The PIIGS are going to cost far more then est!!!!!

[decoy409]

Maybe he is fooled by the following audit that occured maui1?

Quote: Audit of What

KPMG LLP, an independent public accountant, performed the audit of the Mint’s Fiscal Year 2005 financial statements.

Notice what the above says: an audit of the financial statements. It doesn’t say an audit of the physical gold. Is there a difference?

According to what follows, KPMG LLP never saw any physical gold. They never went to Fort Knox. Then what did they audit?

Apparently they audited the reports that the Treasury Department and the Mint gave them via the Deputy Assistant Inspector General for Financial Management and Information Technology Audits Report.

In other words they audited statements and reports from William H. Pugh Deputy Assistant Inspector General for Financial Management and Information Technology Audits that he supplied to the Treasury and the Mint.

The report also contains a disclaimer by the Treasury Department that the audit did not include Treasury gold held by the Federal Reserve.

Now why is that? Is it the Treasury’s Gold, or the Federal Reserve’s Gold, or We The People’s Gold? And why is the Federal Reserve holding it? More unanswered questions.

[decoy409]

Say don't close the conversation because accute points have been made again.

Your talking about all this 'supposed gold the US has stashed but the AUDIT above is nothing but a big joke! As there was never no HANDS ON AUDIT as the RECORD STATES.
So the NUMBERS that are being flopped around are pretty much meaningless and the que is only SPECULATION.

[decoy409]

Below is the audit (in part) for the year 2005. It was taken from the Treasury website that can be accessed at the below blue link, which states that the audit is in the public domain: (click blue date).



10/31/2005
OIG-06-003: Audit of the United States Mint's Schedule of Custodial Gold and Silver Reserves as of September 30, 2005 and 2004





MEMORANDUM FOR DAVID A. LYBRIK, ACTING DIRECTOR UNITED STATES MINT



FROM: William H. Pugh Deputy Assistant Inspector General for Financial Management and Information Technology Audits.



SUBJECT: Audit of the United States Mint’s Schedule of Custodial Gold and Silver Reserves as of September 30, 2005 and 2004.



The attached report presents the results of our audits of the United States Mint’s (Mint) Schedule of Custodial Gold and Silver Reserves (Custodial Schedule) as of September 30, 2005 and 2004. The Custodial Schedule is the responsibility of the Mint. We conducted our audits in accordance with Government Auditing Standards, issued by the Comptroller General of the United States.



We rendered an unqualified opinion on the Custodial Schedule as of September 30, 2005 and 2004. In addition, our report contains no reportable conditions related to internal control, and no instances of noncompliance with laws and regulations that could have a direct and material effect on the Custodial Schedule.



The results of our audits will be used by KPMG LLP, an independent public accountant, who is performing the audit of the Mint’s Fiscal Year 2005 financial statements. In addition, copies of our report are being provided to the Secretary of the Treasury, the Treasurer of the United States, and the Department of the Treasury’s Chief Financial Officer.” [1]



Who’s Who


Who is “we”? We is the “FROM: William H. Pugh Deputy Assistant Inspector General for Financial Management and Information Technology Audits who audited the United State’s Mint’s Schedule of Custodial Gold and Silver Reserves (custodial schedule).” [2]



Notice that all that was given was an unqualified opinion of the custodial schedule. This is opposed to a qualified opinion. Also note there were no internal controls examined. In other words it seems that only an external audit was done – not an internal audit.



“The results of our audits will be used by KPMG LLP, an independent public accountant, who is performing the audit of the Mint’s Fiscal Year 2005 financial statements.” [3]



The above strongly alludes that all that KPMG LLP audited was the report submitted by the Deputy Assistant Inspector General for Financial Management and Information Technology Audits, who only audited the custodial schedule of the U.S. Mint.



To the Acting Director of the United States Mint:



We have audited the accompanying Schedule of Custodial Gold and Silver Reserves (Custodial Schedule) of the United States Mint (Mint) as of September 30, 2005 and 2004.

This report presents our unqualified opinion on this Custodial Schedule. Our audit disclosed no material weaknesses and no instances of reportable noncompliance with laws and regulations.



In planning and conducting our audit of the Mint’s Custodial Schedule, we considered internal control over financial reporting. Specifically, we obtained an understanding of the design of the Mint’s internal control related to the Custodial Schedule, determined whether these internal controls had been placed in operation, assessed control risk, and performed tests of controls in order to determine our auditing procedures for the purpose of expressing our opinion on the Custodial Schedule and not to provide assurance on the internal control over financial reporting. Consequently, we do not provide an opinion on such control.



As part of obtaining reasonable assurance about whether the Custodial Schedule is free of material misstatement, we performed tests of the Mint’s compliance with certain provisions of laws and regulations, noncompliance with which could have a direct and material effect on the determination of Custodial Schedule amounts. We limited our tests of compliance to these provisions and we did not test compliance with all laws and regulations applicable to the Mint. We caution that noncompliance may occur and not be detected by these tests and that testing may not be sufficient for other purposes. Providing an opinion on compliance with laws and regulations was not an objective of our audit and, accordingly, we do not express such an opinion.



Internal control is a process, affected by management and other personnel, designed to provide reasonable assurance that the following objectives are met:



Reliability of financial reporting - transactions are properly recorded, processed, and summarized to permit the preparation of the Custodial Schedule in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America, and the safeguarding of assets against loss from unauthorized acquisition, use, or disposition; and


Compliance with applicable laws and regulations that could have a direct and material effect on the Custodial Schedule.


Because of limitations inherent in any internal control, errors or fraud may occur and not be detected. Also, projection of any evaluation of internal control to future periods is subject to the risk that internal control may become inadequate because of changes in conditions or that the effectiveness of the design and operation of policies and procedures may deteriorate.



Our consideration of internal control over financial reporting would not necessarily disclose all matters in the internal control over financial reporting related to the Custodial Schedule that might be material weaknesses. A material weakness is a reportable condition in which the design or operation of one or more of the internal control components does not reduce to a relatively low level the risk that misstatements caused by errors or fraud in amounts that would be material in relation to the Custodial Schedule being audited may occur and not be detected within a timely period by employees in the normal course of performing their assigned functions. However, we noted no matters involving the internal control over financial reporting related to the Custodial Schedule and its operation that we consider to be material weaknesses as defined above. [4]



The above is what was submitted to:







KPMG LLP [5]





The Audit by KPMG LLP:



All of the following up to quotation number 6 is from the same Audit of the Mint as footnoted and referenced above:










The accompanying notes are an integral part of this Schedule.












The above is the end of quote # [6] from the Audit referenced above. As the quoted material states, an audit of the mint’s custodial reserve schedule was performed.



The schedule and the actual physical gold are two different entities. The first is a piece of paper; the second is the actual physical gold reserves.



The Federal Reserve



Next is information taken from the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the U. S. Code. All of the information is footnoted and concerns the various pertinent issues that involve the Federal Reserve and gold, both according to its written Act, and the U.S. Code, and how it relates to the topics under review.





The following is quoted from the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.



FEDERAL RESERVE ACT OF 1913


SECTION 12 (IN PART)



The Federal Advisory Council shall have power, by itself or through its officers, (1) to confer directly with the Federal Reserve Board on general business conditions; (2) to make oral or written representations concerning matters within the jurisdiction of said board; (3) to call for information and to make recommendations in regard to discount rates, rediscount business, note issues, reserve conditions in the various districts, the purchase and sale of gold or securities by reserve banks, open-market operations by said banks, and the general affairs of the reserve banking system.



SECTION 14A


(a) To deal in gold coin and bullion at home or abroad, to make loans thereon, exchange Federal reserve notes for gold, gold coin, or gold certificates, and to contract for loans of gold coin or bullion, giving therefore, when necessary, acceptable security, including the hypothecation of United States bonds or other securities which Federal reserve banks are authorized to hold; [7]



The above quotes from the Federal Reserve Act illustrate that they have been vested with the ability to purchase and sell gold, both at home and abroad; and to contract for loans of gold coin or bullion.


However, it is arguably questionable as by whose authority did the Federal Reserve receive such grants of power?



It appears that The Federal Advisory Committee authorized such actions, which begs the question: who is the Federal Advisory Committee and what authority granted them such powers?



Congress has not granted them such powers, and only Congress is authorized to grant such power, and only to government agencies - not to privately owned banks. Once again it seems like there are some questions that need answering.


THE U.S. CODE


The following information is from the U.S. Code as titled and footnoted. The first quote shows that the Federal Reserve Act can be amended, altered, or repealed, at any time.



This means that United States could be left without any type of monetary system, unless of course, one were set up beforehand to take its place.



Depending on exactly what they have in mind here, it could run the gamut from a system of Honest Weights and Measures of Gold and Silver Coin, to abolishing the existent system and replacing it with a different paper fiat system.



Perhaps an electronic credits account system, with or without gold is under consideration for implementation. Perhaps the Special Drawing Rights of the Bank For International Settlements is being discussed as a viable replacement. Once again – many unanswered questions.

TITLE 12--BANKS AND BANKING



CHAPTER 3--FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM



SUBCHAPTER I--DEFINITIONS, ORGANIZATION, AND GENERAL PROVISIONS

AFFECTING SYSTEM



Sec. 226. “Federal Reserve Act”



Separability; Right To Amend, Alter or Repeal Sec. 31. The right to amend, alter, or repeal this Act is hereby expressly reserved.''[8]



TITLE 12--BANKS AND BANKING



CHAPTER 3--FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM



SUBCHAPTER II--BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM



Sec. 248b. Annual independent audits of Federal Reserve Banks and Board



The Board shall order an annual independent audit of the financial statements of each Federal Reserve Banks and the Board.



(Dec. 23, 1913, ch. 6, Sec. 11B, as added Pub. L. 106-102, title VII,

Sec. 726, Nov. 12, 1999, 113 Stat. 1475.) [9]



TITLE 12--BANKS AND BANKING



CHAPTER 3--FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM



SUBCHAPTER III--FEDERAL ADVISORY COUNCIL



Sec. 262. Powers



The Federal Advisory Council shall have power, by itself or through its officers, (1) to confer directly with the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System on general business conditions; (2) to make oral or written representations concerning matters within the jurisdiction of said board; (3) to call for information and to make recommendations in

regard to discount rates, rediscount business, note issues, reserve conditions in the various districts, the purchase and sale of gold or securities by reserve banks, open-market operations by said banks, and the general affairs of the reserve banking system.



(Dec. 23, 1913, ch. 6, Sec. 12 (par.), 38 Stat. 263; Aug. 23, 1935, ch.

614, title II, Sec. 203(a), 49 Stat. 704.) [10]





SUBCHAPTER II--GENERAL DUTIES AND POWERS


Sec. 714. Audit of Financial Institutions Examination Council, Federal Reserve Board, Federal Reserve banks, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and Office of Comptroller of the Currency

(a) In this section, ``agency'' means the Financial Institutions Examination Council, the Federal Reserve Board, Federal reserve banks, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, and the Office of Thrift Supervision.

(b) Under regulations of the Comptroller General, the Comptroller General shall audit an agency, but may carry out an onsite examination of an open insured bank or bank holding company only if the appropriate agency has consented in writing. Audits of the Federal Reserve Board and Federal Reserve banks may not include--

(1) Transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or nonprivate international financing organization;

(2) Deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;

(3) Transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee; or

(4) A part of a discussion or communication among or between members of the Board of Governors and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System related to clauses (1)-(3) of this subsection. [11]



Summary



From the above information, including the 2005 Audit of the Mint’s Custodial Schedule, to the quoted sections of the Federal Reserve Act and the U.S. Code, it is most obvious that



· The Federal Reserve is involved with buying and selling and holding gold



· That the Federal Reserve Act does not mandate the Fed to offer any full audit to any government departments or agencies that it does not want to provide the information to



· That the U.S. Code does not mandate any auditing of the Federal Reserve



· That there is no written and reported record of any physical audit of the U.S. gold reserves having been done anytime in the last few decades



· There are questions as to who holds title to what amounts of gold: the U.S. Treasury, or the Fed, or We The People – and is the gold acting as collateral in any way shape or form, and if so for what purpose?

[bimetalaupt]

Maui1,
I was talking about "Fractional Reserve Monetary systems".. We have added money with debt backing but if we pay off the debts and the reserve would be 100% gold backed. Gold is still there and has risen from $42.50 value to $1,510 / oz..I do not know how many Gold certificates are left in the world but I do know where a few are. I have not seen the gold at Fort Knox but have seen the gold in New York. The point both of use have made is that the EURO is a "dead man walking."

I think you are current for the Super Jumbo CD's needing about 3% reserve cash. Problems with loans is the banks lack capital to back up risk loans.. like one made to firms for operating funds etc. The capital demand for risk loans is about 12.5% or more so the banks have not been making these loans for equipment and inventory. This is why and how firms have learned to hoard cash. Remember in the old days like 1820-1840 banks had about 55% capital and it was all Tier1. When we got off the gold standard M2 and m3 exploded with expansion of the monetary base by All the Central Banks of the world. Well, this has improved our standard of living over the last 85 years. Germany want the Marc Back as well as the Bundesbank control of the EU.

Great Post,
Bi Metal Au Pt

[decoy409]

Why are you AVOIDING Bruce? You have a dam audit uptop yet you are still PRAISING that it is there!

And if you think I stop when I am on a roll with others,think again.

Your talking about backing but you don't even know what is there to state such.

[bimetalaupt]

Decoy409,
Agreed on Fort Knox but the Federal Reserve Vault is in the audit every year for the 2nt District in New York.. They run the Books for T-Bonds and T-Notes for the whole system as well as all the Federal Reserve Gold holdings. The term missing with the gold standard was that the system was " inelastic"..That is what Paul Warberg was trying to fix. On the other hand look at the huge loans to members of German Hypo-Bank the Federal Reserve to keep the Irish banking system from crashing.. Loans to a debtor is like make a drink for a drunk. I think we have lots of gold in Fort Know and the Coin on demand was to point this out. Both Federal Reserve and Treasuary buy gold and the USA is a very large producer of Gold. Buying gold adds to the Monetary Base.

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

[decoy409]

'Loans to a debtor is like make a drink for a drunk'

This is what the world has come to know about the US.

Say I like franks sick analogy,he is investing to make money off the backs of his kids. Way to go sport!

[resume]

Bruce,

Thanks for your patient explanations of the facts in response to the questions posed.

I beleive that many of us need a better understanding of the realities of banking and regulation to be able to discuss the fine points intelligently.

Keep posting and I will do my part by reading and learning what I can.

[decoy409]

Deleted by me.

[decoy409]

You can muss and fuss all you like as to the numbers and US having those backed with a gld supply readily at hand.

The FACT of the matter is these are NOT hands on AUDITS and therefore the numbers are no more than chicken scratch.

[bimetalaupt]

May 10, 2011 13:13:11 GMT -5 @franktheimpaler said:

HELP!!!....THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED>>>BY A GOLD BUG!!!

Frank,
My point in this was that if it was not for the Flexibility of the "Debt Reserve " system the NYFRB could not have lent about $400 billion to the European Banking system in direct loans and via Currency swaps with the ECB.. They made a ton of money on the deal, just look at the interest they charged Spain.

Just a thought,
BiMetalAuPt aka Bruce

[sangria]

"Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves."




Thanks Bi for the post. That is a great quote. Keep the good stuff coming.





Run for your lives! It's the hijacking gold bug!

[Virgil Showlion]

Decoy, your reply #40 was over the top. Do it again in the month of May and you get time off.

- Virgil (Mod)

[bimetalaupt]

May 10, 2011 12:24:05 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

My point was the USD is backed with Gold and the EURO is not

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF?

Maui1,
...it looks good on paper with huge 347 Million oz Troy on the books..For the records.. So my statement was off key.. I was wrong..524 Billion USD worth of gold .. me bad

Bi Metal Au Pt
2011-03 2011-02 2011-01 2010-12 2010-11 2010-10
1. Official reserve assets and other foreign currency assets (approximate market value)
1.1. Official reserve assets 572,807 577,536 562,299 591,201 597,519 555,566
1.1.1. Foreign currency reserves (in convertible foreign currencies) 148,262 153,523 155,304 155,043 158,398 149,929
1.1.1.1. Securities 124,430 131,918 131,309 131,277 132,222 125,026
1.1.1.2. Total currency and deposits 23,832 21,605 23,996 23,766 26,176 24,903
1.1.1.2.1. With other national central banks, BIS and IMF 5,603 7,559 6,587 7,723 5,971 5,937
1.1.1.2.2. With banks headquartered in the euro area and located abroad 1,608 1,334 1,142 2,690 2,617 3,427
1.1.1.2.3. With banks headquartered and located outside the euro area 16,621 12,712 16,267 13,353 17,588 15,538
1.1.2. IMF reserve position 21,586 16,638 17,015 15,795 15,233 15,057
1.1.3. SDRs 51,121 53,227 53,490 54,204 54,815 52,997
1.1.4. Gold (including gold deposits and gold swapped) 351,458 353,909 336,293 366,190 369,335 337,241
1.1.4.1. Volume in millions of fine troy ounces 346.988 346.986 346.987 346.962 346.991 346.994
1.1.5. Other reserve assets 379 239 197 -31 -261 343
1.1.5.1. Of which financial derivatives 378 238 196 -32 -263 342
1.2. Other foreign currency assets 21,275 23,204 24,145 26,349 25,869 25,921
1.2.1. Securities not included in official reserve assets 10,994 11,067 10,987 11,493 12,149 11,473
1.2.2. Deposits not included in official reserve assets 9,877 11,773 12,810 14,699 13,718 14,032
1.2.3. Loans not included in official reserve assets 194 201 202 202 198 198
1.2.4. Financial derivatives not included in official reserve assets 209 162 146 -46 -197 217
2. Predetermined short-term net drains on foreign currency assets (nominal value)
2.1. Foreign currency loans, securities and deposits -376 -356 -325 -511 -571 -794
2.2. Aggregate short and long position in forwards and futures in foreign currencies vis-à-vis the domestic currency (including the forward leg of currency swaps) -8,304 -7,132 -7,707 -7,548 -9,256 -8,815
2.3. Other -23,787 -16,766 -18,948 -16,311 -14,145 -14,044

Statistical Data Warehouse - Interactive data access

[bimetalaupt]

Frank,
Greek debt.. the story that will kill the ECB balance sheet.. Germany and Finland will also have huge dents in their assets also on the books of the banks if they do not do something.

Just a thought.. Just in..

Bi Metal Au Pt..
FRANKFURT (Dow Jones)--Four senior European Central Bank officials spoke out strongly against a Greek debt restructuring Tuesday, seeking to put a lid on the continent's worsening debt crisis as the bank prepares to raise interest rates again.

Speaking at an event in Florence, Lorenzo Bini Smaghi, Italy's member on the ECB executive board, said a sovereign debt restructuring in the euro-zone would be "wrong," lead "many into poverty" and amount to "political suicide" for the government involved.

Allowing Greece to default would create a reverse moral hazard, encouraging countries towards insolvency procedures as soon as they have problems paying back their debts, Bini Smaghi said.

Yves Mersch, a member of the ECB's Governing Council, told reporters at the same event that a Greek debt restructuring or default is "not an option".

In a separate interview Tuesday, executive board member Juergen Stark said restructuring Greece's debt won't address the country's structural problems.

While Greece is highly indebted, the country isn't insolvent, and the bailout and fiscal reform measures put in place by the International Monetary Fund and European Union are "realistic," Stark said.

Meanwhile, governing council member Ewald Nowotny said a restructuring of Greece's sovereign debt would only deepen the country's crisis, hitting banks in Greece and elsewhere in the euro zone.

The comments come amid signs that Europe's sovereign-debt crisis is worsening again despite agreement on a rescue package for Portugal.

On Monday, U.S. credit ratings agency Standard & Poor's downgraded Greece's sovereign rating again, to B. Senior Greek officials told Dow Jones earlier Tuesday they expect a new package of nearly EUR60 billion in financial aid to cover the country's financial needs stretching into 2013 as early as next month.

The problems on Europe's periphery create a dilemma for the ECB, which is keen to raise rates from the current historically low level.

The central bank left its main interest rate on hold at 1.25% this month and toned down its anti-inflation rhetoric despite mounting inflationary pressures in the currency bloc.

ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet insisted that fragility on the euro-zone's periphery was "absolutely not" a factor in deciding not to raise rates again, following a 25-basis-point hike in April.

Still, analysts say the ECB would prefer to see stabilization on the continent's periphery before hiking rates further , to avoid stifling any nascent economic recovery. Higher rates would probably dent consumer spending in countries such as Greece, Ireland and Spain, where many mortgages and consumer loans are linked to shorter interest rates, according to analysts.

The ECB has other reasons to worry about a debt restructuring on Europe's periphery--76 billion of them, to be precise. That is the size, in euros, of the bank's Securities Markets Program, through which it has supported peripheral euro-zone bond markets by buying government debt. Any restructuring-linked discount on that debt risks putting a sizeable dent in the ECB's balance sheet. ( THIS WILL SURE HURT THE VALUE OF THE EURO.. PARITY $1= 1 EURO REAL SOON,JAT,BI)

[bimetalaupt]

May 10, 2011 19:59:52 GMT -5 @franktheimpaler said:

Did you see my debt..."breakdown" on the other PIIG thread?

Frank,
Do we add the 76 Billion Euro debt to the ECB to this?

For the record .. this is what Frank is talking about.. Great Data.. Problem is low Greek productivity!! see Chart!!
Bruce
Lets just look at Greece...IF they default[image]

They owe $72 Billion to the banks[image]
They owe $165 Billion to private companies[image]
They owe $98 Billion to France[image]
They owe $165 Billion to Germany[image]

This is why by Monday they will have new financing....now lets talk about Ireland....and all the other little PIIGIES....please read post #1 [image]

Attachments:

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

That's why I you B!! You da man, and a little k

I just feel sorry for China, more greek bonds with their trade surplus.. Oh wait.. I read that Goldman is going long on US debt now. QE3 might be dead.

[The Virginian]

QE3 might be dead.

NOOOOOOOOO! It can't be !!!