alabamagal
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Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 6, 2011 15:44:08 GMT -5
DH - I was in the same situation job wise for a couple of years, working for a defense contractor who billed my time to the government. I actually worked directly with goverment employees and I would practically beg for something more to do, just to keep me busy. I did everything I was asked, and everyone said I was doing a super job, but I was still totally bored most of the time. Everyone uderstands the stress of having a job that is 60-80 hours a week, but it is also stressful to not have enough to do during the day and be totally bored. The day goes by SOOO SLOW.
If you started taking classes and could do most of the studying while at work, I would certainly recommend it. If nothing else, it would keep you more occupied during the day. In addition to pursuing the GI Bill, work reimbursement, also understand that the American Opportunity Credit is available for at least the next 2 years. It is hard to find information on it, even the IRS website has not been updated with the 2 year extension. This credit covers the first $2000 of tuition, fees and books at 100% and the next $2000 at 25% (I think). Since it is a credit, the first $2000 comes directly off your tax bill. This would be any money above GI bill or tuition reimbursement. It is available up to gross incomes of $160k for married couples.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 5, 2024 7:14:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 15:46:06 GMT -5
Defense contractors on the other hand, especially service based ones, work more like a temp agency. A government organization, say the Social Security Administration, needs to maintain a huge computer system to run that program. They're never going back to the days of having thousands of file clerks update paper records in some massive warehouse somewhere. It's just not going to happen. So, they need computer experts to maintain a huge database that tracks everyone's contributions, their SS eligibility, sends the checks, and those benefit statements we all get near our birthdays. This system needs to be very secure, for obvious reasons. The government decides that there aren't people in the civil service system with the expertise needed to build, maintain, and upgrade that system, so they let private companies bid on providing that service, and sign a contract with one. These contracts are usually 3-5 years, but at the end of that period they put a new one out for bid and it almost always goes to the company already providing the service. See, they're allowed to give special consideration to the company already working for them if they can justify it (not that anyone really looks all that closely at how they justify it), meaning that company doesn't have to be the lowest bid at contract renewal time. The way these contracts work is that the company providing the service gets to bill the agency for X number of full time workers. So my boss hires me, he pays me $50/hour plus benefits. He then bills the agency $150/hour for my 40 hours a week of work. I'm the product, not an employee. My boss doesn't necessarily care whether or not I'm busy, fully utilized, or any of that other crap. All he cares about are that I'm here putting in my 40 hours a week so they can be billed to the agency which lets the company make $4k a week (just making up round numbers here, I'm not sure what my billable rate is at the moment). Well that and that the agency is happy with the service they're getting so they re-up the contract with us when it expires. The company makes the same amount off my labor whether I'm here busting my butt all day everyday, or sitting here staring out the window while drooling on myself. It's actually in their best interest to have too many people on the contract compared to the workload since they're billing by the hour for each body, not by the amount of work that gets done, by the project, or anything else that would encourage them to save the agency money. It's a pretty fraked system Are you willing to bet this is going to continue indefinitely? I may be in the minority, but I think defence is in a bubble and I would be setting myself up to weather the pop.
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Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 6, 2011 16:15:27 GMT -5
Are you willing to bet this is going to continue indefinitely? I may be in the minority, but I think defence is in a bubble and I would be setting myself up to weather the pop. I hope not. I actually agree with you completely. Defense being a third rail budget wise is going to have to change at some point, and my money is on that happening sooner rather than later. The potential savings with no real downside, other than to us overpaid and underworked contractors and civil servants of course, is just too damn big. I was just pointing out that my supervisors and the company I work for don't really care about fully utilizing me on a day to day basis. Because of the way the system is set up currently the only incentive they have is to make sure I'm sitting here billing 40 hours a week to the agency, and that the agency likes the work we provide. That's it. If both of those criteria are met there's no incentive to care about anything beyond that.
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Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 6, 2011 16:18:47 GMT -5
Will more education lead to even more cube life but maybe now with a nice view and Swingline stapler? I've already got the view. As I type this I can turn my head and see almost the entire Monterey Bay... or I could if it wasn't foggy on the Santa Cruz side right now.
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shanendoah
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Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 6, 2011 16:27:44 GMT -5
Dark: Are you anywhere near Moro Bay... What you do sounds a lot like what my brother does, though he's now doing it in Australia. (And I guess you can't be doing exactly what he did, because they were planning on closing their CA location and moving to HI).
Still, your comment about work needing to change frequently is actually why I think you'd do well in Project Management. When the project changes, so do parts (but not all) of your job. And at the very least, your learning something new with every project.
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Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 6, 2011 16:40:37 GMT -5
Moro Bay is down south of here, maybe 80 miles or so I think.
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Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 6, 2011 17:02:07 GMT -5
"I hope not. I actually agree with you completely. Defense being a third rail budget wise is going to have to change at some point, and my money is on that happening sooner rather than later. The potential savings with no real downside, other than to us overpaid and underworked contractors and civil servants of course, is just too damn big."
Yeah, the rumors coming down from the top is that things are going to get brutal for the executive branch. Despite civil servants only making up 12% of the overall budget, they want to take all the budget cuts out on us while leading the read behemthos (SS, Medicaide, medicare) alone. I think Defense is an area that will no longer be a third rail for spending, and one of the first places they cut is contracts.
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Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 6, 2011 17:13:37 GMT -5
I agree, but if they all the contractors they'll still have the computer systems, and they'll still need people to maintain them. Who do you think they're going to offer those jobs too? My money is on all the contractors that built those systems and work with them everyday. I might be OK with a paycut and civil servant retirement package. It'll beat the hell out my 4% 401k match. Depending on the pay cut of course. I can always commute in and work for Oracle or Google if the agency is too cheap to pay me a decent wage.
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Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 6, 2011 17:28:44 GMT -5
"I agree, but if they all the contractors they'll still have the computer systems, and they'll still need people to maintain them. Who do you think they're going to offer those jobs too? My money is on all the contractors that built those systems and work with them everyday. I might be OK with a paycut and civil servant retirement package. It'll beat the hell out my 4% 401k match. Depending on the pay cut of course. I can always commute in and work for Oracle or Google if the agency is too cheap to pay me a decent wage."
I'm not sure. I don't know how important the computer systems you work on are, but they are planning on cutting entire programs. Assuming your computer systems are vital, I think they'll do one of two things.
1. End the contract and hire on the contractors as civil servants. Numerous government studies have shown that as long as there's consistant work it's cheaper to do it in house than through contractors. Plus they don't have to hire everyone and can just hire the minimum they need.
2. Play hardball on the contract and start going to lower bidders who have fewer employees and fewer billable hours.
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Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 6, 2011 17:36:05 GMT -5
I don't want to tell everyone the exact agency I work for and the project I'm on, but this system isn't going anywhere. I may or may not be involved in running it, but the system will stay around.
Do those studies factor in providing a pension and medical care in retirement? I'm sure I probably cost more to employ on a day to day basis than I would as a civil servant, but they also don't have to cover a single cent towards my pension or health care. That saves some money now, and a lot of money later.
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Post by bobbysgirl on Jun 6, 2011 18:57:33 GMT -5
Deleted due to error. Not sure if it was mine or the program.
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Post by bobbysgirl on Jun 6, 2011 19:33:25 GMT -5
Welcome to the world of responsibility. You appear to be at a crossroad. You have a family that depends on you. You made commitments. Keeping them is the hard part. A person puts one foot in front of the other and just keeps going. Weekends come soon enough.
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ltdan
New Member
Joined: Apr 18, 2011 7:28:08 GMT -5
Posts: 39
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Post by ltdan on Jun 7, 2011 13:03:37 GMT -5
I was in a very similar situation. Bored with the job, and slowly assimilating into an office drone. I took graduate courses at night, and eventually earned another degree. When that didn't really do much to help my career or combat my boredom, I joined the Reserves.
Other than something drastic like that, I agree with everyone else to enjoy the ride, spend time with the family, and enjoy your hobbies!
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