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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Jun 3, 2011 9:24:49 GMT -5
This is how I see it, too and don't understand why everyone is so angry at the insurance companies. It's a business and a profit is to be expected. How about we blame it on all the claims we're all putting in.
How about we place, just a little blame on politicians that insist and mandate that a 50-60 year old single male have to buy pre-natal pregnacy/maternity coverage?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jun 3, 2011 9:50:01 GMT -5
Part of the problem is even calling it insurance, it is not actually insurance in the traditional sense. It is a 'health care payment system', and it encourages over use, just as a single payer government solution would.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 3, 2011 12:55:31 GMT -5
Health insurance companies have a profit margin of around 3%? I think it is the rising cost of health care and govt mandated coverage that drives health insurance premiums. This is how I see it, too and don't understand why everyone is so angry at the insurance companies. It's a business and a profit is to be expected. How about we blame it on all the claims we're all putting in. Forget the 3% profit if that is even what it is- it is the 25% or more administrative costs. The reform bill mandated it down to a 85% loss ratio- which will translate to 3% profit and 12% administration- still far higher than Medicaid runs- around 3% giving them a MLR of 97%. Insurance companies are the number one problem with our system- they are unnecessary and add complexity.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 3, 2011 12:58:48 GMT -5
Not to mention- the insurance companies are also the number one cause of the high cost of Medicare and Medicaid- the favorite dumping ground for unprofitable patients. They keep the gravy and throw the rest onto the taxpayers.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 3, 2011 13:51:33 GMT -5
Forget the 3% profit if that is even what it is- it is the 25% or more administrative costs. Where do you get your info from? The left leaning Politi-fact even shoots down that myth.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 3, 2011 13:55:29 GMT -5
They have to,otherwise premiums would be real high. The healthy subsidize the ill. Watch what happens if Ryans plan passes.The risk will be spread amoung all policyholders.At some point,employers will not want to play the game anymore and not offer coverage.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 3, 2011 14:12:10 GMT -5
We don't need the top or bottom floors- we don't need health insurance companies in this country at all. Small businesses have been getting screwed by health insurers for a long time- I can't see a single reason why a business owner would be opposed to a single payer plan like Canada. I'm a business owner and I DO NOT want a single payer plan like Canada's. Whatever the gov. does, they seem to eff it up and make it more expensive, so I see my taxes going higher than they already are. Furthermore, I live on the Canadian border and have seen the canadian system first hand. Our local hospital makes a ton of money off Canadians who pay cash for immediate health services instead of waiting. That safety valve wouldn't be there for us.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jun 3, 2011 14:13:01 GMT -5
For all of those who are opposed to some form of government health care reform and think that the health insurance companies can do a better job, cheaper, I say ha... I own a small business...my employee health insurance coverage is renewing in August.... The rate increased 19%..... and benefits were cut...... what other business can get away with increasing cost and decreasing services..... ridiculous..... status quo, that's the way to go...NOT.... arrghhhhh..... I am sure some will blame the President for the greed of these profits before care health insurance companies..... Actually, I blame the majority of the population with not having the common sense to stay healthy in the first place. Fast food, preservatives, refined sugars all equal higher health insurance cost. The more the population eats horrible food the more the sick people get= higher insurance cost. If very few people purchased ipads, do you think they would cost so much? Supply and demand. Forcing people into preventative maintenance or eating healthy is violating liberties, so our other choice is change plans like Obama's healthcare except we don't realize it is the stupidity of people or lack of available/affordable nutrition not the actual health care options.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jun 3, 2011 14:14:43 GMT -5
Blame the insurance companies all you want but you are misguided. The insurance industry is only reacting to the market place. An insurance exec or hospital exec. would be the greatest genius if they could get the profit margin up to 5%. If you want to place blame just look at the freeloader costs and constantly changing government regs that many do not do one thing to improve healthcare. Having been around the business for 40 years and have seen the system in constant flux. The idea that you are suddenly get the free loaders to pay for insurance is a pie in the sky dream. So that is a fixed loss that is never going away no matter what trhe plan. I seriously dobt that VT single payer plan will stand the economic strain very long unless major changes are made to fund healthcare. To date know one knows what that answer is.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 3, 2011 14:25:59 GMT -5
Blame the insurance companies all you want but you are misguided. The insurance industry is only reacting to the market place. An insurance exec or hospital exec. would be the greatest genius if they could get the profit margin up to 5%. If you want to place blame just look at the freeloader costs and constantly changing government regs that many do not do one thing to improve healthcare. Having been around the business for 40 years and have seen the system in constant flux. The idea that you are suddenly get the free loaders to pay for insurance is a pie in the sky dream. So that is a fixed loss that is never going away no matter what trhe plan. I seriously dobt that VT single payer plan will stand the economic strain very long unless major changes are made to fund healthcare. To date know one knows what that answer is. Blame the $6 Tylenol the hospital charges you as admitted patient. Or the $16,000 total bill for a 2-day stay. Hospitals have an even smaller profit margin than insurance companies, though. They have to pay for the salaries, equipment, utilities, etc. somehow. I really have no idea what the answer is. We expect top level care with the latest technology from highly trained professionals, but we don't want to pay for it.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 3, 2011 14:29:24 GMT -5
Our hospital isn't as nice as yours, and runs about a 1% profit, if they're lucky. I mean it looks nice enough, but it's no Taj Mahal.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jun 3, 2011 14:39:32 GMT -5
Blame the insurance companies all you want but you are misguided. The insurance industry is only reacting to the market place. An insurance exec or hospital exec. would be the greatest genius if they could get the profit margin up to 5%. If you want to place blame just look at the freeloader costs and constantly changing government regs that many do not do one thing to improve healthcare. Having been around the business for 40 years and have seen the system in constant flux. The idea that you are suddenly get the free loaders to pay for insurance is a pie in the sky dream. So that is a fixed loss that is never going away no matter what trhe plan. I seriously dobt that VT single payer plan will stand the economic strain very long unless major changes are made to fund healthcare. To date know one knows what that answer is. Blame the $6 Tylenol the hospital charges you as admitted patient. Or the $16,000 total bill for a 2-day stay. You could always just deal with the pain like they did back in the old days when health care was cheap with the local doctor? Or maybe have brain surgery with a scalpel, I am sure the doctors will do that for cheap with no promises that it would work of course. Heck just for my lasik eye surgery the doctor told me he payed over a million and a half for the newest technology(at the time). That is just one piece of equipment in a tiny office, I am just wondering how much a whole hospital would cost let alone the maintenance and upkeep. If anything go after the pharmaceutical companies you have more reason since they are the #1 lobbyist in Washington with huge profits.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 3, 2011 15:24:06 GMT -5
I'm a business owner and I DO NOT want a single payer plan like Canada's. Whatever the gov. does, they seem to eff it up and make it more expensive, so I see my taxes going higher than they already are. Furthermore, I live on the Canadian border and have seen the Canadian system first hand. Our local hospital makes a ton of money off Canadians who pay cash for immediate health services instead of waiting. That safety valve wouldn't be there for us. Canada seems to get a good deal for what they spend, as do the other single payer countries. Sure, some wealthy Canadians will pay to skip line- but for the majority of people who cannot pay out of pocket for treatments requiring a hospital, it works very well. I have friends in UHC countries- UK, Ireland, New Zealand and they are quite satisfied. If there is a better solution out there I would like to see it- everything else falls short. To fix Medicare everyone has to be on it or no one gets it. The republicans understand that- they want everyone in the private market- which will still require a mandate to work (so much for their 'plan'). It could work all private with proper regulation- I think there are a few UHC countries that use a heavily regulated private insurance model- Switzerland?- but in our overly greedy country it is going to be much too expensive, so my vote goes to putting everyone on Medicare from day 1 and tax accordingly to pay for it.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jun 3, 2011 15:50:25 GMT -5
I'm a business owner and I DO NOT want a single payer plan like Canada's. Whatever the gov. does, they seem to eff it up and make it more expensive, so I see my taxes going higher than they already are. Furthermore, I live on the Canadian border and have seen the Canadian system first hand. Our local hospital makes a ton of money off Canadians who pay cash for immediate health services instead of waiting. That safety valve wouldn't be there for us. Canada seems to get a good deal for what they spend, as do the other single payer countries. Sure, some wealthy Canadians will pay to skip line- but for the majority of people who cannot pay out of pocket for treatments requiring a hospital, it works very well. I have friends in UHC countries- UK, Ireland, New Zealand and they are quite satisfied. If there is a better solution out there I would like to see it- everything else falls short. To fix Medicare everyone has to be on it or no one gets it. The republicans understand that- they want everyone in the private market- which will still require a mandate to work (so much for their 'plan'). It could work all private with proper regulation- I think there are a few UHC countries that use a heavily regulated private insurance model- Switzerland?- but in our overly greedy country it is going to be much too expensive, so my vote goes to putting everyone on Medicare from day 1 and tax accordingly to pay for it. Those countries you mentioned have a tendency to have healthier diets and that is why it supposedly worked so well. I had a couple of foreign exchange buddies from France that didn't like it they said to much money was taken out for the value. You may want medicare from day 1, but I prefer people to be healthy by diet and exercise. Did you know we are all born with cancer, it is just how we go about maintaining our health that determines if it grows or not. Why even argue about what type of health care is better, it is like arguing two ways of being lazy or apathetic(still being lazy or apathetic no matter which choice).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 15:55:03 GMT -5
Repeal Obamacare.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 3, 2011 16:01:28 GMT -5
Why? Give one good reason.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jun 3, 2011 16:26:16 GMT -5
Why? Give one good reason. Health care isn't the problem it is the idiots that are constantly getting sick?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 3, 2011 18:36:22 GMT -5
27% of insurance spending in NOT on health care- if 3% is profit, a lot of the rest goes to ads (overmedication much?), salaries (millions for top execs much?- the free market is a total Pub mess...let the Dems handle this...
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jun 3, 2011 18:50:11 GMT -5
Well warsaw if you think the insurance companies overhead is to high now just wait till the new governments requirements for record keeping by the insurance companies, doctors and hospitals etc. That is going to add a load of expense on all of them.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 3, 2011 19:05:42 GMT -5
Electronic record keeping will save lots of money AND kill fraud. Let the Dems handle this (and everything else)... I was amazed to see a fair discussion about health care tonight on Fox (Brett Breight(?). Ryan was on and looked like a fear mongering flim flam man. All "bankruptcy" - CBO says Medicare would run out of money in 2024 (if NOTHING were done), and that Obamacare alone would save 200 billion in Medicare in 10 years...
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jun 3, 2011 19:48:59 GMT -5
How does electronic record keeping by the governments rules save money? Hospitals have had a system for years and now they must add a duplicate process. Doctors are having to buy expensive systems to meet the new rules and where do you think that money is going to come from? YOU. The idea that Obamacare will save 200 billion in medicare over 10 years is laughable. Even actuaries say that won't happen. The government has a system in place to detect fraud now but will not use it or inforce it.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 3, 2011 20:53:07 GMT -5
I'll go with the CBO over bought off Pub actuaries, thanx. Electronic medical records will stop duplication too. FINALLY some regulation to get costs under control...
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jun 3, 2011 21:39:19 GMT -5
There are multiple public companies that have their financials available online for everyone to see. Please find the one with a 25% admin cost. Almost, if not ALL health insurance companies already have at least 85% loss ratio. Those that don't might *might* have 80% or something like that. And your equation is wrong. The health insurance model is 85% benefits, 15% admin, 3% profit. Why, you ask does it equal more than 100%? 3% is the investment income earned between premium receipts and claim payments. 1965 - Medicare 1973 - HMO 2009 - Obamacare I think the Dems have done enough to royally f*** up the health care industry in the US. They've been trying for over 45 years to bring the industry down so they can implement a single payer; all along blaming the insurance industry for the woes in rising prices - even though public spending on health insurance has risen faster than private spending. You have no clue the regulation faced by the insurance industry already...which has been in place since the 1870's. The first intelligent thing you've said. Unfortunately, since the insurance companies have been so vilified and their profits are so low, they've been reluctant to change their old technologies since it costs a lot of money; money that they just don't have to invest in newer technologies. As for the loss ratio for Medicare - just a case of not understanding math: www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/medicare-administrative-costs-are-higher-not-lower-than-for-private-insurance
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 3, 2011 21:54:37 GMT -5
Sure 27% of spending NOT for care. Ridiculous. Health costs going up 15%/year, just fine? ;D
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 3, 2011 22:12:06 GMT -5
I don't consider Heritage a source for anything. All credible studies- medical journals,CBO,etc. show private insurance administrative costs are much higher than Medicare, single payer systems, and other UHC systems. US pays the most yet delivers shit for health care- private insurance needs to go- nothing but leeches that waste money for non-care and put up roadblocks for patients. Hopefully HCR's loss ratio mandate and other requirements forces a return of the public option and puts them out of business permanently.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 4, 2011 0:10:20 GMT -5
Neth. and Switz. have private insurance NHC- ours will suq more but still MUCH better than this Pubcrappe.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 4, 2011 8:02:43 GMT -5
We have one like that like that too.But it is private....non profit.... all the money has to go on the red side.....they are buying up land all over the area.
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