gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on May 20, 2011 7:35:56 GMT -5
There was an interesting Dr. Phil episode on this topic. They had a focus group of kids in different age groups to gauge how much they understood about money. For example, how many groceries that new ipod would buy and how that related to the housing expenses. The kids were all clueless whether they were 8 or 16. The experts were really good about explaining how things work and lightbulbs definitely went off for some of these kids. By the follow-up there was a lot less begging mom and dad for stuff everytime they went to the store or mall. Check it out: www.drphil.com/shows/show/1252
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Havoc
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Post by Havoc on May 20, 2011 7:38:04 GMT -5
I go more for the approach of teaching lessons about money as opposed to personal specifics with our two eldest (ages 7 & 5).
It is amazing what details/comments that they pick up on their own, and a little eye-opening as to what they spout out in conversations to their peers and other adults they come in contact with. This past Saturday I overheard eldest talking to his coach and another boy on the team - I didn't hear what started the conversation, but w/in a minute and a half eldest had relayed my age, how many chickens we had, what we made per week from egg sales, how many cars we had and that we had a loan on one of them. Seriously, if I ever get amnesia and need to know what's going on in my house, all I need to do is ask their bus driver or one of their teachers. From the info eldest volunteers about other kids families, I know that the info flow is going both ways. He doesn't quite grasp the concept of some information isn't for everyone, so until they get to the age where they learn discretion, I will keep it general.
I do think that they are learning, though. Eldest doesn't ask for everything in the world, and he has actually taken on the task of responding to his younger siblings when they ask for things in the grocery store ("we already have that at home", "that's a treat, and we don't need it", and even - "that's not on sale"). They also have a schmancy-fancy toy cash register at home that they play store with frequently, "selling" star war figures, dinosaur figures, etc., so between doing math in the egg business and their play store they are learning about money.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on May 20, 2011 7:46:44 GMT -5
This is my favorite part of the transcript:
Did you learn anything?” Dr. Phil asks Owen.
“I learned that when your parents tell you, ‘No, you can’t get that,' that you shouldn’t nag them all about it,” he says.
And this one from Madison: “Instead of nagging them for a bunch of things, you should appreciate what you have instead of asking for more things and, like, having a tantrum, because that’s what I do when I don’t get what I want,” she says.
And this one from Katelyn: “I learned that an iPod is 28 bags of groceries, and groceries are much more important than an iPod,” she says.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 20, 2011 8:35:47 GMT -5
With 4 kids and a blended family, all teens or approaching the teen years, we've decided to handle it like this:
We don't tell any of the kids exactly how much money we make or where we put all of it because of money issues with the ex-spouses. The kids do know approximately how much we make per hour as that was required information during our court appearances for custody and we figured if their other parent already knew, it wouldn't hurt for them to know as well.
As the older ones are approaching working ages (oldest is 15), we've been having them help us pay our bills. We have several checking accounts where our money is split into, so they're only seeing a portion of our income from the one account. Having them pay the bills has been a huge eye-opener for them. Knowing what we're paying to keep a cell phone on while they are grounded from it for bad grades made an impression on OSD. She realized that was money we could be spending on something else instead of her useless phone. Her grades came back up quickly.
With 4 kids, we've also had the discussions of - but my friend gets $100 shoes, why can't I? First question we ask is how many siblings does their friend have? Almost always, the answer is none - they are an only child. We point out that we're also spending $100 on shoes, but we have to split it 4 ways so that everyone has shoes, that's why we only have $25 to spend on their shoes. When we point out that we're also spending $100 on back packs/4, $100 on school supplies/4 and about $400 on new school clothes/4, they start to understand really quickly that we spend a lot of money on all of them, but not a lot of money on just one.
A side benefit to these discussions is the kids now saying they're not ever going to have kids or they are only going to have 1-2 kids, not 4!! As OSD says, "Not only are we kids brats, but we're expensive too!!" (her words, not mine - although I LOL'd at her)
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kiskis
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Post by kiskis on May 20, 2011 9:07:01 GMT -5
I think kids pick up on a lot more than most people would expect. They definitely have an idea of where their family stands financially relative to their classmates.
If they ever ask, I think I would be very open about what DH and I make, but I would have to put it in a frame of reference in terms of what our expenses are and what sort of work we do for our income. I would also be VERY emphatic that this is private family information and while we have a very open philosophy with everyone in the family with no secrets, this is not to be shared outside of the house. Nothing more annoying than a kid bragging about how much money his/her family has, or how much stuff he/she has in school.
My children are still very young, but as they grow and express interest in money or things that cost money, I will definitely be introducing them to the financial world. I remember my mother, a CPA, showing me her monthly budgets for the household, and how much my summer camps, dance lessons, and music lessons cost. I pretty much tuned her out for the most part (typical "yeah, uh huh, sure" then run-off-and-play kids response) but now that I keep my own household spreadsheets, I realize that a lot more of her rubbed off on me than either one of us could have guessed at the time.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2011 9:15:36 GMT -5
**Temporary thread hijack**
Hey, Kiskis is back! I'm glad you found us!
**Back to our regularly scheduled programming.**
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on May 20, 2011 9:19:06 GMT -5
Can I ask you a question? Aren't you worried at all that this kind of answer will make them not want to have kids or more than one kid?
ETA: Never mind, I should have read you ENTIRE message. Sorry!!!!
Lena
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kiskis
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Post by kiskis on May 20, 2011 9:48:38 GMT -5
**Temporary thread hijack** Hey, Kiskis is back! I'm glad you found us! **Back to our regularly scheduled programming.** Hi, Swamp!! I'm surprised people remember. Thanks for the welcome. ;D
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nalto
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Post by nalto on May 20, 2011 11:05:09 GMT -5
"Watch the scene from Bill Cosby where Theo is going to move out, and Dad uses the monopoly money to make things realistic. "
" There IS a problem, YOU HAVEN'T EATEN YET!"-Cosby.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 20, 2011 11:42:56 GMT -5
I'm glad the kids learned the power of multiples here - but you only addressed the outflow. Once they are single, and all their friends are single - will they be grounded enough to realize maybe their friends started with more, so they have more to spend?
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on May 20, 2011 11:59:07 GMT -5
I don't think my parents ever told me how much they make - and right now, I'm not even sure I know. But I did go grocery shopping with them (and they paid in cash), I know how much my high school tuition bill was, they gave us money for back to school shopping and let us figure out how to spend it - so they did impart a lot of financial wisdom, and enough info that when I was a teenager I could make an educated guess.
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on May 20, 2011 12:12:45 GMT -5
Thank you, azphx - I feel very blessed.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on May 20, 2011 12:15:47 GMT -5
My kids , now 23 and 25 have a pretty good idea of our net worth and income. College and FAFSA alone open up alot of these discussions. They probably had a general idea of income as they were growing up. As we had/have a general idea about our parents. It's not avoided or considered a secret. The most difficult explanations when the kids were younger was when they were denied things. Because they knew that "we can't afford it" wasn't really true. It's more difficult to explain "we chose not to buy that for you."
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on May 20, 2011 12:24:33 GMT -5
"Watch the scene from Bill Cosby where Theo is going to move out, and Dad uses the monopoly money to make things realistic. " " There IS a problem, YOU HAVEN'T EATEN YET!"-Cosby. LOL ![](http://us.social.s-msn.com/s/images/emoticons/thumbs_up.gif) "you'll need a helmet"
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 20, 2011 12:38:34 GMT -5
I'm glad the kids learned the power of multiples here - but you only addressed the outflow. Once they are single, and all their friends are single - will they be grounded enough to realize maybe their friends started with more, so they have more to spend? Thyme - I'm not sure exactly what you mean here - would you please clarify? I think I know....but I want to make sure before I respond.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 20, 2011 16:50:15 GMT -5
I guess I mean that obligations aren't the only limiting factor when spending. I could have 4 kids and still easily spend $100 on shoes, but then you would have to explain to them that I have higher income, or my grandfather died and left me a million dollars, or I lived in a van down by the river and saved money for 10 years and bought my house cash so I don't have a mortgage. It isn't as simple as more people = less money.
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sil
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Post by sil on May 20, 2011 17:02:09 GMT -5
My little sister is 8 years younger than me, and after she was born my parents also kept telling us that they couldnt afford to spend money on our stuff because we became a family of 5.
I was stoked to have a baby in the house, so it didnt matter too much to me, but my older sister kind of hated the baby for awhile because she blamed her for taking away the family's spending money.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on May 20, 2011 17:20:01 GMT -5
I've kind of given our kids more information gradually as they've gotten older. I've saved some books to share with our oldest to read the summer before going off to college. I can tell them so much, but sometimes if they read it in print, it makes a stronger impression.
Now that the oldest has a first "real" job, I tell them to figure out how many hours at work it takes to earn a desired item. Talk about a wake-up call! Although never the type to fuss or tantrum when we said "no" to something, this kid is now the most frugal teenager you'll ever meet! ;D
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 20, 2011 17:46:43 GMT -5
<< My little sister is 8 years younger than me, and after she was born my parents also kept telling us that they couldnt afford to spend money on our stuff because we became a family of 5.
I was stoked to have a baby in the house, so it didnt matter too much to me, but my older sister kind of hated the baby for awhile because she blamed her for taking away the family's spending money. >>
You have to pay attention to the way you word things. I remember as a young child being frustrated at my mother that we couldn't do this or buy that because "it costs too much". I replied "but it is worth it", which seemed reasonable to me. I had the vague concept that everyone had the same amount of money to spend. I thought she was just objecting to the principal of something costing too much.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 24, 2011 7:57:40 GMT -5
I guess I mean that obligations aren't the only limiting factor when spending. I could have 4 kids and still easily spend $100 on shoes, but then you would have to explain to them that I have higher income, or my grandfather died and left me a million dollars, or I lived in a van down by the river and saved money for 10 years and bought my house cash so I don't have a mortgage. It isn't as simple as more people = less money. Thank you for clarifying for me (sorry I just now remembered the thread!). Yes, we've explained to the kids that there are other factors to consider in making the purchases we do. We explain to them that we only have a limited amount of money to do everything we want to with and that choices sometimes have to be made. We use the example of a larger house a lot of the time. Right now, we live in a 3 br, 2 bath house with about 1400 sq ft. Everyone shares a room, including our dogs (they are small and fit into a large crate together). The kids ask us often enough if we can buy a larger house so they can all have their own rooms. On our salary, we could easily afford a larger house, but we wouldn't be able to afford vacations, going out to eat or the extracurricular activities the kids do and still be able to save money. We point this out to the kids and ask them if they're okay with giving up the extras to have their own bedrooms (we already know they're not okay with giving the stuff up - we wouldn't ask otherwise!). They like doing the extra stuff and when pointed out to them, they understand why we make the choices we do. Just like adults though, they're not immue to wanting it all right now anyway.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on May 24, 2011 8:22:42 GMT -5
nqty, and did you explain to them that you also have to share a room?? ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 24, 2011 11:15:07 GMT -5
nqty, and did you explain to them that you also have to share a room?? ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) LOL!! Sure do - they're response is always - "Yeah, but you like Dad!! I don't like brother/sister!!" ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif)
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 17:13:49 GMT -5
The mother would deposit her pay checks into the account, and the son would write the checks to pay all the bills, buy groceries, etc., from it. She talked about how he learned to budget and what all goes into running a household. I can see the benefit, but I don't know if I'd be comfortable being that open about our finances with our kids.
I've always thought this was a really good idea.
I don't see the problem with being open with your kids about finances as long as you make it clear from the start that "what Daddy brings home is not necessarily WHAT WE LIVE ON." And that this information is not to be discussed outside the home.
It's a bit funny to me that you feel squeamish being open with your daughters but you don't mind laying out the gory details for strangers ;D
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 17:19:50 GMT -5
They managed to impart a lot of financial wisdom without giving us any detail. I wish I could remember exactly how they did it, but there was never a time that I remember not understanding how credit cards worked, etc. I think they mostly just said "no" a lot, to the point that I don't recall ever asking for much, because it was clear it wasn't going to happen. It got to the point of being surprised when my dad would splurge for something, like taking the family on a day-long horseback riding trip on one of our vacations (we still talk about that trip!)
I think you grew up in my family. So, both ways can work. I didn't learn my parents' salary until a few years ago.
It's not that I want to push my kids to reach a pre-determined earning level, but I want them to understand before they leave our house how much income it takes to have various lifestyles, how much saving for retirement costs, etc. I don't want them to go out cluelessly trying to recreate our lifestyle, even if they can't afford it, because they don't know any better. Hopefully that leads to them making smart choices about how much to spend on college degrees, where to move, how much shelter to buy, etc.
This is why I'm in favor of openness (as long as things are going okay - I think I'd shield my kids if we were one bounced payment away from getting the electric shut off). My parents have a very modest lifestyle which is significantly less than they could afford and (somewhat as a result) I have fairly modest tastes also (less modest than theirs, but in the ballpark). But it would have been helpful to know the dollar figure I was aiming for in advance.
I don't know that it would have changed anything for me but it's interesting to contemplate how it might have impacted my thought process. "Okay, Mom and Dad make $X per year - to get a better house, I need to make $Y per year." Et cetera.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 17:22:59 GMT -5
Mom showed me those things as I got older (later teen years) so I could learn wise investing. She taught me about CD's, IRA's, etc. When I had my first real job with 401k benefits, I couldn't wait until I turned 21 to start contributing.
insmoneymaven, I really like the way your parents did it. I would like to do it the same way.
Of course, I question how much you could cram down a kid's throat if they didn't happen to be interested in the subject. I would have been eating this up, just as you were. But not all kids would.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 17:25:44 GMT -5
“I learned that an iPod is 28 bags of groceries, and groceries are much more important than an iPod,” she says.
Wow. Win!
I guess food would be important to most teenagers.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 24, 2011 17:31:49 GMT -5
My kids know everyone I know and they might talk. You people most likely don't know anyone I know. Talk all you want.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 24, 2011 17:32:25 GMT -5
Plus - I don't want my kids thinking what's mine is theirs. I doubt any of you think I'm going to share.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 17:40:17 GMT -5
Plus - I don't want my kids thinking what's mine is theirs. I doubt any of you think I'm going to share. Wha-what?! ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) Thyme, what about our deal?!
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 24, 2011 18:44:11 GMT -5
DARK: My 2 cents, for what it's worth.
There has to be a balance when you are revealing things to teens. they don't necessarily have to know what you have or don't have, but they do need to learn from an early age that money is nothing more than a tool to use in a responsible manner. There's lots of ways to teach this, it would be a parent's choice. Just find a way to separate money from emotion.
When we are older it's wise to let them all know in a family meeting what you have and where it's going. If something happens to you or/and your wife, they need to be prepared. It's a nasty thing to try to figure things out when people are mourning.
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