Dang, Divorce Attorneys are EXPENSIVE

[cme1201]

5000 retainer, If wife is amicable I can get away with less, if she wants to fight can be as high as 15k+.

I need a new career.

Edit for: Spelling, I need more coffee.

[cme1201]

Maybe.

It's not exactly easy to talk with someone who only thinks of her wants. Kids, House and property makes it so I need to protect myself as well as my kids.

[jospaced]

It's money well spent to avoid trouble down the road.

[Colleenz]

Good lawyers are worth the fees - this is one area I would not look for a discount.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Sorry to hear you are going through a divorce.
$15K is pretty inexpensive. My divorce 20 years ago was about $8000.

[jd2005]

Having gone through a divorce I have to say my attorney was priceless.

[Deleted]

My ex and I worked out everything between us and then had a lawyer write it up. $1500.

[jospaced]

Jun 8, 2011 7:53:09 GMT -5 jd2005 said:

Having gone through a divorce I have to say my attorney was priceless.

[cme1201]

Oh I agree. If I can't do it Amicably then I will have to shell out the big bucks (which I will if I must) I have spoken to 4 so far and have another 3 that I am going to interview this week.

[midjd]

I agree that a good attorney is worth his/her weight in gold. Just remember to use your attorney's time (and therefore your money) wisely - have your thoughts/questions organized when you call or visit, don't dwell on feelings or emotions (use a therapist for that), and don't call multiple times per day. If you think of a question, write it down - then check in maybe once per week and get all your questions/comments out. Otherwise you'll be billed 0.1 hours for every 5-minute phone call...

And good luck!

[jospaced]

midwest makes a good point. As my attorney pointed out, don't fight over furniture and other stuff; it will cost more than it's worth.

[Gardening Grandma]

midwesternjd's advice is very similar to what I told my son. Don't be calling the attorney every time a question arises. Write it down. When you are with the attorney, take notes. They will give you a lot of information in a very short time and you won't remember it all.

Divorce can be very expensive unless both parties are reasonable. But if you don't stand up for yourself, you can lose a lot more than $5000.

[IPAfan]

I'd advise that you call one or two respected attorneys in town who DO NOT PRACTICE FAMILY LAW. Don't look for the ones with the biggest ads. Look for attorneys that practice one area of law other than family law. Ask for referrals to good family attorneys.

I don't practice family law, but in my particular town I can help people separate the wheat from the chaff. There's a lot of lawyers that take anything from personal injury to family to criminal. Don't hire one of these lawyers unless you're SURE they're going to do a good job (there are some lawyers who do lots of different types of law competently, but not that many in my experience).

[qofcc]

When I got divorced 15 years ago, I used a do-it-yourself "kit" for $300 and the free notary at the bank. I had free phone consultations from 2 lawyers who told me that if I got a lawyer, the court would appoint a free one for him and my bill would be at least $5k. I could also end up paying alimony and having to share physical custody. They said if I could draw up papers and get him to sign them and mail everything in to the court without letting him in front of a judge, I'd do much better. He had already taken most of the stuff from the apartment and emptied the bank account, but we didn't have a lot of money, so I didn't fight him on anything. We set visitation to be "at the convenience of both parties" and much of the time he didn't bother. He made a big deal about having joint legal custody, but he never exercised his right to decision making and when I registered the kids for school and stuff, when they asked me if I had full custody, I just said yes and never had to prove anything.

This probably wouldn't work in your case, you wife is probably not as dumb as my ex, but if the point is that lots of time people fight over stuff and it's just not worth fighting over. Also, a lot of time parents fight to have "rights" over their kids, because they feel like people expect them to, but then they don't exercise those rights because they don't actually want to spend time or make decisions, they just want to be ALLOWED to.

Figure out your bottom line of what you won't compromise on and give in on all the rest. It will be cheaper and quicker in the long run.

[midjd]

It depends on your assets. If you don't have much, a DIY kit might be fine. (DH was married for 4 months at age 21 and they did their divorce themselves - easy peasy and cost <$200). But if you own property, retirement accounts, joint debt, etc., as it sounds like CME does, you're definitely better off getting an attorney.

[8 Bit WWBG]

Good luck CME. I'm glad that you are moving on and getting yourself what you need. I hope your kid will end up the better for it.

[cme1201]

Thanks guys. The idea of talking to a lawyer not in FL might help me here, I never thought I'd be here so all I did was call the first 10 attorneys under family law and made appointments. Most have been OK, one was a real sleaze, other than that, I just have to save a little more.

[swamp]

Jun 8, 2011 10:19:16 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Thanks guys. The idea of talking to a lawyer not in FL might help me here, I never thought I'd be here so all I did was call the first 10 attorneys under family law and made appointments. Most have been OK, one was a real sleaze, other than that, I just have to save a little more.

Beware of an attorney who promises you a certain outcome. They're lying.

[commentator]

Keep in mind that a divorce has no immediate tax implications. That is, no one reports a gain or loss on a property settlement incident to divorce.

Property allocated to one spouse in the settlement takes with it all the tax attributes (basis, holding period, etc). So that spouse reports the gain or loss, if any, when an asset is ultimately disposed of.

Typical complications are the primary residence and pension funds. If these exist, qualified tax advice from a knowledgable professional is crucial. Competent tax advice maybe needed for other assets as well. Divorce attornies, sadly, too often lack the needed tax expertise.

[swamp]

Jun 8, 2011 7:14:31 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

5000 retainer, If wife is amicable I can get away with less, if she wants to fight can be as high as 15k+.

I need a new career.

As an attorney who used to do divorces, I can tell you to keep your job. Doing divorces sucks because many clients expect you to work miracles and won't be happy until the other party is dead. They also treat you as their therapists. There are also the people who want to spend $3,000 fighting over $300 worth of crap. It's not a pleasant job.

[swamp]

Jun 8, 2011 10:26:55 GMT -5 @commentator said:

qualified tax advice from a knowledgable professional is crucial. Competent tax advice maybe needed for other assets as well. Divorce attornies, sadly, too often lack the needed tax expertise.

I know enough about tax law to know I don't know anything about tax law, tell my clients as such, and refer them to a CPA. Some take my advice, some don't.

[sheilaincali]

I have to agree with the others about their comments.
Communicating with your lawyer- my STBEx-SIL blew through her retainer by whining to her lawyer about everything. She would call him if she asked DBro for grocery money and he gave her a gc to the grocery store instead of cash. She thought that should be illegal. When DBro found her in the house with a bag full of stuff and he asked for an inventory of what she was taking (because the lawyer said to keep an inventory of who had what) she refused and called the cops. This has been going on since Thanksgiving 2009. They still aren't divorced.

When a friend was about to go through a divorce and messy custody battle (he has full custody now) his dad asked every lawyer he knew who they would recommend. They all came back with the same name. She is the same lawyer representing my brother now as well. Getting referrals from other attorney's seems to be a smart way to go.

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2011 8:49:01 GMT -5 midjd said:

It depends on your assets. If you don't have much, a DIY kit might be fine. (DH was married for 4 months at age 21 and they did their divorce themselves - easy peasy and cost <$200). But if you own property, retirement accounts, joint debt, etc., as it sounds like CME does, you're definitely better off getting an attorney.

not to mention if the custody of the children in going to be in contention.....I don't think she's going to give up custody without a fight, epecially if it means she'll have to pay child support.

[cme1201]

Jun 8, 2011 10:47:33 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Jun 8, 2011 8:49:01 GMT -5 midjd said:

not to mention if the custody of the children in going to be in contention.....I don't think she's going to give up custody without a fight, epecially if it means she'll have to pay child support.

That is the only real point of contention and why I want an attorney, I have been dad for many years (cooking, cleaning, taking care of) and I WILL NOT be regulated to weekend dad or monthly dad

[thyme4change]

It depends on your assets. If you don't have much, a DIY kit might be fine. (DH was married for 4 months at age 21 and they did their divorce themselves - easy peasy and cost <$200). But if you own property, retirement accounts, joint debt, etc., as it sounds like CME does, you're definitely better off getting an attorney.

Splitting up property and even debt is easy, if both parties agree. You only need a lawyer if the two parties can't come to reasonable agreement. Custody can be a killer. And certainly, a spouse who wants 100% of the assets, 0% of the debt, and alimony - yeah, that is a tough one too.

I've had several friends split all sorts of financial things - retirement, property, debt, etc, just by sitting down with their statements (bank, etc.), a piece of paper and a calculator.

[qofcc]

That is the only real point of contention and why I want an attorney, I have been dad for many years (cooking, cleaning, taking care of) and I WILL NOT be regulated to weekend dad or monthly dad

Does she want to prevent you from doing those things or does she just want "Custody" so she can get child support.

[bring in the new year]

cme,

This may not work for you. I agree there's nothing more expensive than a cheap attorney so if you think she's going to be difficult , spend the money. Everyone's hints sounded sensible to me.

But I have heard in my area of family mediators - basically cheaper than attorneys, their job is to keep you on track and not look for fault. (Mediators might not be the right term - but I think it is.) Because they're not looking for fault and I believe it's a flat rate, there's no benefit in them going after your STB ex.

Also, Jane Bryant Quinn has a check list for divorce in her "Making the Most of your Money" book which you might find helpful.

[cme1201]

Jun 8, 2011 12:48:54 GMT -5 qofcc said:

That is the only real point of contention and why I want an attorney, I have been dad for many years (cooking, cleaning, taking care of) and I WILL NOT be regulated to weekend dad or monthly dad

Does she want to prevent you from doing those things or does she just want "Custody" so she can get child support.

Yea they are "her" kids a gift she "gave" me. I have heard that line more than I care to remember, she's the virgin mary and all just had them herself no man was needed.

[cme1201]

bridgetc,

Thank you, I may look into finding that book.

[zibazinski]

I hope you got a woman and I hope she has a reputation for being a bitch. Mine was both and that was all my ex's lawyer knew and his lawyer laid over like a dog before the fight even started. I wrote down what I wanted and I got it. At least on paper. He whimpered about wanting the kids, I told him to take them and I'd pay a few hundred a month and see tham when it fit into my lifestyle. He backed off after that. Seems I grew the pair I didn't have during the marriage during the divorce.