henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 3, 2011 19:22:58 GMT -5
Henry if your looking to get into it with me, I pass...if you believe my use of the word "Doll " is disrespectful, you are [image] , and for your information, there is no family connection here, just the best friend of Kricketts daughter.
Why not go along now and play but don't get the clothes dirty, think your going visiting with the folks.. If you passed it was the way you do everything else, in words that contradict yourself. A pass is a pass, not a paragraph of advice. You might use that advice and think about your words. In particular, if it's not your family it must be somebody else's. So, is it your family you made the condescending remarks about? And if you don't mind other people reading your mail and commenting on it, go right ahead and put it up for people to read. Most of it will probably get read. Some of it may get commented on. If you have a problem with having comments made about it, you have a problem. Why is it that you make smart with everybody who makes a comment about your ego? Your ego is hot air and wouldn't stand up without props. Now, I'll take your advice and go play. And I'll remind you about your having said you weren't going to play. But, we'll see if you meant it.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 3, 2011 20:16:15 GMT -5
don't think there WOULD be accurate statistics of women in the military who obtain abortions (due to rape or any other reason), since these procedures would inevitably be occurring off-base in civilian facilities.
Molly are you absolutely sure about this?? I would be very interested because I think I read on a military blog that the number was @1200 in 2009 but not sure if that is accurate or not?? And it was by service with the Army having the largest percentage of women who obtained abortions..
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jun 3, 2011 22:58:01 GMT -5
I am a female who served in the Air Force late 80's to early 90's. I was sexually harassed for two years by a surgeon (major) and I came close to being sexually violated (was able to convince him to stop) I was in tech school during the almost attack and I was afraid to report it (I was only 19) And in the harassment case, I was advised by my first sergeant to "let it go" or I would end up in correctional custody for accusing an officer of harassment. This is a problem in the military I am sad to say.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Sarcasm is my Superpower
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jun 3, 2011 23:56:54 GMT -5
don't think there WOULD be accurate statistics of women in the military who obtain abortions (due to rape or any other reason), since these procedures would inevitably be occurring off-base in civilian facilities.Molly are you absolutely sure about this?? I would be very interested because I think I read on a military blog that the number was @1200 in 2009 but not sure if that is accurate or not?? And it was by service with the Army having the largest percentage of women who obtained abortions.. No, I'm not sure ... that's just my assumption. While there are statistics, certainly, I'm just not sure that they would be completely accurate. After all, a certain number of rapes (military or civilian) go unreported, and some women don't want to advertise if they've chosen to obtain an abortion (whether or not resulting from rape.) So I'm thinking that the statistics are incomplete.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 4, 2011 0:36:57 GMT -5
I am a female who served in the Air Force late 80's to early 90's. I was sexually harassed for two years by a surgeon (major) and I came close to being sexually violated (was able to convince him to stop) I was in tech school during the almost attack and I was afraid to report it (I was only 19) And in the harassment case, I was advised by my first sergeant to "let it go" or I would end up in correctional custody for accusing an officer of harassment. This is a problem in the military I am sad to say. I am very sorry for your experienced and as former military I am shamed that you had that experience, and yet I am not surprised your first Sgt told you that. Whether it was true or not, possible he/she was trying to cull favors, didn't want the bad publicity, but at 19, your going to go against your first Sgt? To battle about questionable stats, possibility of this or that, doesn't diminish the fact that there is a problem, not a small one. My only experience recently where this came up, a simple conversation with a bright woman, newly minted medical doctor, who is looking at $450,000 debt for schooling and I just suggesting to explore , San Antonio not that far from her, hugh Military medical facility there , plenty of the right people to talk to to investigate the options , see what they would offer, but the reputation of the problem, even being out of the country five years, except for short periods in the summer, wouldn't even investigate. She would not want to put her self into harms way, and I am not referring to military action harms way. You would think military service it would NOT be that way,. The discipline, the punishments, the training, the Es Pre DE Core... you have trained people, physically male , female, self defense, weapons, yet with all that it is a big problem. In civilian life, one can just leave a job if harrassed and sexually threatened but not willing to go through what it takes to press charges, complaints, just leave the job. The military, of course not, one just does not up and leave with the provebial cry of take this job... One can carry a weapon as a civilien , military can't, civilian can own weapons, technically military , on base you can't. Yes plenty of weapons but you can't get to them till issued, and definitely if lower enlisted , out of the question, any access to them for protection, only protection, superiors but when superiors won't help, afraid to, to much trouble, possible side with the guilty party....
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 4, 2011 2:25:09 GMT -5
One can carry a weapon as a civilien , military can't, civilian can own weapons, technically military , on base you can't. Yes plenty of weapons but you can't get to them till issued, and definitely if lower enlisted , out of the question, any access to them for protection, only protection, superiors but when superiors won't help, afraid to, to much trouble, possible side with the guilty party Hogwash. Pure tripe. The poster is probably the most sincere member on this board, but some of the misinformation that can be seen under the user's name is honestly mind boggling. It just goes on and on and on and never seems to end. Lower enlisted can't own a weapon. . . .superiors won't help , , ,afraid to , , ,to, (sic), much trouble, , , possibly side with the guilty party . . . Ye gods what has our armed forces come to? What kind of mob rule do we have wearing the country's uniforms today? "Superiors would side with the guilty party?" That one all by itself could be the catalyst as the subject of an entire course in leadership ethics. But on second thought, there was one comment the poster made that may be enlightening. The thread was about collecting government benefits. The comment read, as close as I can remember, something like, "I'd lie through my teeth". It's almost enough to make a person think this is a bad dream. But then again, the poster does have a habit of coming back after some wild postings and say it was all tongue in cheek. Yeah. That must be it. Surely that's what'll happen here, too . . . . .
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 4, 2011 5:49:47 GMT -5
No, I'm not sure ... that's just my assumption. While there are statistics, certainly, I'm just not sure that they would be completely accurate. After all, a certain number of rapes (military or civilian) go unreported, and some women don't want to advertise if they've chosen to obtain an abortion (whether or not resulting from rape.)
So I'm thinking that the statistics are incomplete.[/quote][/color]
Ok Molly I am just trying to understand if this is in fact a serious issue in the military or not? I am not that familiar with Congresswoman Susan Davis from San Diego CA., but Congresswoman Jackie Spirier is very well respected in the SF Bay Area for a lady who has only been in congress for @ two years.
I personally think our military today is awesome and do an excellent job to defend and serve our nation with little or no recognition so when I read an email sent out by one of our congresswoman in CA I had to be wondering about how big a problem do we have in our military.. I know from personal experience congresswoman Pat Schroeder liked to exaggerate issues in the military and was extremely critical of the military so called "Old Boys" Club in the Pentagon.. So let's hope for the good of the military that Ms Davis is not another Ms Schroeder IMHO
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 4, 2011 6:06:20 GMT -5
Hey Henry FYI
I think we need to hear from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs or the SecDef on this issue or what they plan to do about it if in fact we have a major issue in the military....I just don't know to be perfectly honest and hope it is not another issue being blown out of all proportions IMHO
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 4, 2011 8:25:52 GMT -5
I am not sure if the chairman has commentated on it...would have to google, however when they spend time and effort by having congressional hearings on a topic there usually is some fire where the smoke is coming from. Here is one report, I will go back and get few more for you, does anyone know how one cut/past more then one link at a time, I don't and it is a pain, I know it can be done but not for me..such a computer doofus. ------------------------------------------------------ www.ncdsv.org/images/House%20Subcommittee%20Examines%20Sex%20Assault%20in%20the%20Military.pdf---------------------------------------------------------- Granted it's a 2005 report..but I found more recent too...no change , even more alarming.Sorry about this, I am not happy either to read this..had no clue till a few years ago, but to say it's not really a REAL BIG problem, I am afraid from what I am reading , it's kind of up there.. IMHO. ------------------------------------------------------- "Christine Hansen, executive director of the Miles Foundation, cited DoD statistics that acknowledge 2,374 reported cases of sexual assault in 2005, an increase of 40 percent over 2004. Military criminal investigators handled 1,474 cases of sexual misconduct during 2005, with 274 alleged offenders being disciplined, 79 by court-martial. Additionally, she noted, “Among women veterans seeking Veterans Administration disability benefits, 69 percent of combat veterans and 86 percent of noncombat veterans reported in-service or post-service sexual assault. The study concluded that sexual assault prevalence was three to ten times higher for females serving in the armed forces than for females in the general population.” Ms. Hansen listed numerous concerns, such as fear of reporting incidents due to the fear of reprisals; limited medical support and treatment for military rape victims, especially for those serving in combat zones; the lack of a service-wide data collection system; and limited access to a civilian investigation. She also pointed out that, although more than 25 task forces, commissions, and panels have been established in recent years, not one has included a victim of sexual assault in the military." --------------------------------------------------- Rather then bring up individual links, just try hitting on this one..it will take you to a whole slew..dates of the articles, 2009, 2010....AND 2011. Do some reading, dismiss the ones you don't like but I have a feeling you will go from one to another and just sit there shaking your head, possible saying, "Damn, had no clue, it wasn't this while I served was it...never heard of this , just the jokes when the soap was dropped in the communal showers as we nervously laughed, however..." ------------------------------------------------------- www.good50.com/search.html?cx=partner-pub-8901060649504376%3Ah6dhu7bwwxk&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=sexual+attacks+on+female+military+members+by+fellow+military+personnel&sa=Go&sitesearch=#1146--------------------------------------------------------- "I personally think our military today is awesome and do an excellent job to defend and serve our nation with little or no recognition " Absolutely and I believe ., I know, the general public is more/very appreciative of our military then it was before, especially the one I experienced, just watch the continuous honor paid to them at public gatherings, ball games, when they walk among us in their Cammy's[encouraged by the military by the way to show the populace they are here protecting us] more camo's then the class A's, which my group was discouraged from wearing if possible as we traveled amoung the populace, to avoid confrontation, a big positive difference. [This one in coming home, he had a chip on his shoulder and was P off so wore every damn piece of hardware just hoping to meet some one who wanted to spit at him and the uniform, very young, stupid..looking to get it on. Alas ,all he met were folks who were helpful, opened doors as he struggled with duffel, bag, one young sailor actually carrying to train, settling him in, shaking his hand as he parted. Real bummer, people were so nice, damn.] ------------------------------------------ This is a problem , no matter how many links we look for , it comes out a small thing it is not. That you posted the E mail P.I. is a good thing, I am thinking it was not easy to post for you, knowing your feeling toward our military , airing dirty laundry , never good or easy. Yet we owe it to those who serve and who experienced these events, like one of our own here who posted her experiences. Whether she is so vocal in her real life as she was here, were she is incognito, I don't know, but don't we owe it to her and others , her sisters, to acknowledge the problem and by knowing about it, be able to support those, as the two Congressionals, in doing all they/we can to bring awareness to the problem. To work to end the problem to the point that it will not be the big problem it is so those daughters, grand daughters , daughters of friends , relatives , strangers who opt for this kind of service will face only those stresses and dangers that one would expect in that profession, isn't that a good thing? Not to allow this sinister one that is lurking in the back ground that has been swept under the rug, there but no one is talking about, till out of the blue, unexpectedly it rears itself and attacks these brave young people. By being aware, vocal about it, acknowledging it ansd inssiting tyhose who perpetrate these acts, they are punished severly ansd if one organization who knows how to do a punishment that gets one attention, where else but our Military, if the will is there from the top. Some howthe old adage S runs downhill, and it runs fast when th etop is P and interested, it gets all the way to the bottopm rung very quickly. The top is very aware of the publics feelings and if it doesn' affect the mission they will do all to satisfy those concerns IMHO, thus public awareness and interest in solving this problem, very important and by know about it , that's more then half way to a solution of it. Again, IMHO.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jun 4, 2011 17:30:12 GMT -5
P.I. Short answers are usually just sound bites anyway so while I have an answer it is not a short one. Sexual assault is a criminal act. We all know that. The victim has a right to everything the legal, , , AND medical professions can provide. We all know that, too. The part that is overlooked is that the victim has not only been violated, but is also the one most under a microscope. Just when the thing needed may be solitude and privacy, there s none. The microscope may not even be operated by someone who can provide the needed help. It may just be gawkers with a morbid curiosity or grizzly news hounds. It may be skeptical legal investigators with intrusive and accusatory comments and questions. I have heard that most sexual assaults go unreported. I don't doubt it and I don't wonder why either. There were Congressional hearings in 2008, and again in 2009 and the most that was done was darts were thrown to make political points. I think more emphasis should be placed on a reporting system that was initiated in 2005 by the DOD's Sexual Assault and Response Office. (SAPRO). They have formulated a reporting procedure for victims of sexual assault that should reduce the glare of publicity and still get the job done. In the end, it is really no different in the military than it is in civilian life insofar as whether such assaults occur. They do. How to react to them in the military environment while maintaining unit effectiveness is apparently still being learned. Challenges for Sexual Assault Victims
When a victim chooses the option of restricted reporting they can seek medical care without any details of the assault provided to a healthcare provider or other personnel being given to law enforcement. The sexual assault evidence is held for one year and victims can later convert to an unrestricted report and initiate an official investigation if they wish. Of the 1,896 restricted reports that DoD received by the end of FY 2007, 10 percent converted to unrestricted reports allowing an investigation.
Prior to implementing this option, sexual assault victims in the military could not access medical care or advocacy services without the involvement of law enforcement and the command. The lack of confidential reporting was believed by DoD to be a barrier for military sexual assault victims to receive medical care and report the crime.
Teresa Scalzo, senior policy advisor for SAPRO, told the subcommittee that one of the considerations in initiating the policy was honoring the victim’s privacy while making sure that commanders had the information they needed to keep others safe. In order to accomplish both, the commanders are given nonidentifying information about the sexual assault.
“In the military, it is a culture where commanders need to know, and they do know everything that is going on underneath them,” Scalzo said. “It was difficult to construct a system where we could protect the victims’ privacy, but yet give [commanders] just a little bit of information—Jane Doe information, nonidentifying information—that would enable them to keep the community safe.”
Scalzo said that there are challenges with restricted reporting that SAPRO is trying to address. For example, if a victim reports the sexual assault to a friend who then reports it to the commander, the commander would by law have to report the assault to law enforcement.
Another challenge for victims who would like to use restricted reporting is that some state laws only allow for unrestricted reporting. Victims in those states do not have the option to access private medical care and treatment, either on or off base, without triggering the involvement of law enforcement. California law, for example, requires healthcare providers to make a report to law enforcement when they treat a physical injury that was the result of an assault or abuse.
In her written testimony, Dr. Whitley said that there are also challenges in access to medical care for Reserve members who are sexually assaulted. Reserve members who are sexually assaulted when on active duty, but are no longer activated when they decide to make a restricted report, need a Line of Duty (LOD) determination before they can obtain access to care and treatment.
“The LOD is a process for determining whether a member of the Reserve component is eligible for medical care at government expense due to an injury or illness that was incurred or aggravated while in an ‘activated’ military duty status,” Dr. Whitley said in written testimony. “The LOD process requires an investigation and the involvement of command, which directly conflicts with restricted reporting. This limitation to access of care and treatment is inconsistent with the DoD sexual assault prevention and response policy on restricted reporting. We are in the process of eliminating this barrier to restricted reporting for the Guard and Reserves.”
For more information start here: www.usmedicine.com/articles/house-subcommittee-holds-hearing-on-sexual-assault-in-the-military.html
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 4, 2011 18:09:29 GMT -5
Thanx Henry ...I will try to see if Jakie Spirier addresses this subject again out here in the SF Bay Area.....I don't think she is the type of congresswoman to let an issue like this fall through the crack...or be swept under the rug... And she is one of the few members of congress who answers emails..
Bob Gates is retiring at the end of this month so maybe Ms Spirier and Ms Davis will try to get a meeting with his successor to discuss this issue.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jun 4, 2011 21:37:30 GMT -5
I am a female who served in the Air Force late 80's to early 90's. I was sexually harassed for two years by a surgeon (major) and I came close to being sexually violated (was able to convince him to stop) I was in tech school during the almost attack and I was afraid to report it (I was only 19) And in the harassment case, I was advised by my first sergeant to "let it go" or I would end up in correctional custody for accusing an officer of harassment. This is a problem in the military I am sad to say. I am very sorry for your experienced and as former military I am shamed that you had that experience, and yet I am not surprised your first Sgt told you that. Whether it was true or not, possible he/she was trying to cull favors, didn't want the bad publicity, but at 19, your going to go against your first Sgt? To battle about questionable stats, possibility of this or that, doesn't diminish the fact that there is a problem, not a small one. My only experience recently where this came up, a simple conversation with a bright woman, newly minted medical doctor, who is looking at $450,000 debt for schooling and I just suggesting to explore , San Antonio not that far from her, hugh Military medical facility there , plenty of the right people to talk to to investigate the options , see what they would offer, but the reputation of the problem, even being out of the country five years, except for short periods in the summer, wouldn't even investigate. She would not want to put her self into harms way, and I am not referring to military action harms way. You would think military service it would NOT be that way,. The discipline, the punishments, the training, the Es Pre DE Core... you have trained people, physically male , female, self defense, weapons, yet with all that it is a big problem. In civilian life, one can just leave a job if harrassed and sexually threatened but not willing to go through what it takes to press charges, complaints, just leave the job. The military, of course not, one just does not up and leave with the provebial cry of take this job... One can carry a weapon as a civilien , military can't, civilian can own weapons, technically military , on base you can't. Yes plenty of weapons but you can't get to them till issued, and definitely if lower enlisted , out of the question, any access to them for protection, only protection, superiors but when superiors won't help, afraid to, to much trouble, possible side with the guilty party.... Thanks dezi. It has been over 20 years but I remember it like it was yesterday.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 5, 2011 7:24:05 GMT -5
Thanks dezi. It has been over 20 years but I remember it like it was yesterday. [/quote][/color]
We all have memories of military days we can't forget Ma'am in all due respect.. But I would think you have moved on with your life and been successful..it you feel strongly about this issue you may want to visit Congresswoman Susan Davis' D. San Diego CA webpage and add your thoughts to her quest for changing legislature to deal with abortions in the Military..
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 5, 2011 10:21:26 GMT -5
There are memories of military life that most of the uncomfortable and painful ones are able to be put away , say in a room with a closed door.
We know they are there, we have examined them, most times with help from others , helped in most cases by professionals trained in this field and we have come to understand these uncomfortable remembrances in the context of how and why they happened.
What is most important for ones own sanity, we are made to realize any personal responsibilities of taking part in these occurrences and the happenings that happened, a lot of it was S happens, no personal choice in being where we might have been, split second reactions to happening that happened...and on and on..basically a way to deal with them and able to move on.
Then there are memories that have nothing to do with "military days ", nada, just memories that are imposed on some, and reactions from those who those affected by them , memories, incidents, when they reach out for support , help , direction, because of , lets face it , age 19., inexperience, away from family support, next best surrogate family member one to depend on for nurturing , actually instructed as one entered this group to call on for help if needed, support, hand holding, this case, first Sgt, fails in that role for what ever reason...these are memories that are hard to move on from.
The fact that one of one gender is not able to actually understand exactly the pain and suffering, memories still carried after 20 years, of one of another gender on incidents that in most case are those that affect only those of a particular gender is not unacceptable, a understandable fact that is explainable to me, but to come on with a suggest of ,
" OK , understand, so , so sorry, but time to suck it up, straighten up and get on with it ...no real biggie , it's not as if we all possible have a cross to bear, so that's yours, now get on with it "
..really off the wall compassion and understanding, and have no clue.
It seems the habeas that one took who suggested same for another, possible to get all the ducks in a row, really is BS, nothing learned at all, still the no clueless , no humor, arrogant ideas so to even consider such advice, now that would be idiotic.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jun 5, 2011 11:46:44 GMT -5
Thanks dezi. It has been over 20 years but I remember it like it was yesterday. [/color]We all have memories of military days we can't forget Ma'am in all due respect.. But I would think you have moved on with your life and been successful..it you feel strongly about this issue you may want to visit Congresswoman Susan Davis' D. San Diego CA webpage and add your thoughts to her quest for changing legislature to deal with abortions in the Military..[/quote] Yes we all have memories but im not sure that "we all" have memories of being sexually harassed or nearly raped in the military. You are right, I have moved on and I am quite sucessful. I only mentioned my experience as a female airman in response to this thread topic. Do not get me wrong. I absolutely adored serving, I do not regret it, and I would do it all over again. That does not take away what I went through and I am merely pointing out that yes, the problem does exist.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 5, 2011 12:10:02 GMT -5
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