ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 20, 2011 11:25:03 GMT -5
Sundays during football season,I hold services in my garage with plenty of holy water for all in the neighborhood.Why can't part of my property be exempt from taxes?
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 11:27:42 GMT -5
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dancinmama
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LIVIN' THE DREAM!!
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Post by dancinmama on Jun 20, 2011 11:36:30 GMT -5
I feel the same way about these "ordinances" concerning lawn mowing, which plants you can grow, what color you can paint your house, etc. It's YOUR house. We pay $51/quarter for the privilege of having an HOA that has the "power" to approve/disapprove anything that people want to do to their property: house color, landscaping plans, etc. They are also supposed to fine people who do not adhere and/or are "slipping" (i.e. are not maintaining their yards to the standards outlined). Okay, I understand it in principle; but it doesn't work. First, if someone is not playing by the rules, yes, they can be fined; but try getting the money out of them without having to hire a lawyer. In addition, landscaping plans are reviewed by "the board". Any homeowner in the association can be elected to the board. How many ordinary people do you think know enough about plants and landscaping to adequately approve or disapprove a landscaping plan? It is REALLY stupid. In addition, a developer who bought many lots in the neighborhood was somehow able to obtain a waiver for the houses he built so that those people do not belong to the HOA, pay fees, or have to follow any of the rules or guidelines. How STUPID is that? So we continue to pay $204/year for an HOA that is meaningless. I would love to just get rid of the HOA, but it takes 100% vote to do that; it will never happen. Sorry. Rant over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 11:44:52 GMT -5
I have a HOA also. HATE it. Try raising a bunch of kids in a HOA neighborhood that does not allow a drop of oil on the ground, ANYTHING out of place, including your rocks-- yard is made of rocks... ridiculous.. if I can ever afford to move I am moving out in the desert, far away from HOAs. Kids are grown, hardly use the pool, rec room, weight room, basketball, hand ball and racquet ball courts-- nothing but a pain in the butt these days.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 20, 2011 11:51:18 GMT -5
Begs the question: Who's lawn is it? Who OWNS the lawn? I feel the same way about these "ordinances" concerning lawn mowing, which plants you can grow, what color you can paint your house, etc. It's YOUR house. Now, markets could be created for this sort of thing-- if government would get out of the way. For example, "noise" could be priced and then purchased or sold like "carbon credits". We could allow the market to price "peace and quiet" and rather than regulate it-- if your neighbor wanted to make noise, he could buy "peace and quiet" from you and his other neighbors. Now, if someone refused to sell-- too bad. Peace and quiet would obviously cost more during the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. (or close to it) I think you are failing to account for the logistics of selling noise. What level and are we talking? Overall weighted dBa rating or are we talking at a pitch (which can be more annoying at lower levels). Are you going to have to calculate your dBa rating at each neighbors house and at which point in the house, who is going to calculate it and how will they take into account all the obstructions without hiring an acoustical engineer. At what point does the noise drop to a level that you no longer have to sell it to your neighbors? At the threshold of hearing? Good luck mowing your lawn, ever again... We have technology-- meter it. My point isn't that it's not complicated, however- it may well be. Maybe local government and/or HOA's are the way to go after all-- but let's find out. Let's have the discussion.
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 11:51:53 GMT -5
I'd rather live in an old house in an old neighborhood in town. Hub will have nothing to do with an old house though. Grew up with streets shaded by tall trees, mature old fashioned landscaping, big yards, Victorian houses, alleys where hollyhocks and sweetpeas grew, and no HOA's. AND lemonade stands on the sidewalk. Loved it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 20, 2011 11:54:47 GMT -5
I feel the same way about these "ordinances" concerning lawn mowing, which plants you can grow, what color you can paint your house, etc. It's YOUR house. We pay $51/quarter for the privilege of having an HOA that has the "power" to approve/disapprove anything that people want to do to their property: house color, landscaping plans, etc. They are also supposed to fine people who do not adhere and/or are "slipping" (i.e. are not maintaining their yards to the standards outlined). Okay, I understand it in principle; but it doesn't work. First, if someone is not playing by the rules, yes, they can be fined; but try getting the money out of them without having to hire a lawyer. In addition, landscaping plans are reviewed by "the board". Any homeowner in the association can be elected to the board. How many ordinary people do you think know enough about plants and landscaping to adequately approve or disapprove a landscaping plan? It is REALLY stupid. In addition, a developer who bought many lots in the neighborhood was somehow able to obtain a waiver for the houses he built so that those people do not belong to the HOA, pay fees, or have to follow any of the rules or guidelines. How STUPID is that? So we continue to pay $204/year for an HOA that is meaningless. I would love to just get rid of the HOA, but it takes 100% vote to do that; it will never happen. Sorry. Rant over. I've made this point before-- the problem is that when I was growing up you had the "hall monitor" position. The hall monitor personalities could be hall monitors and teachers pets and so on. Then outside of school, they didn't matter. Now we have a legal and regulatory structure, and governing bodies everywhere that have sprung up to deal with it-- and these busy-bodies get involved. I am not involved in the HOA because governing and decision making do not lend themselves to people like me who'd rather govern by not governing and leaving people to make their own decisions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 11:58:07 GMT -5
Me, too, Marsha..
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 20, 2011 11:58:36 GMT -5
I'd rather live in an old house in an old neighborhood in town. Hub will have nothing to do with an old house though. Grew up with streets shaded by tall trees, mature old fashioned landscaping, big yards, Victorian houses, alleys where hollyhocks and sweetpeas grew, and no HOA's. AND lemonade stands on the sidewalk. Loved it. Me, too. Sadly, these places are full of the aged, and/or filled with welfare recipients. The government in IL at least-- and I suspect in other places-- has torn down the failed housing projects and moved the residents out to the suburbs so now virtually anyone can end up living next to a Section 8 housing subsidy recipient. And there's nothing a community, or even an HOA can do about it.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jun 20, 2011 11:58:52 GMT -5
Also, selling tamales out of the back of a van in a grocery store parking lot is a little more discreet than a kid setting up a lemonade stand
And a lot more potentially harmful from a food poisoning point of view.Lemonade has citric acid which is a preservative.
I'm glad my kids were able to have all those lemonade stands when they were growing up. They made it fresh. Squeezed lemons. Measured sugar and water. Were polite when waiting on their customers. Learned to make change. Generally, they were supporting a charity. So they saw how generous people could be when they would pay $5 for 6 oz. of lemonade,even though the sign would say 50 cents. So many lessons in a simple summer activity that will probably be outlawed.
I'd guess that in another 10 years we'll be raising children exclusively indoors, in bubble wrap?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 12:01:08 GMT -5
Yep, Malarky. Little fat anti-social kids that are comp genuises....
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 12:05:56 GMT -5
This is depressing. What a thing to teach children. How can you even teach children to respect a force that would do this? Oh well, the cop also gave the bell ringing Mexican ice cream hawkers the heave ho. Not sure if there were any tamale ladies around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 12:11:49 GMT -5
This is depressing. What a thing to teach children. How can you even teach children to respect a force that would do this? Oh well, the cop also gave the bell ringing Mexican ice cream hawkers the heave ho. Not sure if there were any tamale ladies around. This is the perfect teaching moment for children. How else can they learn that the nanny police state is taking over and needs to be pushed back at every chance?
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 12:13:41 GMT -5
That's a good point, Archie.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Jun 20, 2011 12:16:37 GMT -5
Am I the only one who noticed that it took a sergeant to break up this crime ring? I wonder where SWAT is hiding.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 20, 2011 12:20:11 GMT -5
I'm very cautious in teaching my kids to automatically obey authority. I have been teaching my 7 year old that whenever a situation doesn't "feel right" to him, he should get another adult involved.
I think we are nearing the point where we all must be more proactive in policing the police. They need to be watched- even followed, and recorded by private citizens at every opportunity so that even if there is no legal accountability, we can do what O'Reilly has been doing to judges and SHAME them into submission to their boss-- US.
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 12:24:03 GMT -5
Maybe the neighborhood kids could learn something from the gypsies in Rome. They could spread out their wares on a blanket and when the police show up gather the corners of the blanket together and run like the wind. Then set up again in a new location. Good exercise too. Of course it's a little easier to do with hats or fake jewelry and whatnot.
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Post by magichat on Jun 20, 2011 13:02:12 GMT -5
I think you are failing to account for the logistics of selling noise. What level and are we talking? Overall weighted dBa rating or are we talking at a pitch (which can be more annoying at lower levels). Are you going to have to calculate your dBa rating at each neighbors house and at which point in the house, who is going to calculate it and how will they take into account all the obstructions without hiring an acoustical engineer. At what point does the noise drop to a level that you no longer have to sell it to your neighbors? At the threshold of hearing? Good luck mowing your lawn, ever again... We have technology-- meter it. My point isn't that it's not complicated, however- it may well be. Maybe local government and/or HOA's are the way to go after all-- but let's find out. Let's have the discussion. How do you meter out other ambiant noise? I think you are failing to realize just how complicated this actually is. BTW, most noise ordinances that I am aware of (several, as it directly impacts my work) are all at the city level of government. Let me give another example of the difficulty. A union working in a warehouse has it in their contract that the room must be kept at XºF. They put a thermometer in the room and sue saying it doesn't meet their contract. An engineer comes in and removes the bias from the connected point of the thermometer to the structure and the radiation to the outside wall to prove that in fact the air temperature does meet the contract. Is this the level you want sound to go to in every neighborhood in the country?
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Post by maui1 on Jun 20, 2011 14:36:47 GMT -5
To my "law and order" conservative friends: You can't have a police state without...police. It's time to defund departments, cut back on excess staff so that they can pass whatever stupid laws they want, but they simply will not have the manpower to enforce them. This way, they will have to 'prioritize'. Oh, they'll scream and shout and try to scare us into thinking that our house will burn to the ground because we don't have enough firefighters-- but we need to stand up and tell them to go to hell: PRIORITIZE. You don't need to be policing lemonade stands and garage sales.
this post can easily apply for the need not to raise the debt ceiling! good post paul-
also---------my take of road side solisitation..........i always give to children selling and never take what they are selling to reinforce the positive nature of their actions.
i never give to beggars that are just asking for money or donations.......i always buy or listen to those that are doing something trying to earn my money, as it shows a genuine need, and those that really need, should get when they make an effort.
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 15:17:37 GMT -5
Amen, Maui and Paul.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jun 20, 2011 15:29:02 GMT -5
All around the U of A people sell their yards and driveways for parking on game days. I have never heard of cops messing with those people. God..can't even IMAGINE game day without this. Even with shuttles running from all the malls to the U of A traffic is gridlocked for several hours after games, the city just can't afford enough shuttles... and people walk MILES sometimes from where they have to park. And yeahyeahyeah-- there are drunken brawls.. Green Bay would be a nightmare without people doing this! They only have parking for half the stadium's capacity ;D
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 20, 2011 15:32:48 GMT -5
It's sad to see the lemonade stand we all remember from our childhood become verboten. Still, during the times we're remembering "superbugs" weren't heard of. Now, they're everywhere and the situation is getting worse. Even the strongest of our antibiotics are coming up against resistance. It's something to think about.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jun 20, 2011 15:42:24 GMT -5
It's sad to see the lemonade stand we all remember from our childhood become verboten. Still, during the times we're remembering "superbugs" weren't heard of. Now, they're everywhere and the situation is getting worse. Even the strongest of our antibiotics are coming up against resistance. It's something to think about. I'm one of those who believe that this is our own damn fault. Society has become so afraid of germs that people are unable to develop their own antibodies. Kids are supposed to eat dirt. Wallow in it. Play with frogs and worms. We're not meant to be raised in a sterile environment. When we are, we have no defenses. Twenty years ago if you had diarrhea, you shrugged and said "I caught a 24 hour bug" and went on with your life. Probably you had food poisoning. It wasn't cause for mass hysteria.
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cael
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Post by cael on Jun 20, 2011 15:44:49 GMT -5
Few years back near me, a hot dog cart guy called the cops on kids who had opened up a lemonade stand near his spot.... because they were competition and hadn't paid the license fee like he had jerk. Now I want some lemonade!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 20, 2011 15:46:38 GMT -5
No question about that, Malarky. We got ourselves into this position. Too many parents rushed their sniffling children to the doctor and pounded the table until the child was given an antibiotic, even though antibiotics are useless against viruses. Because of this, we now have highly resistant microbes out there waiting to jump on the unsuspecting victim. Many of these are very easily passed from person to person. Once contracted, some of them are almost impossible to stop. Would that we could go back in time; however, this is the way it is today.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jun 20, 2011 15:53:27 GMT -5
My neighbor's daughter sells homemade lemonade, made from freshly-squeezed lemons (some off our tree, lol!) She does this about once a month in the warm weather. She doesn't disrupt traffic. And she hasn't yet drawn the attention of our City's Code Enforcement (which has dwindled in size due to budget issues.)
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cael
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Post by cael on Jun 20, 2011 15:56:16 GMT -5
I'm a health inspector and let me tell you, we have never shut down a lemonade stand
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 20, 2011 15:58:34 GMT -5
I'm a health inspector and let me tell you, we have never shut down a lemonade stand SLACKER.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 20, 2011 16:01:39 GMT -5
To me, there's nothing more compelling than a kid-run lemonade stand. I've GOT to stop. I remember all of us neighborhood kids doing exactly the same thing in the 40s and 50s. Such fun! Fortunately, I have a healthy immune system and know enough to take reasonable precautions. It really is a shame kids can't enjoy the freedoms they once enjoyed. Lemonade stands are the least of their worries. Remember when we used to go trick-or-treating without worrying about finding razor blades in that apple we were given?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 20, 2011 17:52:39 GMT -5
As kids we set up Lemonade stands, and donated the money to the 'fresh air fund " think it wass summer camp for kids..and you got your name in the papaer and if you had a $25 donation, a photographer from the papaer would come out and take your picture plus names and it would be published.
Best customers, were truckers and construction , road workers..
My grand kids when younger would set up on the road in Concord Mass, Monument Rd, seems all the bikers, not motor, but bike bikers would go by on a weeeknd and many stopped...
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