Is this censorship?

[Apple]

Jan 4, 2011 13:03:21 GMT -5 @mtntigger said:

Jan 4, 2011 12:55:33 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Good point....I am most familiar with the KJ version, and I did use another version (I need to check which one) when I took a Biblical Lit class in college. I look at those changes as language changes that enhance understanding of the original, and unchanged point of the Book as a whole. The changes in language and grammar in the case of the Bible don't change the meaning as much as they clarify. But that's just my thoughts, as Tex would say.

That's what I was thinking of too. I grew up on the Roman Catholic version, but got a copy of the KJ from someone close in Junior High. I was actually amazed at the differences between the two version. The KJ is a more friendly, loving version (IMO) than the Roman Catholic one is. I haven't done this, but I wonder what types of differences are between those two versions and the Torah, let alone the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Yeah, those KJ and RC versions are meant for WAY different religions...

[Apple]

Jan 4, 2011 13:05:42 GMT -5 @mtntigger said:

Yeah, well you led Lewis and Clark astray and hooked him up with that Indian chick. Nothing good ever came of that.

That Indian chick was wayyyy before Oregon.

SBS beat me to it

[swamp]

Jan 4, 2011 13:03:10 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

As far as critical thinking being done in school now, No Child Left Behind has pretty much taken that out of the curriculum. : (

My 5 year old is fascinated with the Civil War and Abraham Lincoln. Last year his pre-K teacher asked us to talk to him about discussing it in class. I guess he was telling the kids that Abraham Lincoln was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth. Oops.. LOL

Um, 5 year olds discussing historical events is bad?

I admit it, I had to google who assassinated Lincoln. I was pretty sure it was Booth, but MM's post made me doubt myself.

[mtntigger]

Jan 4, 2011 13:03:10 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

As far as critical thinking being done in school now, No Child Left Behind has pretty much taken that out of the curriculum. : (

My 5 year old is fascinated with the Civil War and Abraham Lincoln. Last year his pre-K teacher asked us to talk to him about discussing it in class. I guess he was telling the kids that Abraham Lincoln was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth. Oops.. LOL

Yeah, the no child left behind ticks me off too. Thankfully, I don't have any kids that I have to reeducate.
Ummmmm... Did the teacher not want to admit that people die?

[mtntigger]

Yeah, those KJ and RC versions are meant for WAY different religions...

That's why I was asking originally. Is it ok for each of the religions to rewrite the word of God (if that is what you believe)? And if so, what is the difference between p.c.-ing some literature and not the bible.

(I did say I was playing devil's advocate.)

[swamp]

Jan 4, 2011 13:16:25 GMT -5 @mtntigger said:

Yeah, those KJ and RC versions are meant for WAY different religions...

That's why I was asking originally. Is it ok for each of the religions to rewrite the word of God (if that is what you believe)? And if so, what is the difference between p.c.-ing some literature and not the bible.

(I did say I was playing devil's advocate.)

Yes, if the rewriting is done by someone with a hotline to God.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I suppose it is because Lincoln was shot so he cannot talk about anyone shooting a gun? Please please please MM tell us that you asked her why and what her answer was, I am dying to know!

[Apple]

Ok, I have to admit I'm a fan of fairy tales and nursery rhymes. Disney did a lot of sugar-coating old stories, changing them, etc, but they did it as their own VERSION and did not go back and "fix" the Grimm's stories. If someone wanted to do their own version of Huck Finn, I wouldn't have a big problem with that as long as they left the original alone. In HS I did my research paper on the evolution of fairy tales. It was shortly after a PC version came out. I laughed my ass off reading the PC version, it was so rediculous (and I'm pretty sure the author knew it, if they were serious, they've got issues )

[mtntigger]

Jan 4, 2011 13:19:18 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 4, 2011 13:16:25 GMT -5 @mtntigger said:

That's why I was asking originally. Is it ok for each of the religions to rewrite the word of God (if that is what you believe)? And if so, what is the difference between p.c.-ing some literature and not the bible.

(I did say I was playing devil's advocate.)

Yes, if the rewriting is done by someone with a hotline to God.

Whew! Then the Roman Catholic version is definitely the way to go because I'm sure it is blessed by the pope.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Should we also edit every horrible thing that happened during the halocaust

It's already not being taught or at least not enough. There is an ever growing segement of the population that now believes the holocaust never happened.

Then with the people who lived it passing on and it not being taught properly in schools that segment is only going ot get bigger and bigger.

[Miss Tequila]

Jan 4, 2011 12:49:55 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Isn't there talk now about taking the Civil War out of the school history books? It is absolutely ridiculous!

I bet that's coming from the south...what a bunch of sore losers

[mtntigger]

Jan 4, 2011 13:24:29 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jan 4, 2011 12:49:55 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Isn't there talk now about taking the Civil War out of the school history books? It is absolutely ridiculous!

I bet that's coming from the south...what a bunch of sore losers

LOL! Don't they know that the world is just rainbows and unicorns and Dr. Seuss is just an author who wanted to draw funny pictures and entertain kids?

[Apple]

Jan 4, 2011 13:21:43 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

I guess it was upsetting to the kids to hear about someone being shot. I don't expose my kids to unneccessary/excessive violence, but I also don't keep SpongeBob on the tv 24/7 either. In the evenings, DH and I watch the news and other programs not geared towards kids. My husband watches the History Channel and DS is fascinated with it. We'll change the channel if it gets too graphic or gory but otherwise we try to explain to him at an age appropriate level what he is watching. DH took both boys back to Georgia a couple of weeks ago and I guess my 5 yo got into a deep discussion with an (adult) relative over who the good guys and the bad guys were in the Civil War. LOL

And for the record, Toy Story 3 and Wizard of Oz has given him more bad dreams than anything he has watched on the History Channel.

When DS started 5th grade he had an awesome history teacher that had been in Vietnam. DS loves history, especially war history. He loves to talk to adults about past-events. I think if schools would keep some of the interesting stuff in, more students would enjoy it. Instead, they sterilize everything and make it boring as hell. Kids are not likely to learn real history in school--it's all too "un-PC"

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Yes DQ.. that is exactly why

Holy crap I just took a stab in the dark. Yikes that is totally insane.

While school shootings are bad, to not teach history or let kids discuss it because it invovles a GUN is just plain stupidity.

I really doubt the Columbine shooters or the V-tech shooter got their ideas from reading historical assinastion accounts.

[swamp]

Apple, there was a history teacher (now I think it's called Global Studies) at my HS who served as an infantryman in Vietnam. I wasn't lucky enough to have him, but I understood from the other kids that his unit on Vietnam was fascinating.

[swamp]

Jan 4, 2011 13:37:34 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Apple, I agree.. everything in school now is watered down and boring. Reading/Writing/Math is shoved down their throats and they get science, art, and music only one day a week. : ( Science should be every day. What a way to get kids involved in learning with hands on projects!!!

DQ, there is zero tolerance for any sort of "gun" play which seems to be inherent in boys. Before my oldest even started watching tv other than Sesame Street, he was picking up anything and making shooting sounds with it.

What is it about little boys and guns. My DS does the same thing, and while we don't ban guns in the house, it's not our thing, either. I'm not sure where he picked it up from.......

[mtntigger]

I would love to hear some of the stories that I'm sure my dad has based on where we lived and when. Darn top-secret information!

[swamp]

We gave into the nerf guns this year, but have always let them have squirt guns.

The nerf guns are lots of fun!!!!

[Peace Of Mind]

Jan 4, 2011 12:42:56 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I think people have way too much time on their hands. That's how they spoke back then and historically it's a good thing to read it and be able to understand the context of some of these books. You aren't going to understand one lick of To Kill a Mockingbird if they erase everything that isn't currently considered PC.

Urgh, people have sticks shoved too far up their asses. There is so much shit going on in the world and THIS is what people choose to focus their efforts on?

I agree. Some people will not be happy until we are all just robots saying the same things, feeling the same way, and using verbiage that they set as the standard. I wonder if this will be censored one day because the above comment will be considered inappropriate to sticks and butts.

[Deleted]

Yes it is censorship and totally ridiculous. This politically correct nonsense has got to stop.

The whole PC thing has gone from being mildly annoying to a tool to be used by a small radical group of people to control others. The group that yells loudest & first gets to control the issue. Take for instance Christmas. I don't remember anything in the bible (& I've read it a few times) talking about Santa Claus. Is Xmas a religious holiday, yes BUT it is also something else to a young kid (like 2 holidays in one if you will). Just stupid making an issue out of Santa (& I'm huge on not mixing religion & government).

Back 40 years ago (almost 50) when I was at my first duty station I was brown & from Texas. Can you imagine how many wet back jokes, stories, & puns that I got hit with? Then I told them (after a few months) that I was actually an Indian & got a few of them (mostly about fire water as I remember). Again, all in fun. The truth is that the PC issue is usually brought up by someone (or some organization) that wants to make themselves important in some way (because in real life they aren't important at all).
Also I'll add that if my identity is so wrapped up with Geronimo (or another Indian leader that's been dead 100 years) that I am somehow offended to the core because someone makes a negative comment about him, then I have a bigger problem (mentally) than people not being PC. Just my thoughts.

[Apple]

Jan 4, 2011 13:43:04 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Swamp, I seriously think it is in the DNA. We let the boys have toy guns/nerf guns. However, I am drawing the line for now at air soft guns. A lot of them actually look like real guns (they look like semi-automatic handguns) and they shoot bb's... I'd like my kids to actually graduate high school with both eyes in tact...

So true. My mom has babysat since long before I was born. You have the "rule breakers" like me that have always been a bit of a tomboy, but she always said, no matter how young, if you give a girl a play stroller she will put a doll in it and try to push it around, if you give the stroller to a boy he will tip it over and see if he can take the wheels off.
I think that some of the "gender role" is learned, but we are, as sexes, very different from birth.
And shooting your kid with a nerf gun is awesome!

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Jan 4, 2011 13:23:00 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Should we also edit every horrible thing that happened during the halocaust

It's already not being taught or at least not enough. There is an ever growing segement of the population that now believes the holocaust never happened.

Then with the people who lived it passing on and it not being taught properly in schools that segment is only going ot get bigger and bigger.

So many people do not realize there were more than just Jewish that were persecuted. Catholics, Poles, Gypsies, people with disabilities were also targeted. I am sure I am forgetting a few other groups.

[NastyWoman]

I think this re-writing is ridiculous. But then again, who am I to speak: when my kids were much younger (I am the only one still allowed to call them kids) someone published a list of the 10 most banned books in libraries: I had bought them 8 out of 10. It was all I could do not to run out and complete the set.

Judy Blume was a much maligned author in many of the more conservative states, and yes, Huckleberry Finn was on that list as well!

[Deleted]

"Judy Blume was a much maligned author in many of the more conservative states, and yes, Huckleberry Finn was on that list as well!"

I loved reading Judy Blume as a kid, I read all her books. I let my daughter read them, knowing what was in them. I also bought her all the Harry Potter books despite the bad press about witchcraft. I guess I'm a bad Mom. LOL

My kids are teenagers now, and sexually explicit books intended for adults are about the only thing I can think of right now that I would disapprove of them reading. Actually, DD is a legal adult now, so my disapproval of reading material only means so much.

Huckleberry Finn.......... it's been many years since I read it. I don't believe it should be edited though. Let it stand as it was written. The time that it was written isn't really the point to me, I'd feel the same if it were written last year. The point of the book (since we're talking about *literature* vs fluff) and what one takes away from it, good or bad, is more important to me than the particular words that create the context.

This is from someone that has actually been called that ugly word before and it wouldn't have occurred to me to not let my kids read Huck's story because of that word. I'm an avid reader and I believe it broadens the mind. If they read a newly published book where the author uses slurs just because he/she can, there's something to learn from that too.......... that there really are people that are completely ignorant. I don't sugarcoat things for my kids, or try to shield them from all of the realities of the world and life; past and present. I prefer they be armed with knowledge.

It's important to me that my children become adults that are capable of thinking for themselves. Everything is not black or white; sometimes you have to consider the gray and use critical thinking. I think that trying to raise them in la-la land would have been a disservice to them.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

It's important to me that my children become adults that are capable of thinking for themselves. Everything is not black or white; sometimes you have to consider the gray and use critical thinking. I think that trying to raise them in la-la land would have been a disservice to them.


Applause! Applause!

I also raised my kids to think for themselves. One of the few things my ex helped me do right. Both of them are avid readers and we taught them to ask lots of questions to help them understand what goes on in the world around them. They are both very well adjusted young ladies with a great deal of tolerance and understanding of many situations in their life.

[naggie72]

That is really "big brother" to me, the minute that happens, well I won't be happy.

[piratesparrot]

It is re-writing history. If we forget the past then we are destined to relive it. Plus it is mostly the young people refering to each other (rap music etc) that still uses the heck out of that word. I can remember my parents explaining to me back in the very late 60's why it was a word never to be used and maybe parents need to still explain this to their kids so we don't have to rely on censorship to do our jobs for us.