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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 20:09:25 GMT -5
www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/20/20110620arizona-baby-kicking-death-sentence.htmlArizona man gets 10 years in kicking death of unborn baby Jun. 20, 2011 03:04 PM Associated Press FORT DEFIANCE. - A northeastern Arizona man has been sentenced to 10 years in prison in the kicking death of his unborn baby. The U.S. Attorney's Office said Monday that 28-year-old Fernando Woody of Fort Defiance received his sentence Thursday. Woody pleaded guilty in March to voluntary manslaughter after admitting that he kicked the mother of his child in the stomach while wearing boots. Her unborn child suffered a skull fracture and other injuries, and died in utero. Prosecutors say Woody knew she was pregnant when he kicked her. *****Interesting. This is all I can find. Nothing says it was for DV assault.. it was for killing the BABY before it was born*****
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 20:10:57 GMT -5
Another article says voluntary manslaughter was the plea agreement.. interesting...
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Rest in Peace
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jun 20, 2011 20:13:02 GMT -5
He should have claimed she wanted an abortion but couldn't afford it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 20:19:19 GMT -5
I wish I could find more. These cases where they charge people with killing a person when they kill an unborn child interest me. Can't see anywhere how far along she was.. I'm sure he took the plea, and was offered the plea, to avoid a trial about when life starts, etc...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 21:50:26 GMT -5
He plead guilty...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 21:53:39 GMT -5
Correct. Plea bargain to voluntary manslaughter.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 20, 2011 21:59:41 GMT -5
But abortion is legal...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:02:02 GMT -5
Correct......
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Post by idiotsguide on Jun 20, 2011 22:04:11 GMT -5
This is yet another example of what govt regulations can do to the freedom of the people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:07:48 GMT -5
What do you mean?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:08:08 GMT -5
He was not a professional providing a medical service. Even in the 1700s, when abortion was legal, causing someone to miscarry after they 'quickening' (when the fetus can be felt moving) who was not yourself, was a misdemeanor....
The thing is, you can plead to just about any offense. It doesn't mean that the evidence would have necessarily allowed you to be convicted of that offense.
Have you ever had a speading ticket, but lowered it to failure to obey trafic signs... no points... whoo hoo... but not exactly what you were guilty of doing...
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jun 20, 2011 22:09:50 GMT -5
There is a legal distinction between the intentional death of an unborn child at the request of the mother (which is legal) and the intentional death of an unborn child which was not at the request of the mother. Many states have laws on the books which makes it a specific crime to to unlawfully kill an unborn child which apply to third parties.
(Note: I have no wish to engage in a debate over the legality of abortion, I'm merely making the point that there are a number of laws out there which draw these distinctions.)
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Post by idiotsguide on Jun 20, 2011 22:11:59 GMT -5
Roe v. Wade has been an affront to the freedom of the American people.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:14:21 GMT -5
How so?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Strange laws.... one is murder, manslaughter in this case, by plea... one is abortion...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 20, 2011 23:26:42 GMT -5
...I'd wonder, too, if the sentence was weighted somehow due to the aggravated assault aspect in his kicking mom... seems like he should have gotten more time, imo...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 23:52:04 GMT -5
Unless things have changed a lot in the last few years men don't usually get prison for kicking women around. They have to damn near kill you to get prison.. I'm glad he got something at least, for killing the baby. Poor little thing.
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Post by pig on Jun 21, 2011 7:24:48 GMT -5
Anyone who believes in abortion has no right to be affronted by this story. After all their baseline is that a fetus is not a human life. To believe in one and not the other shows an incongruity and the holding of two mutually exclusive tenants. In other words the person believes in two things that are not possible. Either one or the other beliefs is not true. Just sayin...........
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 7:27:47 GMT -5
Anyone who believes in abortion has no right to be affronted by this story. After all their baseline is that a fetus is not a human life. To believe in one and not the other shows an incongruity and the holding of two mutually exclusive tenants. In other words the person believes in two things that are not possible. Either one or the other beliefs is not true. Just sayin........... Do people not beleive in abortion? If so, they need to get their head out of the sand. I mean, there are about 1.3 million of them a year.
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Post by pig on Jun 21, 2011 7:29:30 GMT -5
There are actually about 42 million abortions per year in the world.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 21, 2011 7:36:38 GMT -5
I beg to differ, Mr. Pig. I don't think anyone "believes in abortion", per se. I think some of us believe it's not our place to make such a decision for others. I also don't think anyone has said a fetus is not a human life. Of course, it is; however, prior to a certain point in gestation, that human life cannot survive outside the uterus, no matter what Herculean efforts we might try. At that point, it is a potential human life, as is a zygote. As far as that goes, a sperm, or an egg is a potential human life, if we take it down to the nitty-gritty; however, that would be a foolish thing to do.
As far as this particular story is concerned, the woman didn't choose to have an abortion. The man who kicked her in the gut made that choice for her. He had no more right to do that than I have to make the decision as to what she should do about her pregnancy. She didn't take the life of her child. He did, and he did so without her permission. For that reason, this story doesn't concern abortion. The tie-in is beyond tenuous. It's non-existent.
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Post by pig on Jun 21, 2011 7:39:25 GMT -5
I also don't think anyone has said a fetus is not a human life. Of course, it is;
Then please do tell why it isn't murder. I'm waiting. And don't think I didn't see your "Mr." as your intentionally trying to insult me. For someone who has a cat kneading a naked fat man it doesn't mean much. You don't come into a debate insulting someone or you should expect it back.
For that reason, this story doesn't concern abortion. The tie-in is beyond tenuous. It's non-existent.
Gee I guess you're the end all be all in how people should think huh?
You should really rethink your statements if you're going to be a mod I find you highly insulting and condescending.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 21, 2011 7:51:36 GMT -5
No, my use of Mr. wasn't meant as an insult. It was just a slip of the fingers. If it offended you, I apologize.
I don't know what the gestational age of this fetus was, so can't say much other than the jury found it to be murder, apparently. I'm not involved, so not required to make that determination. I only point out that a fetus under a certain gestational age isn't capable of life anyway. That's just a simple truth. If the fetus is carried long enough, it will become a baby human being. No argument there.
The point I was making is just that this was a case of someone other than the mother making the decision to end her fetus' potential life (whatever gestational age the fetus was) and that's where the murder business comes in, as I see it. There was no abortion involved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 7:56:19 GMT -5
I also don't think anyone has said a fetus is not a human life. Of course, it is; Then please do tell why it isn't murder. I'm waiting. Because the legislative, judicial and executive branches of our great government have statutorily and definitively defined abortion as a legal act, therefore by definition, it cannot be murder.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 21, 2011 7:56:36 GMT -5
This discussion reminds me of Rep.Franklin's proposal to set up panels to investigate miscarraiges for possible murder charges.
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Post by pig on Jun 21, 2011 8:00:14 GMT -5
Fair enough. <------mmhmm
I only point out that a fetus under a certain gestational age isn't capable of life anyway. That's just a simple truth.
The use of "is not viable outside the womb" doesn't work for me. For example, if I were to take you and place you in the woods without any other people the odds of you surviving are slim. Does that make you unviable? Hardly. Surviving outside the womb is irrelevant to the definition of human life. The baby can not survive on it's own even if it's full term without being 100% dependant upon another person anyway.
No there was no abortion involved there was however, murder involved. My point is that there is no murder involved if one believes that abortion should be legal.
Because the legislative, judicial and executive branches of our great government have statutorily and definitively defined abortion as a legal act, therefore by definition, it cannot be murder.
Nice semantic argument. Meaningless.
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Post by pig on Jun 21, 2011 8:06:44 GMT -5
Pig, I don't agree with abortion, but I also don't believe I have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body,
Well then you also don't believe in telling a woman she shouldn't use illegal drugs, commit suicide or commit murder for that matter as those are all personal choices right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 8:08:29 GMT -5
Fair enough. <------mmhmm Because the legislative, judicial and executive branches of our great government have statutorily and definitively defined abortion as a legal act, therefore by definition, it cannot be murder. Nice semantic argument. Meaningless. HUH? Murder is defined by statute. Therefore, since statue specifically states that abortion is not murder, how can one call abortion murder?
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Post by pig on Jun 21, 2011 8:13:30 GMT -5
Please look up the legal definition of murder (it varies by locale) and then tell me what in the definition does not apply to abortion. There is nothing in the law regarding the legality of abortion. It was cleverly caged under "right to privacy". Go ahead Arch, you seem pretty confident.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 21, 2011 8:16:14 GMT -5
...I still woulda wanted this guy with more time... sounds like he got a good deal...
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