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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 26, 2011 9:59:34 GMT -5
Why not take it out of foreign aid?
While I would not say this is thinking outside the box, you've got a lot of support for that one. One does not really need to be smart and creative to see that one. It is so obvious.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 26, 2011 10:04:09 GMT -5
IN the spirit of "Just The Facts, Please"...I am offering up this correction to a recent thread...
In spite of a record $1.67 trillion projected deficit, Democrats refused to use just $1.5 billion of $25 billion from a 'green energy' initiative Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program at the Department of Energy to help disaster victims in Joplin, MO.
Democrats offered no alternative proposal, or offsets, and instead have demonized Eric Cantor, and Republicans for making the only suggestion that has been made to off-set the money needed for disaster relief choosing instead, I guess, to simply borrow ANOTHER $1.5 billion.
Lock it, merge it-- I don't really care, but I think this is a PERFECT example of why the stupid "Just the facts" headline rule is unenforceable. We all see things differently-- in truth, in our respective opinions, BOTH headlines are true.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 26, 2011 10:07:54 GMT -5
At least the two year treasury auction the other day was very successful. Things could be worse. Greece's govt bonds are yielding nearly 17% and are worse than junk status. The rest of Europe is junk status. The Fed Treasury can still borrow. But I digress.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 26, 2011 10:13:14 GMT -5
So, Lakhota, do you not believe in PAYGO rules??? Cantor picked a budget item that had a billion dollars in it...maybe you don't agree with his decision but you don't have his job. If you want to make the decision of which program to choose I suggest you start running for office...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 26, 2011 10:25:39 GMT -5
True, but honestly- how much longer do you think that's going to go on? How long could YOU run up your credit cards to this debt-to-income ratio and continue to ask for higher and higher limits? At some point, rates are going UP; and the cap we won't put on our own debt limit will be instituted FOR us by our creditors...but I digress...
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 26, 2011 10:30:34 GMT -5
So why was it not targeted?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 26, 2011 10:30:43 GMT -5
So, Lakhota, do you not believe in PAYGO rules??? Cantor picked a budget item that had a billion dollars in it...maybe you don't agree with his decision but you don't have his job. If you want to make the decision of which program to choose I suggest you start running for office... Yeah PAY-GO was demanded in Feb 2010 for a debt ceiling increase, Dems demanded it and used it to get blue dogs and moderate repubs on board with the plan. Remember Obama's words: It is a simple bedrock principel: Congress can only spend a dollar if it saves a dollar elsewhere. Or Bill Clinton speaking on Pay-Go to members of Congress: This is one of those things that has the benefit of being both symbolically and substantively beneficial www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/32537_Page2.htmlBut, as so ofton is the case, it's only good if used as a club against those who have an opposite opinion than yours. Perhaps this is one of those "unintended consequences" of political posturing, when it was demanded from the dems and placed into law they could not see that they are giving the exact same power to the opposite party when Democrats feel out of favor.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 26, 2011 10:34:51 GMT -5
You think that is why the Advanced Technology Vehicles program was targeted ?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 26, 2011 10:39:03 GMT -5
You think that is why the Advanced Technology Vehicles program was targeted ? It could have been targeted because that program was not needed as much as aid to MO??? Maybe???
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 26, 2011 10:41:05 GMT -5
Why not farm subsidies,bonuses to congresional staff members, the pentagon increase,foreign aid.....etc etc.... everything is on the table unless it is something our party is behind....
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 26, 2011 10:42:56 GMT -5
You think that is why the Advanced Technology Vehicles program was targeted ? No I think pulling 1/25th from the program (it's a loan program that was funded or brought into existence in Nov 2008, to push green technology) is smart. Government doesn't need to be involved with picking winners and losers in the world of private enterprise, offering more money (that we do not have) to the auto industries is not the role of government. 1/25th from the program, it's a good place to cut. Most foreign aid programs are speculated out: as in we are providing 800,000,000 million to Africa for aids relief over the next 10 years, so unless you reign in presidential promises and congressional posturing we will never cut foreign aid.
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Post by marshabar1 on May 26, 2011 10:45:24 GMT -5
You think that is why the Advanced Technology Vehicles program was targeted ? No I think pulling 1/25th from the program (it's a loan program that was funded or brought into existence in Nov 2008, to push green technology) is smart. Government doesn't need to be involved with picking winners and losers in the world of private enterprise, offering more money (that we do not have) to the auto industries is not the role of government. 1/25th from the program, it's a good place to cut. Most foreign aid programs are speculated out: as in we are providing 800,000,000 million to Africa for aids relief over the next 10 years, so unless you reign in presidential promises and congressional posturing we will never cut foreign aid. K cuz you're smart.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 26, 2011 10:48:36 GMT -5
I have no problem with the cut...I wish they would go after the ethonal subsidies,farm subsidies,etc...but there is wy too many campaign contributions and lobbiests involved for that,imo.
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on May 26, 2011 10:49:46 GMT -5
Since it is an emergency, you can always cut something out next week. Now's not the time to hold people hostage for political points. Because it's mostly a crass political maneuver. There's nothing wrong with that, but how about splitting it 50/50? Oh wait, that would be a shared sacrifice, and Republicans aren't into sharing. Remember everything's on the table, but ... Sure thing, right after you run for President... notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=politics&thread=8135&page=1Hey, you'll probably have just as much chance as anyone other Republican. For your slogan, how about; "a chicken in every pot meet kettle"?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 26, 2011 10:53:13 GMT -5
I have no problem with the cut...I wish they would go after the ethonal subsidies,farm subsidies,etc...but there is wy too many campaign contributions and lobbyists involved for that,imo. And you don't think there aren't plenty of lobbyist's for the auto industry?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 26, 2011 12:23:11 GMT -5
Why not farm subsidies,bonuses to congresional staff members, the pentagon increase,foreign aid.....etc etc.... everything is on the table unless it is something our party is behind.... Noble choices, but those would take time to argue and have bigger backlash from both sides. This program was a feel-good program that was given $25 Billion to basically piss away. Its most likely a slush account for some other department, anyway, so might as well take a small chunk of it for something that might actually make a difference. I'm sure there are plenty of programs that are similar and could have been raided for funds...but Cantor only needed one.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 26, 2011 12:36:14 GMT -5
First of all I'm not even sure why the federal government needs to provide any monetary relief to disaster areas. Don't insurance companies cover all if not most of the property damage?
That said, I don't think it's heartless to shift priorities from a boondoggle to people who really need the money.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 26, 2011 12:51:40 GMT -5
First of all I'm not even sure why the federal government needs to provide any monetary relief to disaster areas. Don't insurance companies cover all if not most of the property damage? I've asked that on other disasters too...what I usually get are answers that the insurance companies move to slow, or that they get a check from the insurance company but then say "now what?" I think some of this goes back to people being far too dependent on government. If government (feds) wasn't there every time, i think it would lead to better self-reliance among individuals and more cooperation/involvement among the communities. But the feds always have to swoop in, be the big savior and take charge...and that's why so many keep expecting it - and even demanding it, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 13:24:35 GMT -5
I don't even know why people are in an uproar over this. Those people need what they need now, and if the state has to step in taking money from a useless program makes sense to me. I know AZ has lots of Federal money tied up in stupid things that we can't touch, and I would hope Brewer would nab that money first if we ever needed it, rather than take from something we need and are using.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on May 26, 2011 14:10:01 GMT -5
First of all I'm not even sure why the federal government needs to provide any monetary relief to disaster areas. Don't insurance companies cover all if not most of the property damage? Yes, insurance covers property damage. Insurance does not feed / cloth / house people until the damage is assessed and the check is written. Insurance covers the cost of the property damage and in some cases loss of use.
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Post by lakhota on May 26, 2011 16:24:16 GMT -5
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on May 26, 2011 17:00:41 GMT -5
Tough for those Dems to give up their pet projects. Even in the face horrible suffering.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on May 27, 2011 0:18:42 GMT -5
Now that we've had "in the face of horrible suffering" thrown in our faces, I can direct you to the "self reliance" thread where Republicans are whining about tax dollars being spent on relief for flood victims.
Is there anything at all that the government SHOULD be spending money on? More foreign wars, perhaps?
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Post by lakhota on May 27, 2011 0:40:37 GMT -5
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Post by lakhota on May 27, 2011 0:41:45 GMT -5
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on May 27, 2011 0:45:29 GMT -5
No Shirina, three foreign wars are plenty. Yet consider, what should a government do? Fund research into a technology that may benefit us at some point in the future, or help entire communities the have been wiped off the map in a natural catastrophe. What to do, what to do? ?
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on May 27, 2011 8:46:33 GMT -5
You misunderstand. I hold no particular disagreement with Cantor's decision. I just found it rather dishonest to imply that Democrats care more about their pet projects than the tornado victims when, simultaneously, a thread exists wherein ostensibly Republican posters are complaining about the government helping flood victims.
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