bullock is at the wheel.

[Bob Ross]

The problem with befriending the elderly is that they latch onto you like a vampire, and pretty soon you're helping them move, giving them sponge baths, and paying their medical bills.

When I'm old, I plan to do the opposite and keep people away. Away from my lawn, especially.

[thyme4change]

Bob - I hear cats never let you down.

[Chocolate Lover]

But you have to have LOTS of cats ;D

[Bob Ross]

I have 2 cats. I've tried training them to be my evil army of the night, but they prefer to attack my feet from under the bed.

[thyme4change]

Are they snow lepoards?

[bring in the new year]

As someone who has just been dropped into a very similar situation, you might want to talk to the daughter before you castigate her.

The move into assisted living may be an ongoing fight and you're only hearing one side of it.

As I mentioned in a previous question, I'm helping someone who has had to go into assisted living recently. We (she and I and her brother) have not dealt with each other for five years because her brother and I tried to move her into assisted living five years ago. Yes, it's expensive. But when you know that the person is not really living independently and you know that every other week there's a fall or a crisis, sometimes assisted living is best.

The lifealert stuff may be wonderful but it's not going to take them to the store. Or their doctor's appointments or double check that they're not over or undermedicating themselves.

You're getting worn out by the neighbor's requests - think of the fact that before she wore you out she was using her daughter. Think about the fact that unfortunately it's not in her own best interest to tell you anything her daughter might be doing for her.

I like the idea of the granny nanny. Because she's not really living independently now (as thyme pointed out) and a little extra help might go a long way. But she may be resistant to paying for it and why shouldn't she be? Right now she's getting most of that extra help for free.

I understand she's concerned about preserving assets. But situations like this turn bad quickly and then you don't have a choice of homes. You're stuck with whatever is open and the good ones have waiting lists.

[Bluerobin]

She sounds closer to needing a nursing home, rather than an assisted living home. Get her home help in the interim if she is mentally competent. Lots cheaper than assisted living.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

She sounds closer to needing a nursing home, rather than an assisted living home. Get her home help in the interim if she is mentally competent.

She does not need a nursing home. She's perfectly capable of getting herself up and dressed. She takes herself out to lunch and last week escorted a friend who was visiting around the city. There is nothing wrong with her brain. When the weather's good, there's nothing to stop her from going to the grocery store, etc.

You're getting worn out by the neighbor's requests - think of the fact that before she wore you out she was using her daughter. Think about the fact that unfortunately it's not in her own best interest to tell you anything her daughter might be doing for her.

I don't think that this is the case. My neighbor's lived below me for about 6 years now and has always lived in this city. Her daughter's always lived in Berea - or has since she married some 30+ years ago. Up until last year, my neighbor was employed (where I work). As long as I have lived here, her daughter has only very rarely visited her - I would say less than once/month.

FWIW, she does tell me what her daugher does when she visits. I think that the last time she was here, she helped her clean out her closet and helped her clear some of the clutter up. I'm not negating this sort of help, it is invaluable.

She retired from her job because she was the dorm director at one of the dorms on campus (actually, the dorm where the football/basketball players live). By being dorm director, she was continually exposed to whatever bugs the kids would bring in. For most people, it would give us a lousy cold - but for her, since she has COPD, her lungs don't clear things away as well and she'd wind up with pneumonia. Her doctor really, REALLY pushed for this - and while I understand his logic, I think that while she was working she had a purpose in life. She had a bad bout of pneumonia (which is when I picked up her grocery shopping - but I"m not doing it now) the winter before last and that spurred her on to retire.

[thyme4change]

There is nothing wrong with her brain

Unfortunately, there are two parts that have to be functioning to live on your own. Brain and body.

[Bluerobin]

Mich, than what she needs is a help mate type of arrangement. Personal Care is really expensive. If she is mentally competent, an agency will do. Good luck. I have gone through this with several rels.