midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 2, 2011 9:56:59 GMT -5
Okay so I just got a call from my 21yo brother, who was excited as hell, telling me about this new opportunity he'd been offered. The more he explained it, the more the alarm bells started going off in my head.
It's definitely a MLM - you pay $275 to join, then $19 a month, and get $110 for everyone you recruit. (RED FLAG 1) I didn't want to say anything until I looked into it, but the company is Nussentials. The second Google auto-complete is "Nussentials pyramid." Bottom line, bad, baaaad idea.
I feel awful because he was SO excited about it. He is very easily influenced and is a pretty good target for this type of company - take him under your wing, make him feel good about himself, then fleece him out of all the cash he's got (which isn't much - he's in college). I'm about to call my mom just so she knows what's going on. Anything else I can/should do?
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Jun 2, 2011 9:58:33 GMT -5
Okay so I just got a call from my 21yo brother, who was excited as hell, telling me about this new opportunity he'd been offered. The more he explained it, the more the alarm bells started going off in my head. It's definitely a MLM - you pay $275 to join, then $19 a month, and get $110 for everyone you recruit. (RED FLAG 1) I didn't want to say anything until I looked into it, but the company is Nussentials. The second Google auto-complete is "Nussentials pyramid." Bottom line, bad, baaaad idea. I feel awful because he was SO excited about it. He is very easily influenced and is a pretty good target for this type of company - take him under your wing, make him feel good about himself, then fleece him out of all the cash he's got (which isn't much - he's in college). I'm about to call my mom just so she knows what's going on. Anything else I can/should do? Is it too late for him to get his money back?
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olderburgher
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Post by olderburgher on Jun 2, 2011 10:03:17 GMT -5
Try calling the consumer protection office in your state. Here it is attached to the Attorney General's Office
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 2, 2011 10:03:53 GMT -5
I don't *think* he's given any yet... he said "This is something I'm definitely going to do, you should too." I just got off the phone with my mom - she got the same excited phone call from him. I don't think she really knows how to handle it, either...
ETA - his permanent address is in one state, he's working in another state, and the company is in a third state (Florida). Which AG should he call? (I feel like I should know this).
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zippy478
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Post by zippy478 on Jun 2, 2011 10:06:03 GMT -5
Okay so I just got a call from my 21yo brother, who was excited as hell, telling me about this new opportunity he'd been offered. The more he explained it, the more the alarm bells started going off in my head. It's definitely a MLM - you pay $275 to join, then $19 a month, and get $110 for everyone you recruit. (RED FLAG 1) I didn't want to say anything until I looked into it, but the company is Nussentials. The second Google auto-complete is "Nussentials pyramid." Bottom line, bad, baaaad idea. I feel awful because he was SO excited about it. He is very easily influenced and is a pretty good target for this type of company - take him under your wing, make him feel good about himself, then fleece him out of all the cash he's got (which isn't much - he's in college). I'm about to call my mom just so she knows what's going on. Anything else I can/should do? Call him back and tell him what you found when you Googled it. He may or may not appreciate your input but at least you have tried. It might end up being one of those live and learn kinds of things for him though...good luck!
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Post by jospaced on Jun 2, 2011 10:09:21 GMT -5
I agree with zippy. Tell him what you know. His disappointment now will pale beside the end outcome if he goes through with this.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 2, 2011 10:15:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses. Someone here linked PinkTruth.com from a Mary Kay thread a few months ago, and I read through a lot of the old entries (I find the cult-like aspects of MLMs fascinating). There are people on there who devoted their LIVES to the "business" and are now bankrupt in their fifties, with no retirement savings. That's what scares me so much. If he's going to lose $275 and then see the light, well, that might be a good learning experience for him - but I know the longer he's in it, the harder it will be to escape. Sending him an email now. Ugh, this is hard. I hate having to burst his bubble (even though I know it will be worth it if it keeps him out)...
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 2, 2011 10:15:45 GMT -5
BF's Dad falls for these all the time and has for years. It's a hard lesson, but for some people, easily forgettable when the next "get rich quick" scheme comes around. Just be firm with your brother. Anytime BF's Dad calls all excited about the scam of the day, we send him scam links found with a quick google search, and he retorts with the positive PR posted on the MLM/pyramid web site, so, some people just want to live in denial. BF's Dad is way too trusting, so we have to be vigilant with him. He's always said that he doesn't want to live in a world where you can't trust people, I have to keep from saying that he should have offed himself years ago.
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Post by jospaced on Jun 2, 2011 10:21:58 GMT -5
My ex fell for every one of these that came along. That's a very big part of why he's my ex; I couldn't trust him not to be brainwashed by every scam that found its way to him. The worst was "Bull Investment Group", that wanted $5K from us for whoknowswhat. If I hadn't been there, he would have happily written a check. Some people just remain naive and think that get-rich-quick schemes are viable. ETA: He has been out of my life for many years now. We are now both close to retirement age, and I always wondered how he fared.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 2, 2011 10:27:04 GMT -5
He posted this on his Facebook about 30 minutes ago: "An amazing opportunity that will bring me generational wealth, along with helping others! No way you could turn this down!! Let's get involved!" I want to cry. And then I want to find the person who thinks it's OK to rope college students into this shit and kick him in the balls.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 2, 2011 10:29:45 GMT -5
ouch, jd. are you comfortable commenting on that FB post? I think an email is a great idea, and if you can comment on the FB post to alert anyone he might rope into it himself, that would be good too. good luck....
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Post by jospaced on Jun 2, 2011 10:30:14 GMT -5
midwest:
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 2, 2011 10:34:45 GMT -5
"An amazing opportunity that will bring me generational wealth, along with helping others! No way you could turn this down!! Let's get involved!"Could be worse, my brother has it in his head that he'll make his fortunes pot farming. Sounds like you tried but your brother is like my brother and believes EVERYONE but the person who is telling him the truth because he doesn't want to hear the truth. Your brother wants to hear that he will make lots of money, not that it is a ponzi scheme. It really stinks but it sounds like your brother may end up having to be one of those guys on the news complaining that he got ripped off by a poniz scheme. Hopefully it ends up being a $275 lesson. If not let's hope this is the ONLY costly lesson he will ever need.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 2, 2011 10:37:14 GMT -5
ouch, jd. are you comfortable commenting on that FB post? I think an email is a great idea, and if you can comment on the FB post to alert anyone he might rope into it himself, that would be good too. good luck.... I"d probably post a link on his wall showing it's a scam, but I'm not very nice sometimes.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 2, 2011 10:38:06 GMT -5
If he does this for a year and isn't able to recruit anyone, it could be the best $600 he ever spends.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 2, 2011 10:38:59 GMT -5
swamp, I would too....
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jun 2, 2011 10:41:35 GMT -5
Unfortunately this is just MLM and it is not illegal. And I am assuming the college age brother is 18 or older.
I would give him the facts, explain to him what he has gotten into and hopefully he will get over it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 2, 2011 10:47:57 GMT -5
Do you know anyone who has gotten involved in Amway at all? A friend of mine was doing Amway and was trying to recruit me. I wasn't interested, but was concerned for the friend, so I asked around and I got hilarious and clear stories. The best was the lady who listed off the friends who had tried to recruit her over the years - how she now knows what they are after within 3 seconds of their phone ringing, who was really tenacious, how those friendships soured when she didn't participate - and that not one of them had been successful at making any money. Another person said "Oh, you have a friend doing Amway - great! Buy me some toothpaste. I love their toothpaste, but everyone I know who gets involved gets out and I can never find a good supplier."
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 2, 2011 11:11:07 GMT -5
Do you know anyone who has gotten involved in Amway at all? A friend of mine was doing Amway and was trying to recruit me. I wasn't interested, but was concerned for the friend, so I asked around and I got hilarious and clear stories. The best was the lady who listed off the friends who had tried to recruit her over the years - how she now knows what they are after within 3 seconds of their phone ringing, who was really tenacious, how those friendships soured when she didn't participate - and that not one of them had been successful at making any money. Another person said "Oh, you have a friend doing Amway - great! Buy me some toothpaste. I love their toothpaste, but everyone I know who gets involved gets out and I can never find a good supplier." My Mom is not in Amway but she is in a similar MLM company. She is brainwashed that it is legit. They have scripts to respond to people's queries about pyramid schemes. I hate the constant pressure to use this product or that product. She once pretty much told me I got cancer because I did not use their nutrition products. Mom is 72 she should consider herself retired but she is still convinced she is going to make lots of money selling these products. I can buy similar stuff at Walgreen's for probably 1/3 the cost. ETA: If she was not my Mom, I would avoid her calls and block her e-mails.
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Post by jospaced on Jun 2, 2011 11:13:15 GMT -5
Do you know anyone who has gotten involved in Amway at all? A friend of mine was doing Amway and was trying to recruit me. I wasn't interested, but was concerned for the friend, so I asked around and I got hilarious and clear stories. The best was the lady who listed off the friends who had tried to recruit her over the years - how she now knows what they are after within 3 seconds of their phone ringing, who was really tenacious, how those friendships soured when she didn't participate - and that not one of them had been successful at making any money. Another person said "Oh, you have a friend doing Amway - great! Buy me some toothpaste. I love their toothpaste, but everyone I know who gets involved gets out and I can never find a good supplier." This is another scheme my ex wanted to participate in. I asked him who he was planning to sell to. He answered "my mother". Thank the financial gods that I saw the light early on and sent him packing.
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Post by jospaced on Jun 2, 2011 11:17:19 GMT -5
"An amazing opportunity that will bring me generational wealth, along with helping others! No way you could turn this down!! Let's get involved!"
That sounds like it's straight out of the ponzi scheme handbook.
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on Jun 2, 2011 11:54:57 GMT -5
OP, you didn't say how he was recruited.
The general rule of MLM recruiting is that if you can recruit others the same way you were recruited, then you might be successful. But, if you can't recruit in the same way you were recruited, then stay away.
For example, if you were recruited in the checkout line at the grocery by someone else in line who struck up a conversation, then you need to be comfortable striking up conversations with other people standing in line at grocery stores and selling them.
Or, if you were recruited at a hotel ballroom presentation, then you need to be able to conduct hotel ballroom presentations.
You get the drift.
Let the brother know this.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 2, 2011 12:00:45 GMT -5
forgive my ignorance, but what is MLM an acronym for? I see more people using it as the thread goes on. thanks!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 2, 2011 12:03:43 GMT -5
Multi-Level Marketing
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 2, 2011 12:08:17 GMT -5
...:::"take him under your wing, make him feel good about himself, then fleece him out of all the cash he's got":::...
I have honestly considered starting something like this, and college students make excellent targets because their youth and inexperience makes them believe that the "big score" is there for those young enough to "believe". Young people very much want to prove their elders wrong, and think that if they join one of these things everyone is telling them not to do, and make it big, that they'll get to give a big "I told ya so" to their parents.
The fact that this is now on his FB page means someone ELSE may do your dirty work for you. There are plenty of smart young people who recognize scams.
2kids makes a good point also. A recruiter would not recruit someone else who will dry up the recruiters pool.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Jun 2, 2011 12:39:41 GMT -5
Sorry your brother has gotten bitten by this bug. When I was young ( well, 35 years ago ), I joined Amway for two months. Haven't been back since. Very bad vibes and everyone acted stupid at the regional meetings. I remember sitting in the dark in the auditorium chanting, " I want to be weaallltthhhhyyyyy...." Also, I didn't like their hand soap. It smelled bad. But, I had that cool little $25 starter kit as a reminder not to be dumb again.....
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 2, 2011 13:05:07 GMT -5
Thanks again for the responses. I didn't comment on the FB post because I thought that would embarrass him (and possibly drive him in the opposite direction). I haven't heard back since I emailed him, but I expected that. I'm also going to talk to my sister about it - she is like a teenage Phil, so if anyone can convince him it's a stupid financial decision, it's her Drama, I've thought that our brothers were a lot alike based on some of your posts (remember karebear on MSN whose son was just always having the worst luck?) I love my brother and he has a very kind heart, but he is also a sucker for anything that will promise money with minimal effort. Bean, I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I think it is really a form of brainwashing sometimes. Plus once you've invested years in it, you can't bring yourself to think that you've been had... Does anyone watch Intervention? I keep thinking of that episode with the guy from North Carolina who was addicted to pills and those Nigerian bank schemes. He had pissed away $600K and almost lost his home (some family member bought it and rented it back to them). Even after that, he was still sending them money... you could tell some part of him suspected the truth, but he just couldn't accept it. 2kids, I think he was recruited by a customer (he is caddying at a country club this summer). The thing is, my brother is VERY charismatic and could probably get a few people to sign up - but from what I gather about MLM, at some point the recruiting becomes insufficient to cover your costs (unless you're recruiting dozens of people a week). WWBG, you'd better not start a MLM! (Though I thought the same thing about penny auction sites... easy money!)
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 2, 2011 13:14:05 GMT -5
Bah, I'm not working for my health. I too tried to join something like that in college -- one of those "stuff envelopes and make $1k/week". It was only $35, and it had a "risk free trial" although to get the money back, you had to demonstrate that you had really tried the method, which of course involved buying more stuff.
It taught me never to join one -- to make money, you have to be the top of the pyramid -- the one collecting checks, not sending them.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on Jun 2, 2011 14:08:35 GMT -5
It's definitely a MLM you pay $275 to join, then $19 a month, and get $110 for everyone you recruit. Quick clarification. One of the key differences between a valid MLM, multilevel structure vs. a Ponzi scheme is the PRODUCT (or lack thereof). Tupperware or Pampered Chef might use a multi level structure to divide up the profits from selling their kitchen gadgets. The major red flag for me was that your note doesn't even hint that there's a product involved. A true pyramid scheme is when there is no product, or that the product is irrelevant to the income stream.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 2, 2011 14:12:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification. I think there is a product - vitamins or something. My brother mentioned it as kind of an afterthought. I do tend to confuse MLM vs. Ponzi because they both seem pyramid-y to me... but I'll be more careful from now on ETA now I'm reminded of the scene from The Office where Michael Scott was recruited into something and was all excited, and drew out the corporate structure in a meeting, saying "See? It's not a pyramid scheme!" then Jim walked up and drew a triangle around it... Also wanted to add that the first red flag for me was that the second sentence out of my brother's mouth was "It's not a scam or a pyramid scheme or anything..." If you have to clarify it that early in the game, it probably is!
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