trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 13:21:30 GMT -5
So I was talking with my DH the other night about future home renovations. When we purchased our home in 2008, we knew that we would wanted to renovate most of the rooms. DH is a contractor, so any renovations would be done at cost of materials. We bought the house for the location and the property, but I wouldn't say it's my dream house. It's adequate, but lacking alot of storage/closet space and the bathrooms and kitchen have seen better days. We have fixed all necessary issues, painted, added moldings, put beautiful hardwood floors in the living room and master bedroom, etc. We still want to renovate both baths, the kitchen and add a master bedroom suite and an all-seasons room with a fireplace, where we currently have a raised patio. We also want to convert the house from oil to natural gas and widen the driveway (long, narrow and a real challenge to get out of). Anyway, with the addition of our adopted teenage DD, space is somewhat tight...liveable, but tight. We always assumed that at some point, when we had the money (not right now) that we would just renovate room by room. DH and I had a very interesting conversation last night. We were discussing what it would cost to actually make our current house into our dream house; probably somewhere in the neighborhood of $125,000. DH said that it might make more sense to just buy something else, due to the low prices of the current real estate market. He said the price of materials hasn't changed and of course a renovation is a huge, time consuming, messy undertaking. I got on line and I couldn't believe what houses were selling for. I am of course aware that the market also affects the price of my current house. I have no idea what it would sell for at this point. It is a very unique property with almost 5 acres in an area where land is at a premium. DH thinks with the renovations we did and with the property that we have, we could at least break even on the house. It is appealing to very specific buyers, like someone who wants horses at home or owns a business and needs places to park their equipment. Anyway, this is all just fantasy talk, because we're not in the position to do anything at this point, but I'm curious, what would you do? Let's say you had the money to do the full renovation or for a down payment on a new house and your mortgage payment was going to be about the same, but you might have to come up with a little more on the down payment side. Would you renovate your current house or would you try to sell your current home (with the possibility of losing some of your down payment) and spend a little bit more and buy your dream house? Thoughts ??
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2011 13:24:20 GMT -5
Location, location, location.
How do you like your neighborhood? Would your "dream house" be out of place?
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 14, 2011 13:25:18 GMT -5
Yeah, what thyme said.
Also, how much longer is your teenager going to be at home full-time?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2011 13:26:30 GMT -5
If you were adding lots of square footage, I would say it would just make more sense to buy new. But you are mostly doing upgrades, so it is a toss up.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2011 13:31:23 GMT -5
Given your previous posts, I'll be surprised if you are able to come up with $125k before your teenager moves out.
Besides, she might have more fond memories of you all being cramped in together and that you would want her that close, vs. building a wing for her to be by herself.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Jun 14, 2011 13:32:00 GMT -5
My DH and I were having this debate. We love our neighbors, but we're outgrowing the house. Initially we thought we would add on, but the more we looked at what it would actually take and the space we have available, we've decided to buy another house. We're probably not going to be financially ready to upgrade for a few more years.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 13:38:51 GMT -5
We happen to live in a really nice area and the school system is great. We are very lucky because our taxes are very low for our area. We don't live in a neighborhood. There is a house on either side of us (nothing behind us or across the street - they can't build in either spot). The house on my right is a million dollar home and the house on the other side needs to be knocked down LOL (my husband dreams of buying that property and knocking down the house someday). If I did the renovations I wanted, the house would certainly not be out of place. The town I live in has very, very expensive homes in it. Our house is probably one of the least glamorous. Even with the renovations, I couldn't compete with most of the town (which is totally fine with me). My definition of my dream house is probably vastly different then a lot of other peoples. I don't want anything ostentatious. I wouldn't change the primary house from a ranch style. I would just add on a master bedroom suite with bathroom and an all-season room to enjoy our beautiful surroundings (the reason we bought this house in the first place). We like rural settings with privacy and lots of land . We like that we can grow a huge garden, have our entire family set up tents in our backyard and campout (the kids think they're really camping) and that we have the option to bring out horses home from the boarding farm if we choose.
My DD is only 14 and just starting 9th grade next year....so at least 4 more years full time.
The other homes I was looking at also had a lot of land, but the houses themselves were bigger and more updated.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Jun 14, 2011 13:47:55 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is the price you paid for your house + the cost of renovations vs. what you could sell it for compared to the cost of building new (and doing most of the labor) vs. what you could sell a new house for.
With extensive upgrades on an existing house you might end up putting more into the house than you could sell it for - even with no labor costs involved. With building new and doing most of the labor yourself, you should end up with instant equity.
You should check with your real estate friend about the value of your house. Our house is kind of unique like that and last year we had a couple of real estate agents give us estimates. Both told us that comps would be a BIG problem. One told us that he could easily find a buyer willing to pay $135K or more who would value the heated garage workshop, gardens, etc. but the only available comps for a similar sized/age house were in the $115-125K range (there were only a few houses in the preceding 12 months within 15 miles that were a similar size and age). New houses are going for $150+ None of the comps had the same level of upgrading or the unique features, but unless the buyers found just the right local appraiser who had actual knowledge of the comps, chances are any deal would fall through upon appraisal. Our last appraisal was $135 over 3 years ago and our area supposedly hasn't been hit by the bubble, but sales in our area have been really slow.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jun 14, 2011 13:48:53 GMT -5
try, five acres is a lot of land. If you like the area, have you considered subdividing the lot and building your dream house on part of the existing lot? Maybe even keep your existing house as rental property?
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 13:52:57 GMT -5
Thyme, this was purely fantasy talk. I was just trying to get an idea of real numbers from my DH. In actuality we could afford all of the renovations or a downpayment on another house right now. I always said that I had substantial assets in savings/investments outside of retirement, but that is not the intended use for the money. I was just looking for opinions and I wanted to find out if anyone else found themselves in this position and what they ended up doing.
We love, love, love our property and again, I think the school system is wonderful for DD. I do go frustrated over the lack of closet space and I would love for the bathrooms and kitchen to be renovated. The master bath is a disaster (I refuse to use it) and DH kinda rigged the main bath to make it look better, but it could really use a renovation. The kitchen is ok, it's very large, but it's dated and worn and not our taste at all. DH did some magic in there too, so we could deal with it for the next few years.
I think that DD feels like we're living on poverty lane compared to homes that most of her friends live in, but that's a non-issue for me. She's never lived in a town like this before and she has been having a little bit of a difficult time adjusting. She's finally making friends and doing ok, but I think she sees all this wealth around her and she might feel a bit bad about our home. I'm quick to remind her that not every kid gets to have their own horse and riding lessons and she should really think about being thankful for what she has. She gets it, but once in awhile envy slips in. She also lives in a pretty nice home, just because it doesn't come with it's own zip code, doesn't mean it's not nice.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 14, 2011 13:55:13 GMT -5
Well you could do it in 2 steps... A) current bathrooms and kitchen and B)then add the master and whatever else you want...
I'm with you on the lack of closet space. Armiores are your friend
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 14:02:15 GMT -5
tsketter, I'm fairly certain that we could subdivide. I know when we bought the property our next door neighbor was very worried that we were going to clear the woods and do that (2 1/2 acres are wooded). We love the privacy that our lot provides. Our lot backs to a protected wildlife area as well, so nobody can build behind it. My DH has tons of trails out in the woods and he spends lot of time back their exploring with the dogs. He even has wildlife trail camera's set up...yup fox, coyote, deer, wild turkeys, etc. all in the backyard. I think I would probably just renovate the current property. Nothing crazy mind you, just update bathrooms and kitchen and add a master bedroom suite on and an all-season room. We don't need tons of space. I'm not someone who wants a huge house to impress people. I'm much more low key and I would rather spend my money on other things. I want it cozy and homey, but, in it's current state, it's not very easy to have the whole family over for holidays (especially when we can't celebrate outside). The current house is about 2000 sq feet, but part of that is the original 2 car garage which was converted into a makeshift "game room" by the previous owner. It's really fairly unfinished space with a cement floor and we currently use it for storage and for the dogs when we're not home. It's a huge space and the original plan was to make it a bar room....it's last on the list
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 14:06:03 GMT -5
CarolinaKat...that's the plan. Actually the plan is to renovate the master bath first...it's truly hellish and in need of many repairs and a major overhaul. I can't believe my husband actually uses it. Then we'll go from there, little by litte.
We were kind of talking in a "if we won the lottery" sort of way and ended up with a million or a million and 1/2 bucks what would we do, renovate or buy something new. We were talking as if we had the money there and we just needed to make the choice. I was curious what others would do if they had the money. Would they stay put and improve or just buy something new.
BTW...reality has stepped in and we're still working on a future plan for the master bath. Hopefully this winter we'll be able to gut it. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 14, 2011 14:09:32 GMT -5
Well, if I really loved the property, I would definately rennovate. If I was 'meh' on the property and thought i could find one better, I'd move.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 14:21:23 GMT -5
CKat- I love the property, but in this real estate market I'm sure I could fall in love with another property LOL !!! I couldn't believe what was available. Truly gorgeous homes on beautiful properties. Granted, they are more expensive than my current home, but 2 years ago I couldn't have even thought about owning one of those homes. We were talking in terms of selling the current house and using the money we would have spend on a renovation as a down payment on something else. If we spend just a little more, we could end up with a much nicer property, with around the same mortgage payment ( I would have to investigate taxes). Of course there is alway the issue with selling the current house, but still, it was very interesting what your money could by. Previously we would have always thought to renovate, especially with DH being a contractor, it would have always made the most sense, so this was a real change in thought process.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 14:29:29 GMT -5
qofcc - I don't think I would ever build. First of all land is hard to come by and very expensive in this area. Secondly I don't think our marriage could survive the process LOL !!! DH would of course be the GC and he would do most of the work himself...I don't think I could wait a decade to get into the house Luckily for us, whatever we did to our current house would retain it's value. Again, we are on the low end as far as houses go in our town. My neighbor tore down two houses and build the house he currently lives in. It's beautiful. Again, I guess I was just so shocked at the prices of some of the houses currently on the market. They were much less expensive than I had thought they would be. Granted price is relative to the area you live in, so some people may have had a stroke when they saw the prices, but I was truly amazed. I would have never even considered the fact that it might make more sense to sell and buy new then renovate...it would have never occurred to me in the past.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 14:35:51 GMT -5
kari - very valid points and something I have thought about as well. It's hard enough keeping the house clean and organized with a kid and two dogs. I know how trying a renovation can be and I also know that my DH isn't the fastest worker in the world. Of course, I would withstand the renovation if it meant ultimately having what I wanted and saving tons of money too. It took us a lot longer to initially get in the house than DH anticipated (he was putting in new floors, painting and do some small projects) and I was ready to strangle him.
I think the kitchen would probably be the worst part and the main bath (if DH didn't do it quickly, but he would, because he wouldn't want me cramping his style in his bathroom). The all-season room wouldn't disrupt anything and I don't think the master bedroom addition would either (except for dust and noise).
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 14, 2011 14:39:41 GMT -5
If the Master Bath is that bad, then I would renovate the Master Bath. Your resale value will be much greater if the bath is in VG condition.
I agree with others that if you DD is a teen it may just be a short time and she will be off to college. Maximize every bit of space you have. Closet maid is my friend. I have ripped out my closets and installed closet track shelving. Also go through your closets and get rid of everything you have not worn in a year or so. In my Master bedroom closet I added another shelf above the shelf the builder installed. In my Pantry I put a rack to hold condiments on the door. It was something DH and I noticed in a neighbors house when we walked through an open house.
No one sees the defects in your house like you yourself do. Let it go. Almost everyone I know has an unfinished project or two. Usually the spouse of a contractor has more unfiished projects than anyone else. Many of my kids friends live in smaller houses than we do, although our school district includes some that are worth at least double or tripple what our house is worth.
We went to a party this weekend and my DD came away talking about how rich the host is. The house was a Mansion, but I am not sure of hosts financial condition. I personally think he is maxed out on credit and simply lives very high. I would much rather my kids admire the neighbors who have no debt (other than the mortgage). Those are the people I consider well off, or well settled.
It sounds like more went into the decision to buy this particular property than just simply the house.
Visited an Aunt and Uncle in a nicer midwestern town recently. Their ranch house is on the small size and is c. 1960. The redid the woodwork, put in new doors and have no clutter. No one would go in that house and think they are poor. I keep telling myself to declutter, I hope someday comes before I retire.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jun 14, 2011 14:41:48 GMT -5
Part of the issue is that when they are doing it for themselves it takes a LOT longer than doing it for business. My DH works a regular 50 hour week for his day job and has a part time subcontracting job that he does with his buddies. So he will plan to spend a weekend putting in crown and then he gets a call about the subcontracting job and off he goes. If your DHs business takes off the way that you hope it will, you will be living with the same thing during your renovations. It just goes with the territory that the business needs come before fixing up the family residence.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 14:55:03 GMT -5
bean29, you are absolutely right. The decision to buy this house was all about the location and the property, we knew the house could be renovated. I don't worry about what other people around me have. I do personally like certain things and I would love to renovate the bathrooms and one day, the kitchen. Those projects were on the original wish list when we purchased the home. I love where we live and I never felt inadequate in anyway. I'm only interested in what we have and what we spend our money on. We make very deliberate decisions on what we choose to spend our money on. Living in a McMansion has never been a desire of mine. Living on a property where I can have my horses is definitely something I'm interested in. We chose to sacrifice the house for the property. Don't misunderstand me, the house is very nice, it's just not one of the 6000+ square foot homes that dominate the area.
My DD recently came to live with us. I never thought about the wealth in our town, until she started going to school with other kids that clearly live in much larger houses and have a lot more stuff. She does make comments once in awhile and she does seem to feel that our home/possessions are somewhat inferior to those around her. When we drive by really nice homes for sale, she make comments like "why don't we buy that one". She really doesn't have a concept of money, but I'm working on it. I am trying to teach her that there will always be people that have more than her and their will always be people that have less and she should be really thankful for the things she has (btw...she has a lot more now than she ever did, she just came from an area where most people were working class, so she didn't notice the difference).
This discussion about buying vs. renovating was outside of DD's feelings on the matter. It was a very general discussion with DH about the real cost of renovating and that's when he said, it might actually be smarter to buy something else ( I was surprised he was thinking that way)
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 14, 2011 15:02:00 GMT -5
Kari - you are absolutely correct. You probably know by my other posts, that I believe that work always comes first. I think that DH could crank out the bathrooms fairly quickly (he would probably try to do them during a slow time). The kitchen would obviously take more time and I would have to be patient (which I would be as long as he was working at paying jobs). I'm not sure that we would ever put on the addition, not unless we somehow came into money or DH's business really takes off. I just don't think it's that necessary; more of a "what would it take to make this house perfect" wish.
We do really want to convert the house to gas before we do the kitchen renovation and that is very costly (new furnace, ac, clothes dryer, hot water heater and stove). The driveway is also on the list, because it was very poorly planned and it can be very difficult to turn around in (you really don't want to back onto my road if you don't have to). Little, by little we'll get there.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 14, 2011 15:49:49 GMT -5
...:::"We were kind of talking in a "if we won the lottery" sort of way and ended up with a million or a million and 1/2 bucks what would we do, renovate or buy something new.":::...
At that point, demolish and begin anew.
If you renovate, you get to do it EXACTLY as you want it. If you buy, you may still end up renovating. I say keep the current house, and renovate. If DD will be out of the house in 4 or 5 years, and it'll take about that long to get the projects done, you'll be sitting pretty. In the mean time, no costs of selling, buying, or moving to eat away at your renovation budget.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 14, 2011 15:59:15 GMT -5
trytofindbalance.
Push the driveway renovation as much as possible. My cousin used to live on a mini farm on a highway. Her DD's Fiance was killed pulling out of her driveway by a trucker who fell asleep at the wheel. The DF was not backing out, and he was still in the driveway, but with a teen soon to be driving or already driving you want it to be as safe as possible.
We have a list of priorities for our house too. DH is not a contractor but likes to do things himself. This house is about the sixth one he has renovated or done work on himself. He just finished the floor in one room yesterday and told me "When I am done with this house I am not doing any more projects". I agree I want to be to the point where the only things on the list are cutting the grass, pruning the plant beds and the occasional paint/regular maintenance. We have been working on the current house for about 5 years now. hopefully we will be mostly done within a year.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2011 17:27:15 GMT -5
We went through this when looking for our new place. Did we want to buy an old, but nice house close to everything and renovate it or buy new 20 miles out? One deciding factor was you can't renovate yourself into a larger yard. The little homes close to everything sat on little lots.. Not only bad from a yard point of view, but also killed my 3 car garage dreams.
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share88
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Post by share88 on Jun 15, 2011 4:16:38 GMT -5
I'd buy a different house, cause I would not want to live thru the renovations. Not to mention I lack the skills to renovate.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 15, 2011 11:01:49 GMT -5
Bean - I agree with you about the driveway renovation. Not only is a real pain in the rear if you are parking multiple cars in it, we do live on a well traveled road, on a dangerous curve and people have a tendency to fly by the house. Getting into the driveway can be challenging too. People think I'm putting my blinker on because of the curve and they don't realize I'm pulling in....I've narrowly escaped being rear-ended many, many times. I usually put my blinker on and drive real slow, so whoever is behind me has to slow down and pay attention.
Snerdley - when I say "dream house" I mean it within the context of my particular "dream house"...believe me, I'm not so sure that most people would define it the same way. When we purchased the home, we knew that we would be renovating. We have already made quite a few changes...some necessary and some cosmetic. My main areas of focus are the bathrooms and the kitchen. I can live with everything else and I can wait on the kitchen and baths too. Like I said, if I had some extra income, I would think about adding a master bedroom suite and an all-season room. The house was built in 1973 and it's lacking a decent amount of closet space and a lot of the finishes are in need of updating.
WWBG - funny I was talking about this again with DH last night. He loves the house and says he's very happy there and doesn't need anything else. He agrees that the master bath needs to be renovated asap (it's falling apart) and that although we could live with the main bath and kitchen, it would be nice to remodel them too. We know that we would want to convert to gas before we did the kitchen, so we would have to consider that in any renovation plans we have. DH is more concerned with acquiring the neighbors property at some point. He really wants to knock the house down and put a paddock and small barn on it. I personally think he wants it so badly because there happens to be a giant, new garage/outbuilding on the property that he has his eye on. He said he would use that for all of his equipment and turn our existing garage (giant detached building) back into a place where we can actually park the cars.
I love this board, because it really helps me work out issues that are in my head. After talking with DH last night, I realized that I really do love our house. The location is great and the property is breathtaking. The house is small, but that's ok. We will definitely get those bathrooms and kitchen renovated when we can. If I never get the master bedroom suite or all-season room, I'm ok with that too. If the financial opportunity presents itself, then we'll have to make a decision about that at the time. I happen to love real estate and I love looking at different properties. I'm not really one of those "I want, I want" kind of people. I'm usually pretty content with the things I do have, but sometimes its nice to dream...that's why I bought a lottery ticket for tomorrow's drawing...hey, you never know LOL !!!!
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 15, 2011 11:11:11 GMT -5
Snerdley - just a side note, we bought this house for a number of reasons and one of them was because DH was a contractor and we knew that when we were ready to remodel we could do it at a fraction of the cost that most people would have to spend. Again, we liked the house, but we were aware that needed work, we bought this particular house for location and property, with the knowledge that we could always change the house. We've been doing projects little by litte, as we are able to financially. We both agree that the masterbath is next.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 15, 2011 11:39:33 GMT -5
Well do you have a plan for how you could actually acquire the neighbors property? Thats the kind of thing that you have to wait to come available, then swoop. Have you ever asked them if they would consider selling? I know I would be especially anxious in that situation, since there is only one of it, and if it ever comes available, you only get one shot at it. It would be a shame to commit all your money to renovations, and then have the property slip through your fingers.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 15, 2011 11:48:16 GMT -5
I'm renovating now. There is a toilet in my front yard, bare pipes hanging around in my bathroom and 2 inches of construction dust on every surface of the house.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Jun 15, 2011 12:00:37 GMT -5
WWBG - no, no plan yet. We know the owner of the property. He lives down our road. The property right next store has a rental "shack" on it. I don't think he's going to sell any time soon, but DH can always mention that he should speak with us if and when he is ready to sell. I wouldn't buy it if the price/timing wasn't right anyway. Again, it's more of a "wish list" thing for DH. He would love to own it, but he's talking future plans here....nothing immediate. If it came up for sale next month, we would miss the opportunity, because we're not in the position to buy it now.
Thyme - LOL !!! I understand you're pain, remember I live with a contractor, there are always building materials around, even if they aren't for our house. It's quite a process and it can be really frustrating at times....never goes exactly how you plan it, either financially or time wise. Good luck with your project. I hope it's as painless as possible.
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