Church ramps up fight against legislation

[ugonow]

that allows aiding death for suffering terminal patients----news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20110615/cm_thenation/161478

[reasonfreedom]

That is because the Catholic Church believes in pain, a lot of pain. Believe me, I had to suffer 16 years of going to a catholic church.

[ugonow]

I don't know why a lobby group from a small sovereign state in Italy has so much influence in our politics ..

[floridayankee]

Jun 21, 2011 14:39:32 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

That is because the Catholic Church believes in pain, a lot of pain. Believe me, I had to suffer 16 years of going to a catholic church.

Are you sure it was a catholic church? Maybe you got one of "them" priests?

Mom dragged us kids with her to church every week and the only thing I felt was boredom.

[reasonfreedom]

Jun 21, 2011 15:04:05 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Jun 21, 2011 14:39:32 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

That is because the Catholic Church believes in pain, a lot of pain. Believe me, I had to suffer 16 years of going to a catholic church.

Are you sure it was a catholic church? Maybe you got one of "them" priests?

Mom dragged us kids with her to church every week and the only thing I felt was boredom.

Boredom is what turned into pain and the repetition. Kind of like fibromyalgia when you sit too long it starts to hurt really bad. That and the lack of open-mindedness in the way of my church at least. They didn't take to questioning certain lessons, they either repeated the same reasoning or that God works in mysterious ways.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 21, 2011 14:39:32 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

That is because the Catholic Church believes in pain, a lot of pain. Believe me, I had to suffer 16 years of going to a catholic church.

You "had to"? Gun to the head, huh?

Sorry, but "had to" is one of my pet peeves. It's like nails on a chalk board to me.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 21, 2011 15:13:55 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

Jun 21, 2011 15:04:05 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Are you sure it was a catholic church? Maybe you got one of "them" priests?

Mom dragged us kids with her to church every week and the only thing I felt was boredom.

Boredom is what turned into pain and the repetition. Kind of like fibromyalgia when you sit too long it starts to hurt really bad. That and the lack of open-mindedness in the way of my church at least. They didn't take to questioning certain lessons, they either repeated the same reasoning or that God works in mysterious ways.

I'm a Christian, so I'm simply a believer that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever beleives in Him shall not die, but have eternal life".

I'm not "open minded" about other ways to God and Heaven in the same way that I'm not "open minded" about where the exits are in a fire. I'm not going to sit here and smile and nod while someone says, "I like this door, it's pretty". I'm going to tell them that door leads nowhere and if you don't go to the fire exit over there, you're gonna burn.

Jesus is the way.

I'm way past the point of mere faith. You get to a place in life where the Holy Spirit dwelling in you gives you a sense of true knowledge. I know this is the truth. I don't "believe it". I don't have "faith" in God. I know God. I commune with God. I hear the voice of God. (It's true- but I like saying it because I know some people absolutely freak out at the mere mention that possibly-- just maybe-- God speaks to us). No, I don't hear a voice (compete with reverb) in an audible sense. But I hear Him speak into my life. As long as what I'm hearing lines up with the Word-- I'm good to go.

Anyway-- not to get off on this topic again. I just hate the thought that anyone could be "open minded" if it means sitting idly by, or even approving of a deadly lie.

[thyme4change]

Sorry, but "had to" is one of my pet peeves. It's like nails on a chalk board to me.

Yet, if your children get out of line, you smack them. I guess they don't "have to" obey you - they choose to because they don't care to be hit.

[chiver78]

Jun 21, 2011 16:12:33 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 21, 2011 14:39:32 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

That is because the Catholic Church believes in pain, a lot of pain. Believe me, I had to suffer 16 years of going to a catholic church.

You "had to"? Gun to the head, huh?

Sorry, but "had to" is one of my pet peeves. It's like nails on a chalk board to me.

yes, had to. I'm with reasonfreedom here. I got dragged out of bed for the 7AM mass every Sunday morning, with Dad. it wasn't until 4 years later when my kid sis caught up in age and apparently did something wrong in church one week, that I got to stop going - if she didn't have to go, I sure as hell wasn't going either!

I think it takes a lot of chutzpah for the Catholic group to call themselves "To Live Each Day with Dignity" when their entire focus is to remove the dignity from the daily lives of terminal patients by removing their say in how their pain is managed, and ultimately in how long they choose to deal with the pain.

[Deleted]

I can so see Paul telling his son he doesn't really have to do anything Paul says...

[swamp]

Jun 21, 2011 16:12:33 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 21, 2011 14:39:32 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

That is because the Catholic Church believes in pain, a lot of pain. Believe me, I had to suffer 16 years of going to a catholic church.

You "had to"? Gun to the head, huh?

Sorry, but "had to" is one of my pet peeves. It's like nails on a chalk board to me.

I don't know how you were raised, but my parents said "My house, my rules." I also raise my kids the same way.

[Mkitty is pro kitty]

I can so see Paul telling his son he doesn't really have to do anything Paul says...

Isn't that how a libertarian house should be run? Isn't it all about fre--- liberty? Also, "Remember to go work at the factory after Kindergarten, rent's due in a week and you still owe me money for the hospital bill when you were born." I mean who wants a bunch of freeloaders?

[Deleted]

I don't freak out at the idea you hear voices Paul, it just serves as further confirmation...

Honestly though, i sometimes have a hard time reconciling your professed comittment to your religious tenants, with your consistent espousing of words and actions that are diametrically opposed to WWJD...

[shelby]

"Honestly though, i sometimes have a hard time reconciling your professed comittment to your religious tenants, with your consistent espousing of words and actions that are diametrically opposed to WWJD..."

Ahh you are so not alone...he doesn't have to DO anything to be christian he just has to say he looves jebus and good to go.

[handyman2]

I have a living will that states if I am beyond recovery do not prolong life by artificial means. Let nature take it's course. That means do not use medication or machines to prolong the inevitable.
However I do not want someone to do anything to speed up the process. I believe that is wrong and risky. I am not sure many doctors would go along with that either. If I am not mistaken it is against their oath.

[chiver78]

Jun 21, 2011 20:38:48 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

However I do not want someone to do anything to speed up the process. I believe that is wrong and risky. I am not sure many doctors would go along with that either. If I am not mistaken it is against their oath.

the oath is essentially "do no harm". IMHO, it is harmful to a patient to prolong their life unnaturally. it is also my opinion that if a patient with no hope of recovery is at peace and wishes to check out, that the patient shouldn't be prevented from doing so.

what you say here, that you don't want someone to speed up the process - that's your feeling for yourself. if you have that in your living will, your wishes would absolutely be honored as well as your DNR (I'm assuming that's how your living will is written...?) because they are documented wishes for your own medical treatment.