debka reports Turkey/Israeli reconciliation

[deziloooooo]

This is a very interesting article..whether true or not , I really don't know but names, dates, places are mentioned so I see it actually having been done..

If possible true, I suggest that those here on these boards who have putting their idea's out of no way peace to ever come to the region, that Hamas will never be accepted as a partner by the Israeli's, that the current POTUS is completely at odds with the PM of Israel and on and on..just might want to read the article carefully, just possible, just saying, just possible, some of those ideas might not hold water.

Personally, I feel that both sides want a settlement..The Palestinians a Viable state for their people, the Israeli's just as secure a area as they can get, and a end of being over seers of the Palestinians, that role has gotten old, and distracts from their own business..also they are worried of being isolated with only the US as their allie..Turkeys friendship is important, to see Assad gone would be good, and if the POTUS can help in accomplishing all of this, then why not try and see what comes about.

It indicates that there are US/Turkey agreements that Assad's reign may be coming to a end..with in six months possible. it also indicates that there may be military actions between Turkey and Syrian forces..that US and Israeli forces might be involved or at least interesting parties to this happening..no mention if Iran is brought into this scenario, I don't see them just sitting on the side lines, though to get involved directly, might give the excuse for their Nuc facilities being able to be attacked as a strtegic happening of their bein gactive in such a conflict, just my own thinking here by the way, just came to me.

Also, Turkey is given a role in trying to be a broker for the Palestinian side, both Fatah, [Abbas as leader ] AND Hamas ..believing they can get Hamas to mitigate their rhetoric against Israel and both Natanayahu and Lieberman, the anti Arab/Palestinian cabinet member, both realizing and possible accepting the fact that Hamas will have to be brought into the equation, not be kept out of the discussions.
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www.debka.com/article/21061/
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Sat June 25, 2011Breaking News

A US-Turkey Axis Overrides the Arab Revolt

Turkey renews strategic ties with Israel ahead of showdown with Syria

DEBKAfile Special Report June 25, 2011, 9:04 AM (GMT+02:00)

"Turkey has decided to restore military and intelligence collaboration in the eastern Mediterranean with Israel as Ankara heads for a military showdown with Syria, according to debkafile's exclusive military sources.

The deal worked out between President Barack Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu also gives Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan a role in Israeli-Palestinian diplomacy and a chance to bring Hamas into the process.

The deal was discussed in a telephone conversation that took place between the US president and Turkish prime minister last Tuesday June 21, hours after Assad's hardnosed speech at Damascus University.

The last ends were tied up when Israel's Deputy Prime Minister, Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Yaalon, visited Ankara secretly last week and met Erdogan and Fidan Hakan, the head of Turkish intelligence MIT.

Obama and Erdogan agreed that Bashar Assad's reign was over although both their intelligence agencies gave him another four to six months to hang on. To hasten his end, they decided on a two-part campaign: the US and Europe would step up sanctions on Syria and Turkey would raise the military heat.

This decision prompted US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to comment for the first time on a possible Turkish-Syrian military clash: "…we're going to see an escalation of conflict in the area," she said.

Saturday, June 25, Turkey began setting up a big new camp to accommodate a further influx of 12,000 to 15,000 Syrian refugees at Apaydin 10 kilometers from the border, on the opposite side of which Syria's crack 4th Division is massing tanks under the command of Syrian Republican Guard commander Gen. Maher Assad, the president's brother.

The numbers of refugees continued to swell after soldiers again opened fire on tens of thousands of demonstrators who poured into the streets after Friday prayers, killing at least nineteen.

As Syrian-Turkish military tensions continue to escalate, Ankara saw the necessity of coordinating its air and naval operations with the United States and Israel in case the Syrian ruler responded to a border flare-up by launching surface missiles against Turkish military targets and US bases in Turkey.

Obama urged Erdogan and Hakan to get together with the Israeli minister Yaalon to work things out, a move that would call up the old close strategic bonds between Turkey and Israel before they the rupture over Israel's 2009 Cast Lead operation against Hamas in Gaza, the Turkish flotilla episode of May 2010 and other incidents.

Calling off Turkey's critical participation in the next big flotilla scheduled for this month to breaking Israel's Gaza blockade indicated the ice was melting.

For the sake of opening a new chapter between Jerusalem and Turkey, our sources disclose that Netanyahu gave in to Obama's request to give Erdogan another chance to promote Israeli-Palestinian diplomacy – this time by bringing Hamas aboard.

The Turkish prime minister believes he has a fair chance of altering Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal's inflexible resistance to recognizing Israel.

After meeting Meshaal's rival, Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas, in Ankara Friday, June 24, Erdogan said "Turkey would mobilize support to help the Palestinians achieve recognition and form their own state."
Abbas replied: "There will be no turning back from the road to reconciliation [with Hamas]."

Abbas and Meshaal were both in the Turkish capital at the same time, although they denied meeting.

Confirmation that the Turkish prime minister had returned to the role of Israel-Palestinian broker, which he resigned in anger after Israel's Gaza operation in 2009, came from Jerusalem: Thursday, June 23, Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon told a visiting group of Turkish journalists:

"We also accept and respect the fact that Turkey is a regional power with a great historic role."

As to Ankara's bid to broker reconciliation between Abbas and Meshaal and get them to sign a power-sharing accord, the Israeli official commented:

"It is also in our interests that the Palestinians have unity. We know once they sign, they sign for everybody and we don't have to worry about this."

debkafile's political sources:

Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman have obviously recognized that if the price for Israel-Turkish reconciliation and a return strategic collaboration is accepting Hamas' presence on the Palestinian side of the negotiating table, it is worth paying.

They have apparently conceded the long-held principle not to deal with a Palestinian terrorist group dedicated to Israel's destruction without seeking cabinet endorsement."

[mmhmm]

Very interesting, dezi, and worth some research and follow-up. Turkey is definitely a growing power in the region and cannot be ignored. Thanks for posting this!

[marshabar1]

Maybe Turkey and Saudi Arabia have decided to take Z. Brzezinski's advice. Turkey is a long time strong ally and I am glad if they are veering away from the Islamist path they seemed headed toward.

Turkey, a vital U.S. ally, is often overlooked. Terrorist attacks there have backfired against al Qaida, but this news has been overshadowed by events in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan. Troubled states upstage those merely having some trouble.
This month Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his ruling Islamist Justice and Development Party (AKP) scored a significant parliamentary election victory from the people. The AKP is a religion-based party, and elsewhere in the Islamic world such a victory could spell trouble. In Turkey, however, this could strengthen our bilateral alliance -- as long as Washington is smart.

The selection in 2007 of former foreign minister and practicing Moslem Abdullah Gul as the president by the parliament led to fears of Islamic extremism. The president's wife Hayrunnisa proudly wears the Islamic headscarf, formally banned in public buildings, and has become an icon for the rise of religion in secular modern Turkey.

Erdogan led the AKP to a significant victory in parliamentary elections in the summer of 2007. Initial rejection of his foreign minister for the presidency was the principal spur to go to the people.

Since the successful revolution in the 1920s led by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Turkey has been constitutionally strictly secular. The army serves as watchdog to keep religion at bay. Four times in the past half-century, the generals have acted. At times, military intervention has been bloody. Top officers boycotted the installation of the new president.

Many outside observers, especially in Europe and the U.S., fixate on signs of Islamic extremism in Turkey. Terrorist efforts in Europe since 9/11 have achieved decidedly mixed results but constantly reinforce such anxiety.

Turkey's relative isolation within Europe adds to concern. The European Union has turned Turkey's application for membership into seemingly endless agony. No doubt concern about Islamic extremism contributes to caution. However, more general Euro-prejudice undeniably is involved. Condescension combined with inertia is reflected in the very slow motion of Brussels Eurocrats.

In fact, Turkish developments overall have been reassuring. The people remain committed to representative government. To date, terrorist acts in Turkey have boomeranged, with considerable hostility toward those carrying out such criminal acts. There is anxiety about military intervention, but the AKP has been moderate so far, operating carefully to preclude a uniformed crackdown.

www.scrippsnews.com/node/62478

[Deleted]

also they are worried of being isolated with only the US as their allie..

My guess deziloooooo is that they are worried that the U.S. won't back them at all. I would assume that they don't trust President Obama that much after his comment. It would worry me too.

[marshabar1]

I'd think Turkey would be very glad they aren't hooked to that Euro train! They avoided DISASTER unlike Greece which was spoon fed a socialist dream that exploded in their faces.

Turkey was able to avoid the damage that could have been inflicted by the global economic crisis of 2008 and 2009. Given the developments in the Turkish economy from 2002 until now, we can see that it is performing particularly well for the following five reasons:


Turkish currency reforms: In 2002 Turkey successfully eliminated six digits from the Turkish currency. Despite the popular inclination to still refer to millions, Turkey managed to position the Turkish lira (TL) as a strong rival against the US dollar and the euro in many aspects. EU and world economists watched this move by Turkey with interest. As a matter of fact, the number of countries that have been successful in their attempts to remove zeroes from their respective currencies is very small.

TOKİ-led acceleration: The second important development in the Turkish economy came with the housing projects of the Housing Development Administration of Turkey (TOKİ). More than 1 million people bought houses from these projects, undertaken by TOKİ in cooperation with private construction companies. This not only gave a good boost to Turkish construction companies, but also ensured that people could acquire new and stronger houses and that the proliferation of shanty houses could be curtailed at least to some extent. The TOKİ projects featured a good implementation of “win/win” system.

www.todayszaman.com/news-230707-turkish-economy-to-continue-growing-in-2011.html

[deziloooooo]

Jun 25, 2011 16:49:25 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

also they are worried of being isolated with only the US as their allie..

My guess deziloooooo is that they are worried that the U.S. won't back them at all. I would assume that they don't trust President Obama that much after his comment. It would worry me too.

These are very in tuned people..besides being warriors..they are also very astute politicians. They know they have great support in Congress and with the media, and the lobbiest..and so far, the support of the American people. They know the US will be with them in the long run.

That they have a POTUS who is not just satisfied with the status quo is something different, what they are not use to, it possible gets under their skin.

The current POTUS is not allowing them to dictate to us , when it also affects US foreign policy, that probably bugs them too.

We have as big a stake in this region as they do..and with the "Arab Spring ' there are new dangers , new happenings, new everything, that are there now that were not there before.

When Mubarak was in power, Gaddafi was in complete control, Syria was what it was..and with the rise of Iran , Hezballah becoming the power in Lebonon, we are involved here, plus our relations with the Saudis right now are not the best..so to be pushed to the table, and with Turkey now not as antagonistic as they were starting in 2009+, because of the actions in Gaza, then the flotilla might be a way out of this dead end they are in now.

If Turkey can become the intermediary here, looking out for the Palestinian interests, and semi trusted by the parties, both Fatah AND Hamas..we , the US, would never be that trusted because of our relationships with Israel, why not give it a try...

To listen to a few here, a few but all with very loud and incessant remarks, all along the same vein, one gets the feeling that Obama is a idiot..he is not, and in foreign policy..it seems he is very intuitive in what he does..

One of the fears because he never served in the Military is he would never take steps in using force if needed..now he is getting criticized as being to war like..like make up your mind already.



These decisions are not always military ones deciding what ever, there are global political decisions involving allies, foes, major powers sitting on the side lines but all with a stake in things, many times with alliances and personal agendas that involve those we are contemplating action against.

Thats when the man in the chair has to decide..not a easy chair to sit in, and so far, over all, didn't say perfect..he's doing ok.

IMHO of course.

[djAdvocate]

dezil- can you tell me anything about DEBKA? i have never heard of them prior to this thread.

[Deleted]

To listen to a few here, a few but all with very loud and incessant remarks, all along the same vein, one gets the feeling that Obama is a idiot..he is not, and in foreign policy..it seems he is very intuitive in what he does..

Sorry Deziloooooo, we won't agree on this one. I'm one of the one's that think he's a fool. As a matter of fact me calling him a fool would be the highest compliment that I would be willing to give him.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 25, 2011 19:24:13 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

To listen to a few here, a few but all with very loud and incessant remarks, all along the same vein, one gets the feeling that Obama is a idiot..he is not, and in foreign policy..it seems he is very intuitive in what he does..

Sorry Deziloooooo, we won't agree on this one. I'm one of the one's that think he's a fool. As a matter of fact me calling him a fool would be the highest compliment that I would be willing to give him.

that sort of flattery goes over well with the ladies, i bet.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 25, 2011 19:24:13 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

To listen to a few here, a few but all with very loud and incessant remarks, all along the same vein, one gets the feeling that Obama is a idiot..he is not, and in foreign policy..it seems he is very intuitive in what he does..

Sorry Deziloooooo, we won't agree on this one. I'm one of the one's that think he's a fool. As a matter of fact me calling him a fool would be the highest compliment that I would be willing to give him.

To disagree with him, all politicals, hell on all of his/their ideas if one wants to , your/ my privilege, however, I don't have the time or inclination to that on any and all all the time.

Of the politicals..disagree with them fine, also understanding that there is information and consequences I have as you too , no idea about but to think they are fools .., in my feeling to think that , the only one that would be the fool would be me, or others who felt the same.

I like the fluff at times we have here..it's amusing and occasionally it's quite funny, and then at times it's so boring and old too..especially with the ones who just have no originality and just continue with the same old, same old, you see a NIC and you just know the same words will follow, the same sentiment, and then the same friends if one wants to call it, just chime in wioth the same support of , even though so many times they have no clue as to what they are agreeing to.
I have been told very, very recently by one I respect for their honesty and down eathyness toward happenings here, these types are known by many andf ignored, usually no comments made because they just don't wantt o get involved , as soon a sone does , inveratbly they seem to come under some kind of attack by the group, just don't need or want that.

I hope so , as far as those thoughts, but actually, I feel most of those types have given up in disgust and moved on , leaving what we have here now as the norm, except for a few..IMHO o course.

So I'll participate in the fluff..when in the mood..though have been cautioned that for a few , if I do so and possible act against a few particular ones here, while they have no compulsion doing so them selves, if done to them , then it seems they then take um bridge, and go crying to momma complaining about being picked on and disrespected..

Glad to see you are not of that "ilk ", think one used that word once or twice..kinda like the sound of that..bnot a word most of us would use in normal conversation.

As far as your feelings on the man..no problem, I respect your feelings, it doesn't bother me, I KNOW he is many things, good and possible wanting in others, who isn't , but a fool, lets say we agree to disagree on that one, a fool , far from it, again, IMHO of course

[deziloooooo]

Jun 25, 2011 18:16:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

dezil- can you tell me anything about DEBKA? i have never heard of them prior to this thread.

djiungrot, I hadn't heard of them before coming here, one of the participants here turned me on to them..

As you can see they are very right leaning, hawkish..in views, it' says in Wicki , Israel intelligence gives them only a 10 % shot of being accurate inh their thought pieces..which from a intelligence standpoint, such a low rating , I have to wonder what intelligence source would like to admit to their accuracy at times, have to think and say,mmmmm, velly interesting..

however, I find their articles of what may be coming, very accurate and a form of therir suggestions quite accurate, and it seems a form of their suggestions, with in a short time, coming true in is entirety or close enough that it should be considered.

I have posted many times these are thought pieces as are many of alkazzerer articles..there is a agenda in both of them, but it doesn't mean one shouldn't read them and consider their articles, IMHO of course...

I didn't bother posting their thoughts on the incursones by the Palastinian youth on the borders of Israel the last few weeks , their feeling from what i could get , interlocking fire by automatic MG would have been possible the right approach to those actions..

FPF I got was being inferred so I felt a bit much so just ignored their article, and ideas there..have done so in other situations too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com

another view of their offerings...

www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/10/47325

[marshabar1]

Jun 25, 2011 19:24:13 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

To listen to a few here, a few but all with very loud and incessant remarks, all along the same vein, one gets the feeling that Obama is a idiot..he is not, and in foreign policy..it seems he is very intuitive in what he does..

Sorry Deziloooooo, we won't agree on this one. I'm one of the one's that think he's a fool. As a matter of fact me calling him a fool would be the highest compliment that I would be willing to give him.

I'll agree with you, Tex. Bad timing, thin skin, politics above everything, ideologue, bad tempered. Oh well, at least people have got his measure now. Post turtle.