azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on May 24, 2011 19:59:35 GMT -5
Good luck! Keep us posted. #karma#
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 10:40:29 GMT -5
AZ, the reason I suggested renting after selling (post 11) is if she can't find something she wants to buy at the time of the offer but has seen something suitable in the past (plan B). ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Depending on what's going on in her market I suspect that it's much better to grab the sale than to wait for the "perfect" place to live. It could also work out if she's able to score a smokin' deal on a foreclosure or old rental that she needs to spend some time fixing up before she can move in. But she really needs to do her homework, understand her options BEFORE she puts her place on the market.
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Post by cranberry on May 25, 2011 17:24:11 GMT -5
Thanks, everybody. I appreciate all this help.
Today I started the realtor process by calling one that's been recommended to me. I'm waiting for a call back, so obviously I haven't gotten too far.
But I'm feeling better about finding a place to rent if it comes to that. And if the right condo comes along, I can always make an offer contingent on the sale of my house. I won't start looking until my house is actually on the market, but I'll get the realtorsw thoughts on the best timing, etc.
If the condo happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it wasn't meant to be and I'll rent for awhile. Either way, everything will fall into place somehow. I just have to go with the flow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 17:41:39 GMT -5
Cranberry,
I would definitely start looking at potential inventory now. This way you'll know a bargain when one comes along.
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Post by cranberry on May 25, 2011 17:45:38 GMT -5
bonnap, I know what you mean. I do have my eyes open. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 18:19:26 GMT -5
That said, and thinking out loud here, what I perceive as headaches (upkeep, etc. - which I now hire out for because I have a herniated disk) could just translate into headaches with condo associations if I move. Make sure you really understand the Association you are going into (especially in this climate) as condo foreclosures can bankrupt an association causing you to have to pay significant dollars to maintenance and/or property value hits due to maintenance being postponed. freecondobook.com/ is a good summary from many years ago on the issues with condo associations. Personally, I either like a house (no Home Owners Association) or rent a place. That way I either have full control of my asset or can move if the management of the rental is terrible.
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Post by cranberry on May 25, 2011 18:58:46 GMT -5
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 25, 2011 19:26:47 GMT -5
You might find Home Buying for Dummies helpful.
Could you be more specific about what you meant about the house being too big and the upkeep too much? We can't tell from that whether it's an expense problem (high utilities) or a time problem (too much to clean) or an expertise problem (lots of wooden things that need replacement). Enumerating and quantifying (pricing) the hardships of staying in the house might help clarify your thinking.
I can easily understand how you could spend three years repairing and emptying a house. Deferred maintenance does stack up, does take longer than expected, and even paint can be painful to buy on a tight budget. If you've been attacking a DIY (as opposed to a honey-do) list that took years to build, you may be overestimating the time and expense of keeping the house up. Some of the things that you have been doing in the last three years only need to be done once a decade. Others need to be done more frequently but are much easier once the initial and secondary de-neglecting have been done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 19:40:19 GMT -5
You need to go in with your eyes open. I'm not the greatest fan of condos but they have their purpose. Do your homework. Read the condo docs (note how failing to do so caused a lot of problems for the one owner) as well as their financial documents. I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of the small condo complexes either. The problem in my opinion is that a lot of them are owned by entry level owners whom themselves have no cash reserves. That can be a problem when assessments for major capital reserves (like a roof) need to be levied. But there are some good ones. I like having a professional property manager involved who specializes in condo management. Besides being the professional neutral party, they will have expertise in preparing budgets, have connections to qualified maintenance folks, insurance et cetera. Even with SFR I believe in checking out the neighbors. Go on a Saturday and knock on some doors. If you're thinking of living in a lower unit, introduce yourself to the upstairs unit neighbor and have him/her walk around in the unit and see if that bothers you. Make sure you check out the parking situation. After noise it's probably one of the biggest bones of contention. But even with some problems you may decide to buy in a complex anyway. I took over the payments on my late mother's condo in San Diego. It's got several issues but it's a great rental. 1800 sq.ft. and six short blocks to San Diego's best beach. I've got my 'lil ol lady house. ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 25, 2011 23:43:08 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear that you are talking to realtors and loan officers about what your options are. They'll know better than us what those options are. Kudos to you for getting over your what-ifs and fears of not qualifying and gunning for answers.
However, with the exception of your landlord friends, those experts get paid to say "yes". They won't say "no" until the costs and risks to them exceed the cut that they'd likely make.
Now I ask you, "Do any of them even have any skin in the game?"
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 9:49:36 GMT -5
Haapai, I don't understand your post. With very few exceptions (possibly a credit union loan officer?) both real estate agents and loan officers are paid via commission. So they don't get paid until the transaction (sale) is closed. So "their skin in the game" would be that they are wasting their time if they tell the OP she can buy something if she really can't. Most people can't stay in business spinning their wheels. The OP is going to need some pretty creative people on her team. I think they are going to be working very hard for their money! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by cranberry on May 26, 2011 12:22:46 GMT -5
I have a very, very stupid question though. I know to read the condo association's financial documents. But where do I get them? Are they supplied by the realtors at, say, an open house or showing?
I'm leaning toward renting for a year or two before buying another place so that I can really take the time do to my homework and research different condo complexes. It may be a pain to move twice, but it would be a bigger pain to buy a condo in a hurry, while I'm distracted by selling my current house. This is all new to me and I want to make informed decisions.
Although I could wait to put my house on the market until next year and give myself more time to do research that way.
haapai, to answer your questions on the upkeep: it's partially expense and time and mostly expertise and ability. I have a herniated disk that prevents me from even mowing the lawn. So I hire out for that. Same with snow removal. And things like replacing a faucet - I hired out for.
In the last 3 years, I've had the following done:
new gutters update electrical system from 1952 fuses to 200 amps had a yard sale had stuff sold at an auction filled 3 1800-GOT-JUNK trucks donated a gazillion things to charity shredded bags and bags and bags of old tax returns and electric bills (from this house and from a summer cottage my parents owned) had 2 rooms re-wallpapered had 2 rooms re-painted had 2 rooms re-carpeted had bathroom grout repaired, bathroom wallpaper replaced, exhaust fan replaced, vanity replaced, trim and ceiling repainted had 1 room's hardwood floors redone had the shed (200 square feet) repaired and sided, gutters replaced had some trees removed and deadwood cut down had huge, overgrown, half-dead bushes removed had slope around house fixed had yard and perimeter of the house mulched and re-landscaped tried to grow a better lawn 3 times
But I feel like there's so much else I'd like to do. Most of the critical stuff is fine, but it will take me centuries to make this house a space that I really want to live in. I'm getting so tired of looking at it and feel so overwhelmed by the process.
When I say the house is too big - it's a 3 bedroom house. I don't even use the upstairs or the shed. I don't plan to have kids and am not keen on having roommates. I also feel a little isolated in this area. And I grew up in this house and feel that, in a way, I live with the ghosts of my parents. They were wonderful people, but I feel I need to move on.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on May 26, 2011 15:04:31 GMT -5
If you feel that way, then you should put the house on the market at a 2011 price, get the best deal you can for it and move on.
I used to live in a small condo complex (24 units), was president of the association for a couple of years, and we had major problems with people not paying their dues and not getting people to pay a special assessment. Logicnow has some good points about that. We ended up putting a lien against a couple of units, but with absentee landlords, we had a very difficult time collecting.
I would never again buy a condo, but would buy an end unit townhouse or a sf home with a very little yard.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on May 26, 2011 15:23:32 GMT -5
You get the condo docs by asking (ie demanding) them. Why is a better question.
At their finest, a condo board is simply carrying out the same stuff you did as a homeowner, but for the complex as a whole. Utilities, insurance, maintenance and rules of conduct.
I'd really want to see the board meeting's minutes. From that you'll see what the board actually does. Do they have many squabbles between owners? Is someone excercising their Napoleon aspirations via fines and dogmatic rules? Complete disorganisation (ie minutes? who keeps minutes) Are there financial problems? Trouble collecting? Trouble meeting expenses?
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on May 26, 2011 15:31:33 GMT -5
If you read the minutes from back in my condo days, you'd know: 1. Mary would routinely get drunk and drive into the wall... then be asked to pay. Dramatic, but not a major problem to other owners. 2. Jeff would not pay his assessments until we'd threaten. Not a major problem. 11/12 paid regularly. 1/12 paid frustratingly. 3. Assessments were rising steeply and steadily. Worrisome, until you dug deeper. Communal heat, the rise matched natural gas prices. 4. Special assessments. We were hiding something. To keep our association dues similar to other close properties, we had a game. Regular dues left the annual budget in the red. Every 2 years we'd have a special assessment to get back in the black. Condo shoppers would ask what the regular montly assessment was and base their decision to buy / price to offer based on that figure.
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Post by cranberry on May 26, 2011 16:00:29 GMT -5
You know, the more I think about it, the more I think a condo is not really for me. It seems like there would be too many cooks in the kitchen and I really do like having the control over when I do my repairs and who I hire. I'm not super-confrontational and like to live a quiet little existence.
So perhaps these are my options:
1) Stay in my house. Take some of my savings and get the work done that will make it my house, not my parents' house. Understand that the money I spend on upkeep (and hiring people to do it) does end up being a wash in a way because I don't have a mortgage.
2) Sell this house and buy a smaller house with a smaller yard. The thing is, that doesn't mean I won't have the same homeownership issues that I have now. At least I know my house inside and out. And I wonder if an even smaller house would be harder to sell later. My current house is about 1,100 square feet - small by many people's standards. The lot is 1/3 acre.
3) Sell this house and rent an apartment long-term. It would take away a lot of the hassles. It would also mean things like proximity to neighbors, parking, snow removal, etc. are out of my control.
So, I need to look at my priorities.
1) happiness, safety, quiet 2) having a second bedroom to use as a home office, since I work at home 3) having space for guests to visit, especially my nephew
My house is starting to look better....hmmmm.....
I hate how flip-floppy I get over this!
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on May 26, 2011 16:07:46 GMT -5
Condo shoppers would ask what the regular montly assessment was and base their decision to buy / price to offer based on that figure.
I would check to see how big reserves were and what improvements or maintenance was in the future plans. Without reserves everything will be assessments and if they are under collecting they will have to increase sooner than if they are collecting enough or extra.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 26, 2011 16:35:21 GMT -5
You need detailed budgets that compare the costs of staying, renting, and condo living. I'm not sure what they'll look like, but I'm pretty sure they'd tell you something.
There are probably some big tax and retirement planning pluses in selling and putting just enough of the proceeds into the condo to make it work with an irregular income. Are you presently limited to IRA contributions? Do you expect that to change?
Doing over a decade of deferred maintenance and repair in three years and paying for others to do most of it will seriously warp your perception of upkeep. I know this because I'm doing something similar. It's a recipe for despair and self-loathing. I can't believe that I'm paying people to haul away junk that I should have been able to get rid of for free or nearly free. I can't believe how bad the overgrown bushes look after they've been pruned. I can't believe that I painted the exterior of a thirty-year-old shed with a hole in the floor and a leaky roof. I get only limited comfort from a to-do list that is shorter than the done list. No matter how much I do, I can't get that list short enough to read it all without scrolling.
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RoadToRiches
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Post by RoadToRiches on May 26, 2011 16:38:10 GMT -5
Listen, don't be scared of a condo. I have one. I love it. You can hear same horror stories about people that own homes. Replacing roofs, siding, landscaping, etc, as well. Everything has it's ups and downs.
You need to know what the association is including and understand the laws. Nothing else to it.
For me choosing condo over a house was:
1. I am single and don't need a house. 2. I HATE doing landscaping. If I had a house, I would have to buy lawnmower, put mulch every year, water, plants... forget that! Now I get all this stuff done every Tuesday. Do I pay for it? Of course!It's included in my association. 3. Any outside maintenance is included. In 7 years I have been here, my roof was replaced, new cedar siding, very nice new rock steps to the entrance of my condo, new gutters and new driveway was poured. My association fees did not go up. 4. We have a pool here, tennis courts, basketball courts and park 5. For the price that I paid - $99k, I would not be able to find a house like this (1800sq feet, fireplace, 2 car attached garage, 2 beds 1.5 bath, 17 feet vaulted ceilings) 6. My property taxes are LOT cheaper than if I had a house 7. The value of my condo didn't go down as much (really none according to Zillow) when houses around me went from 400-500k in 2006 to 280-340k right now. 8. My association fees include: water, garbage removal, snow plowing (we get TONS of snow) any repairs outside, landscaping
You need to KNOW what is planned. That's what I did and I found out that my fees will NOT go up despite all of the improvements that they have scheduled.
I think people who say condos are bad lived in one of those apartment looking condos where everyone is piled on top of each other (you have neighbours on the top and bottom and sides) I wouldn't live in one of those either.
I guess you can call mine a town home? But my area is called "condominiums" though lol...
And if someone doesn't pay their dues, they simply foreclose on them here.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 27, 2011 8:55:11 GMT -5
The place we have bought is only 8 years old but the two previous owners did nothing so its a mess. Landscaping is being done today because everything got so overgrown that they are using a small caterpillar to dig them out and remove them. Trimming just wouldn't work. It also needed gutter and roof fixes. Then downspout in bad spot so basement was wet. Wet for 8 years because the two previous owners ignored it. Sigh. I figure the exterior is going to be done in two phases. Phase one started today.
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Post by cranberry on May 27, 2011 10:17:13 GMT -5
Again, many many thanks to you all. I know I flip-flop a lot, but I appreciate everyone sticking with me.
Haapai wrote:
Doing over a decade of deferred maintenance and repair in three years and paying for others to do most of it will seriously warp your perception of upkeep. I know this because I'm doing something similar. It's a recipe for despair and self-loathing. I can't believe that I'm paying people to haul away junk that I should have been able to get rid of for free or nearly free. I can't believe how bad the overgrown bushes look after they've been pruned. I can't believe that I painted the exterior of a thirty-year-old shed with a hole in the floor and a leaky roof. I get only limited comfort from a to-do list that is shorter than the done list. No matter how much I do, I can't get that list short enough to read it all without scrolling.
I can really relate. Part of what makes this process overwhelming for me is that I get angry at my mother for being such a packrat and not taking care of repairs.
But I've come this far. And a lot of these things would have had to be done even I'd sold the house 3 years ago.
Last night, I weighed the this-house vs. rent an apartment pros and cons and looked at the numbers. I also wrote down everything I've spent on upkeep over the last year (not updates, but upkeep). It turned out that the maintenance, property taxes, heat, and insurance were not much more than the rent I'd expect to pay for a 1-bedroom apartment and less than a 2-bedroom apartment. And I have a more private space and a garage, which I wouldn't have with an apartment. So it makes no sense to rent, for me. Even if I didn't have to be concerned with maintenance, there would be a whole host of other potential hassles.
So I started thinking about a smaller house with a smaller yard, which is an option. Maybe not now, but down the road. I looked at a bunch online - granted, you can't see the same things you'd see in person. But the smaller houses I've seen look like they would need the updates that I'd be putting into my present house anyway.
So I'm thinking that perhaps the best route is to keep my house for now, withdraw some savings, and make those updates that will make the house "mine." If I don't sell, I can enjoy the updates. If I do, then the updates may make the house easier to sell later.
So that would include:
replace bathroom floor replace closet doors fix lawn (eventually) paint TV room or get rid of knotty pine paneling. Fix spot where my Dad cut a hole in the wall to put air conditioner. replace kitchen cabinets replace kitchen floor paint knotty pine hutch in living room re-do upstairs bedroom (wallpaper stuck to drywall and won't come down, replace carpet, paint trim) update insulation (eventually)
Compared to what I've already done, that doesn't sound so bad.
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IPAfan
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Post by IPAfan on May 29, 2011 18:34:22 GMT -5
You will have no problem whatsoever renting an apartment with the proceeds of a house sale in the bank.
I qualified for an apartment based on 6 months worth of rent in savings with NO VERIFIABLE income at all.
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Post by cranberry on May 29, 2011 18:50:14 GMT -5
Thanks, beerfan, that's good to know.
I've decided to stay in my house for now, but it's good to know I have options.
Friday, I shopped for new flooring for the kitchen and bathroom. Kind of excited about that. And I ordered a good photo scanner so I can scan the gazillion family photos cluttering up the attic. Feels good to move forward.
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