Interest rates increase to nearly 35% on Macy's store CCs

[nidena]

It's not the kiddos that have the most debt.  It's us GenX folx.

Here’s how much credit card debt Americans have by age—and which generation owes the most

[TheOtherMe]

There are times in people's lives when credit card debt becomes the only answer.  Like medical debt.  

My parents didn't have credit cards when I was growing up.  They used the envelope method.  Once the envelope for that category was gone, that was it.  

Their debt was their mortgage and their cars.  

We definitely lived paycheck to paycheck and they said they couldn't save extra for retirement until my sister and I left home.  

Neither one of them ever made good money, so I think they did quite well for themselves.  They paid cash for the two houses they owned after the one where I grew up was paid off.  They were paying cash for cars in their later years.  They gave up their only credit card.  

They only got the card because they went to Las Vegas and could not rent a car because they had no credit card.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 12, 2024 9:35:30 GMT -5 nidena said:

Jul 12, 2024 9:25:46 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That is not sustainable and is what will keep them in poverty forever.  What did people do before credit cards?

They stayed in miserable marriages so that they had the extra income because single mothers would not have been able to get them.

I think it's a stretch to say credit cards saved single moms. That's like saying alcohol is a cure for depression.  Sure it might make everything better...that night.

I'm a GenX single mom.  My mom was also a single mom (divorced when I was 2).

[Opti]

Jul 12, 2024 9:52:48 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Not going to get into the CC debate, but my DS(22YO) makes $16/hour in a retail position, averaging @36 hours/week. He shares a 2 bedroom apartment with his sister that is about 2 miles from his work and about 4 miles from her work. Largest grocery store is within 1 mile. The only utility covered in his rent is water. He has zero debt and savings in the 5 digits. The savings only occurred over the last 2 years, when he first moved out on his own. He may not live in the best part of town, but he is also not living in the worst part of town. And this is in a HCOLA area.

His car was a hand me down from DH and I but he keeps up with the maintenance and drives so little that there is no reason that it should not last him a very long time.

It may not be comfortable, but it can be done. I used to harp on him about getting a second part time job, but he is doing just fine. 

Anyone can find a reason to be in CC debt but it is more more difficult to choose not to be in CC debt, IMO. 

Agree with the first part But not sure what the second part is trying to say.
Why I avoid YM in specific is there seems to be the false belief that a perfect life can be run and you can avoid being shoved out of your job because of mergers, and all things can be anticipated.

I was very near the epicenter of Ida the storm in NJ. It may have been a blessing the Ice Queen fired me when she did. Water built up in places it never had, people lost their lives. One died, and was never found on a road I took regularly when I worked at the facility. True.

So I thankfully have not lost everything physically, as possessions, just my car ... so please explain how all the people who managed to save their lives but not their stuff including pets, money, and documents are going to survive until FEMA and insurance money kicks in ... especially if they have to bury a kid, their favorite grandmother along with all of it? You can find all sorts of interesting disasters on NJ12, a local NJ news station. Car plowed into a garage early this morning in town Z. Oops that's a load bearing garage and town officials have just condemned that house as a place to live. What's your next move? What if you just used almost all your efund on removing a tree that started taking out that garage a couple months ago?

Life Happens. There is a reason the annual raft trip I went on had this slogan, 'Today is a good day to die'. 
Because you never know, and those waivers aren't just for fun. Any good raft guide can tell you about recent deaths on the river and I remember one of our peeps being sucked into a big ass hole of water. He did pop out eventually, and I am thankful for all of us there was no ambulance or death on the river that needed to be dealt with.

[Opti]

Jul 12, 2024 9:59:00 GMT -5 nidena said:

It's not the kiddos that have the most debt.  It's us GenX folx.

Here’s how much credit card debt Americans have by age—and which generation owes the most

Actually lots of us at the end of the Boom probably have it worse overall, but its pretty crappy for a certain segment of the population.

FWIW, I don't think it breaks along these contrived generational boundaries. Its super hard to track through federal stats. They don't track generations, just the usual demographic breakdowns, i.e. 50-59, or 50-54, 55-59 if they are trying to hard to track things. For covid, the usual 65 and over bin became broken down more because it turned out there was a medical difference in general from 65 to young 70s. 75 to 84, and 85 and up. PMD probably knows more about the changing research on that. I just followed it to stay alive as I was late 50s into 60s when the pandemic wanted to happen.

Medical difference translation - rate of deaths, rates of hospitalization, likliness of surving a case of Covid etc.

[nidena]

Jul 12, 2024 10:10:22 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 12, 2024 9:35:30 GMT -5 nidena said:

They stayed in miserable marriages so that they had the extra income because single mothers would not have been able to get them.

I think it's a stretch to say credit cards saved single moms. That's like saying alcohol is a cure for depression.  Sure it might make everything better...that night.

I'm a GenX single mom.  My mom was also a single mom (divorced when I was 2).

At no point did I say CCs saved single moms.  That's a good leap though.  I said they stayed in shitty marriages to have an income.  Divorces were extremely low until women weren't economically forced to stay in marriages.  Being able to get credit cards HELPED with that.

[daisylu]

Jul 12, 2024 9:59:00 GMT -5 nidena said:

It's not the kiddos that have the most debt.  It's us GenX folx.

Here’s how much credit card debt Americans have by age—and which generation owes the most

Which is probably the kids do not. They have seen the toll that debt takes on people/families/relationships.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 12, 2024 10:21:40 GMT -5 nidena said:

Jul 12, 2024 10:10:22 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I think it's a stretch to say credit cards saved single moms. That's like saying alcohol is a cure for depression.  Sure it might make everything better...that night.

I'm a GenX single mom.  My mom was also a single mom (divorced when I was 2).

At no point did I say CCs saved single moms.  That's a good leap though.  I said they stayed in shitty marriages to have an income.  Divorces were extremely low until women weren't economically forced to stay in marriages.  Being able to get credit cards HELPED with that.

But it is having a job that empowered women to leave marriages, not credit cards. You stated that before credit cards, they were forced to stay in miserable marriages.

[nidena]

Jul 12, 2024 10:31:40 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 12, 2024 10:21:40 GMT -5 nidena said:

At no point did I say CCs saved single moms.  That's a good leap though.  I said they stayed in shitty marriages to have an income.  Divorces were extremely low until women weren't economically forced to stay in marriages.  Being able to get credit cards HELPED with that.

But it is having a job that empowered women to leave marriages, not credit cards. You stated that before credit cards, they were forced to stay in miserable marriages.

Well, it's a mix of things.  The Fair Credit Act of 1974 helped which came not long after the allowance of no-fault divorces.  So...not having to prove there was misdoings, having a job, having access to credit all lead to more divorces.

If my initial statement was misleading and caused the erroneous leap, I apologize.

[daisylu]

Jul 12, 2024 10:11:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 12, 2024 9:52:48 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Not going to get into the CC debate, but my DS(22YO) makes $16/hour in a retail position, averaging @36 hours/week. He shares a 2 bedroom apartment with his sister that is about 2 miles from his work and about 4 miles from her work. Largest grocery store is within 1 mile. The only utility covered in his rent is water. He has zero debt and savings in the 5 digits. The savings only occurred over the last 2 years, when he first moved out on his own. He may not live in the best part of town, but he is also not living in the worst part of town. And this is in a HCOLA area.

His car was a hand me down from DH and I but he keeps up with the maintenance and drives so little that there is no reason that it should not last him a very long time.

It may not be comfortable, but it can be done. I used to harp on him about getting a second part time job, but he is doing just fine. 

Anyone can find a reason to be in CC debt but it is more more difficult to choose not to be in CC debt, IMO. 

Agree with the first part But not sure what the second part is trying to say.
Why I avoid YM in specific is there seems to be the false belief that a perfect life can be run and you can avoid being shoved out of your job because of mergers, and all things can be anticipated.

I was very near the epicenter of Ida the storm in NJ. It may have been a blessing the Ice Queen fired me when she did. Water built up in places it never had, people lost their lives. One died, and was never found on a road I took regularly when I worked at the facility. True.

So I thankfully have not lost everything physically, as possessions, just my car ... so please explain how all the people who managed to save their lives but not their stuff including pets, money, and documents are going to survive until FEMA and insurance money kicks in ... especially if they have to bury a kid, their favorite grandmother along with all of it? You can find all sorts of interesting disasters on NJ12, a local NJ news station. Car plowed into a garage early this morning in town Z. Oops that's a load bearing garage and town officials have just condemned that house as a place to live. What's your next move? What if you just used almost all your efund on removing a tree that started taking out that garage a couple months ago?

Life Happens. There is a reason the annual raft trip I went on had this slogan, 'Today is a good day to die'. 
Because you never know, and those waivers aren't just for fun. Any good raft guide can tell you about recent deaths on the river and I remember one of our peeps being sucked into a big ass hole of water. He did pop out eventually, and I am thankful for all of us there was no ambulance or death on the river that needed to be dealt with.

The second relates to having to make tough decisions to avoid going into debt. IE - not living in the best neighborhoods, not eating out or eating expensive foods, having to have roommates, using free libraries for entertainment instead of expensive cable packages, delayed gratification, etc.

As for explaining, there is no explaining. Every situation is different. Shitty things that are outside of people's control happen all the time. My parents got married at 17YO and 18YO. 3 years later, they had to bury a 2 month old son that died from SIDS. Dad found him the crib, already blue. They borrowed money to buy a gravesite, one that went without any sort of marker for DECADES because there was no money for it. It only got one then because DGF left money for it in his will. Both parents were back to work within a week because they had no other way to pay their bills and keep a roof over their and their DD's heads. Did it suck? Yes. But sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do in order to take care of things.

Like the first part of my last statement alluded to, some people with an EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jul 12, 2024 10:40:14 GMT -5 nidena said:

Jul 12, 2024 10:31:40 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

But it is having a job that empowered women to leave marriages, not credit cards. You stated that before credit cards, they were forced to stay in miserable marriages.

Well, it's a mix of things.  The Fair Credit Act of 1974 helped which came not long after the allowance of no-fault divorces.  So...not having to prove there was misdoings, having a job, having access to credit all lead to more divorces.

If my initial statement was misleading and caused the erroneous leap, I apologize.

I can see what you were meaning.....having the ability to get a credit card/establish credit.....not carrying a balance/paying interest...

Although, come to think of it, I paid for my divorce on a credit card. Took a while to pay off. Best investment I ever made!

[tractor]

Being very cruel...the only ones who will be really sad when my dad passes will be the credit card companies. He has no assets, and owes twice his annual SS income on his credit cards. It's a situation he created, and I have no doubt the interest rates he's being charged on those balances are more than the minimum payment he's able to make each month.

[andi9899]

Jul 12, 2024 10:29:25 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Jul 12, 2024 9:59:00 GMT -5 nidena said:

It's not the kiddos that have the most debt.  It's us GenX folx.

Here’s how much credit card debt Americans have by age—and which generation owes the most

Which is probably the kids do not. They have seen the toll that debt takes on people/families/relationships.

For now. As GenX's kids grow up and move out, we'll have more disposable income to pay back debts and make better choices and pay cash for things. I've always been a single mom and when the girls were younger and depended 100% on me, I was BROKE. Now that they're out or at least self sufficient, I have money again. My income has been increasing over the years and I no longer have debt or money issues. In several years, it will be GenZ who has all the debt because they will be the ones with kids depending on them for everything.

ETA: Sorry, I meant to reply to the post you quoted, not yours.

[busymom]

Jul 12, 2024 9:25:46 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 12, 2024 9:16:59 GMT -5 nidena said:

Target has nearly the same rate on its CC--29.95--so let's look at it from that perspective since they DO sell actual necessities.

The employee discount is only 10%.  That covers tax in most cases.  It doesn't actually make the item less expensive.

There is an additional "discount" for using the CC

Target pays their *visible* employees an average of $16/hr.  FT is ~35 hr/wk.   

After rent, transportation, utilities, etc there isn't much cash left in the bank account.  The employee is now compelled to use their CC to buy groceries and everything else for their household.

Sure, they could shop somewhere else but they won't even get tax covered if they shop elsewhere.

The combination of low wages and corporate greed will keep folx in a cycle of poverty damn near forever.

That is not sustainable and is what will keep them in poverty forever.  What did people do before credit cards?

  1.  Ask family or friends for help.

  2.  Not have enough food at home.

  3.  Steal

  No, I don't recommend option #3, but I believe I recently witnessed shoplifting at a dollar store. (Yes, a DOLLAR STORE.) It was by someone who appeared homeless (we've got a number of homeless folks hanging around our community right now, who will probably disappear once the temps get colder).  As the safety net disappears, and costs go up, I do believe we're going to see more people shoplifting, and stealing from those of us who appear to have a bit more.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 12, 2024 12:17:51 GMT -5 busymom said:

Jul 12, 2024 9:25:46 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

That is not sustainable and is what will keep them in poverty forever.  What did people do before credit cards?

  1.  Ask family or friends for help.

  2.  Not have enough food at home.

  3.  Steal

  No, I don't recommend option #3, but I believe I recently witnessed shoplifting at a dollar store. (Yes, a DOLLAR STORE.) It was by someone who appeared homeless (we've got a number of homeless folks hanging around our community right now, who will probably disappear once the temps get colder).  As the safety net disappears, and costs go up, I do believe we're going to see more people shoplifting, and stealing from those of us who appear to have a bit more.  

Those are three options.  I'll argue there are a lot more though.

[swamp]

Jul 12, 2024 11:19:47 GMT -5 tractor said:

Being very cruel...the only ones who will be really sad when my dad passes will be the credit card companies. He has no assets, and owes twice his annual SS income on his credit cards. It's a situation he created, and I have no doubt the interest rates he's being charged on those balances are more than the minimum payment he's able to make each month.

And yet the credit card companies still gave him the cards.   I don't feel bad for them.  

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 12, 2024 14:20:32 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jul 12, 2024 11:19:47 GMT -5 tractor said:

Being very cruel...the only ones who will be really sad when my dad passes will be the credit card companies. He has no assets, and owes twice his annual SS income on his credit cards. It's a situation he created, and I have no doubt the interest rates he's being charged on those balances are more than the minimum payment he's able to make each month.

And yet the credit card companies still gave him the cards.   I don't feel bad for them.  

Unsecured credit cards were given to my Rep Payee client who had income of about $750 per month.  That was against the rules of the program of her being in the Rep Payee program.  So she did have to close the card and pay it back to stay in the program.

It left her with very little spending money because she charged it to the max and the interest rate was ridiculous

[Artemis Windsong]

Jul 12, 2024 9:25:46 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 12, 2024 9:16:59 GMT -5 nidena said:

Target has nearly the same rate on its CC--29.95--so let's look at it from that perspective since they DO sell actual necessities.

The employee discount is only 10%.  That covers tax in most cases.  It doesn't actually make the item less expensive.

There is an additional "discount" for using the CC

Target pays their *visible* employees an average of $16/hr.  FT is ~35 hr/wk.   

After rent, transportation, utilities, etc there isn't much cash left in the bank account.  The employee is now compelled to use their CC to buy groceries and everything else for their household.

Sure, they could shop somewhere else but they won't even get tax covered if they shop elsewhere.

The combination of low wages and corporate greed will keep folx in a cycle of poverty damn near forever.

That is not sustainable and is what will keep them in poverty forever.  What did people do before credit cards?

What people did before cc was pay cash or do without.

My mother had a disastrous charge account with a local grocer.  My az hat brother was buying donuts every day for his buddies.  I was under ten when I started harping about her closing that account after I went with her to the office of that grocer.  There was a $400 charge on it.  That was in the 1950s  She did close it then the grocer called and said someone had charged on her account.  So someone outside the immediately family was also charging on her account.  IDK if there was an interest rate charged on that account.

[Artemis Windsong]

Jul 12, 2024 10:05:56 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

There are times in people's lives when credit card debt becomes the only answer.  Like medical debt.  

My parents didn't have credit cards when I was growing up.  They used the envelope method.  Once the envelope for that category was gone, that was it.  

Their debt was their mortgage and their cars.  

We definitely lived paycheck to paycheck and they said they couldn't save extra for retirement until my sister and I left home.  

Neither one of them ever made good money, so I think they did quite well for themselves.  They paid cash for the two houses they owned after the one where I grew up was paid off.  They were paying cash for cars in their later years.  They gave up their only credit card.  

They only got the card because they went to Las Vegas and could not rent a car because they had no credit card.  

I have a friend in her 60s who started using the envelope method saying it really helped.  I was floored. 

[Opti]

Jul 12, 2024 10:52:13 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Jul 12, 2024 10:11:45 GMT -5 Opti said:

Agree with the first part But not sure what the second part is trying to say.
Why I avoid YM in specific is there seems to be the false belief that a perfect life can be run and you can avoid being shoved out of your job because of mergers, and all things can be anticipated.

I was very near the epicenter of Ida the storm in NJ. It may have been a blessing the Ice Queen fired me when she did. Water built up in places it never had, people lost their lives. One died, and was never found on a road I took regularly when I worked at the facility. True.

So I thankfully have not lost everything physically, as possessions, just my car ... so please explain how all the people who managed to save their lives but not their stuff including pets, money, and documents are going to survive until FEMA and insurance money kicks in ... especially if they have to bury a kid, their favorite grandmother along with all of it? You can find all sorts of interesting disasters on NJ12, a local NJ news station. Car plowed into a garage early this morning in town Z. Oops that's a load bearing garage and town officials have just condemned that house as a place to live. What's your next move? What if you just used almost all your efund on removing a tree that started taking out that garage a couple months ago?

Life Happens. There is a reason the annual raft trip I went on had this slogan, 'Today is a good day to die'. 
Because you never know, and those waivers aren't just for fun. Any good raft guide can tell you about recent deaths on the river and I remember one of our peeps being sucked into a big ass hole of water. He did pop out eventually, and I am thankful for all of us there was no ambulance or death on the river that needed to be dealt with.

The second relates to having to make tough decisions to avoid going into debt. IE - not living in the best neighborhoods, not eating out or eating expensive foods, having to have roommates, using free libraries for entertainment instead of expensive cable packages, delayed gratification, etc.

As for explaining, there is no explaining. Every situation is different. Shitty things that are outside of people's control happen all the time. My parents got married at 17YO and 18YO. 3 years later, they had to bury a 2 month old son that died from SIDS. Dad found him the crib, already blue. They borrowed money to buy a gravesite, one that went without any sort of marker for DECADES because there was no money for it. It only got one then because DGF left money for it in his will. Both parents were back to work within a week because they had no other way to pay their bills and keep a roof over their and their DD's heads. Did it suck? Yes. But sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do in order to take care of things.

Like the first part of my last statement alluded to, some people with an EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING. 

Look up and read about IDA and what happened in NJ in specific and NYC etc. if you will enjoy that more. The people in Manville for example were already living in the cheapest housing in the area. Same with all those flooded basement apartments in NYC and NJ.

One of the first storms that flooded CNJ when I moved here took out a good portion of Bound Brook, NJ. Fire peeps were rescuing residents from rental homes/apartments on the river. Some were fully flooded up to the start of the second floor and for a bonus some were on fire as well. It was pretty horrifying. 

[Opti]

EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING.

And some people are in denial about RL in America right now, in 2024.
But if you prefer history, there's always Katrina and the differing responses for various parishes depending on racial makeup.

[Opti]

But Daisylu, b4 me and my donated walker try our first trip, what have YOU actually done?

My mother was born in part of the Depression years, early 1930s. 
She made our clothes, refinished our furniture, and was very creative with meals.
What we ate may have been responsible for some of my health issues as it was very dairy heavy.
Chipped beef with white sauce on toast.
Grilled cheese sandwiches with tomato soup
Banquet pot pies were actually a treat.

I've taken crap jobs since 9/11 due to where I physically live, tristate area, and the changing beliefs on who is good at IT
among other things. I have been using food pantries since mid naughts. 


Gotta go, Purple Rain is playing on the radio. Please do not quote, as I probably shouldn't have let you 
goad me into replying. Might delete, OK Moon?

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 12, 2024 18:03:22 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Jul 12, 2024 10:05:56 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

There are times in people's lives when credit card debt becomes the only answer.  Like medical debt.  

My parents didn't have credit cards when I was growing up.  They used the envelope method.  Once the envelope for that category was gone, that was it.  

Their debt was their mortgage and their cars.  

We definitely lived paycheck to paycheck and they said they couldn't save extra for retirement until my sister and I left home.  

Neither one of them ever made good money, so I think they did quite well for themselves.  They paid cash for the two houses they owned after the one where I grew up was paid off.  They were paying cash for cars in their later years.  They gave up their only credit card.  

They only got the card because they went to Las Vegas and could not rent a car because they had no credit card.  

I have a friend in her 60s who started using the envelope method saying it really helped.  I was floored. 

My 90 year old cousin never made more than minimum wage in her life.  She retired many years ago when minimum wage was about $2.50 an hour or so.  She did prep and served on buffet lines.  That is not a job where tips are given.

She used the envelope method her entire working life and still does.  

By using the envelope method and not having a car because she could never afford one, she was finally able to save enough money for a very small house and paid cash for it.  The freeway in Des Moines came and took her house.  With that money, she paid cash for another very small house.  

The buses in Des Moines were terrible as far as schedules.  She had to live near a bus line.  There were times when she spent over an hour each way riding the bus to and from work.  She had no other way to get there.  

When she first moved to Des Moines, she rented an apartment from an uncle on her dad's side.  I did not know until recently that because she was "family", she paid market rent but had to either have a roommate or the smallest efficiency he had available.  She also had to share a bathroom until she bought her own place.  I was in high school when she bought her first house.  I had no idea she was sharing a bathroom in the apartment in her uncle's house.

My parents took her with them to visit me in Boulder.  Mom told me they stayed at a motel on the way out and when they were taking stuff into the room for the night, cousin asked me what she should do with her sock.  Mom asked her what was in it.  It was her entire life savings.  Mom took it in to the room and when they got back to Des Moines, they talked her in to getting it into a bank.

Now she doesn't like direct deposit because she doesn't trust it.  She lost a check this past spring that was interest on CDs from her bank.  Bank cancelled the check and set it up for direct  deposit.  She keeps asking what if it doesn't get there.  It didn't get there when the check was lost.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jul 13, 2024 10:17:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Jul 12, 2024 18:03:22 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

I have a friend in her 60s who started using the envelope method saying it really helped.  I was floored. 

My 90 year old cousin never made more than minimum wage in her life.  She retired many years ago when minimum wage was about $2.50 an hour or so.  She did prep and served on buffet lines.  That is not a job where tips are given.

She used the envelope method her entire working life and still does.  

By using the envelope method and not having a car because she could never afford one, she was finally able to save enough money for a very small house and paid cash for it.  The freeway in Des Moines came and took her house.  With that money, she paid cash for another very small house.  

The buses in Des Moines were terrible as far as schedules.  She had to live near a bus line.  There were times when she spent over an hour each way riding the bus to and from work.  She had no other way to get there.  

When she first moved to Des Moines, she rented an apartment from an uncle on her dad's side.  I did not know until recently that because she was "family", she paid market rent but had to either have a roommate or the smallest efficiency he had available.  She also had to share a bathroom until she bought her own place.  I was in high school when she bought her first house.  I had no idea she was sharing a bathroom in the apartment in her uncle's house.

My parents took her with them to visit me in Boulder.  Mom told me they stayed at a motel on the way out and when they were taking stuff into the room for the night, cousin asked me what she should do with her sock.  Mom asked her what was in it.  It was her entire life savings.  Mom took it in to the room and when they got back to Des Moines, they talked her in to getting it into a bank.

Now she doesn't like direct deposit because she doesn't trust it.  She lost a check this past spring that was interest on CDs from her bank.  Bank cancelled the check and set it up for direct  deposit.  She keeps asking what if it doesn't get there.  It didn't get there when the check was lost.  

I have never understood trusting USPS and checks over electronic payments and direct deposit.  So much more can go wrong in the days (weeks!) that your payment is out of your control. Give me instant transfer and confirmation please and thank you.

YNAB is basically virtual envelopes within your account(s). If you use up the money in one you either have to do without or steal from another category to balance things out again.  I started with it in 2007 and it completely turned my finances around. Prior to that I just had a one pot savings that wasn't allocated to anything, but I was always afraid to use it.  Now besides all the necessary categories, there is also pots for vacation, and fun stuff.  No guilt using it if that's what it's there for. 

 

[seriousthistime]

Jul 13, 2024 8:36:10 GMT -5 Opti said:

<poof> You did not wish to be quoted. 

What have we, personally, done?  

When I was pregnant with child #2, XH decided we should move out of state for his career.  His new salary just covered housing in a HCOL area.  I had to find a crap job and pay for all the other expenses - utilities, day care for child #1, a commute to new work place, get clothes that actually would fit my expanding body (thrift shops), car repairs on his old BMW, etc.  And buy all the food.   The grocery budget was so tight that I took lunch to work every day.  It was always a small avocado and cream cheese sandwich. I could make a couple of avocados and 8 oz of cream cheese last the work week.  I would raid pockets and couch cushions to find change to buy an extra quart of milk.  It was no way to "eat for two." 

Growing up, my widowed mother was not disciplined financially. There wasn't much money and it wasn't always put to good use. She drove a beater car.  First, the passenger door wouldn't latch so she needed a passenger (as the oldest, that would be me) to ride whenever she drove anywhere.  I'd hang on tight to the door, and when she'd take a corner the door would sometimes try to open up. This was in the days before seat belts.  It got more interesting when the ignition key wouldn't stay in the on position and I had to hold the key in position. Left hand on the key, right hand on the door. 

I could tell you many stories of those days.  I had to become a mini adult at the age of 7.  Babysitter to two younger siblings. Making simple meals. Spending school vacations doing a deep clean in the house and catching up on the ironing. Going to work part time at age 14, not to help support the family per se but to earn money my mother could borrow until the next SS check. 

Please don't make the mistake to think that those of us who now have it easier than you have not endured hardship in our lives. 

[daisylu]

Jul 13, 2024 8:06:44 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 12, 2024 10:52:13 GMT -5 daisylu said:

The second relates to having to make tough decisions to avoid going into debt. IE - not living in the best neighborhoods, not eating out or eating expensive foods, having to have roommates, using free libraries for entertainment instead of expensive cable packages, delayed gratification, etc.

As for explaining, there is no explaining. Every situation is different. Shitty things that are outside of people's control happen all the time. My parents got married at 17YO and 18YO. 3 years later, they had to bury a 2 month old son that died from SIDS. Dad found him the crib, already blue. They borrowed money to buy a gravesite, one that went without any sort of marker for DECADES because there was no money for it. It only got one then because DGF left money for it in his will. Both parents were back to work within a week because they had no other way to pay their bills and keep a roof over their and their DD's heads. Did it suck? Yes. But sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do in order to take care of things.

Like the first part of my last statement alluded to, some people with an EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING. 

Look up and read about IDA and what happened in NJ in specific and NYC etc. if you will enjoy that more. The people in Manville for example were already living in the cheapest housing in the area. Same with all those flooded basement apartments in NYC and NJ.

One of the first storms that flooded CNJ when I moved here took out a good portion of Bound Brook, NJ. Fire peeps were rescuing residents from rental homes/apartments on the river. Some were fully flooded up to the start of the second floor and for a bonus some were on fire as well. It was pretty horrifying. 

There is a huge wide world outside of your bubble where bad shit happens ALL THE TIME.

[daisylu]

Jul 13, 2024 8:10:15 GMT -5 Opti said:

EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING.

And some people are in denial about RL in America right now, in 2024.
But if you prefer history, there's always Katrina and the differing responses for various parishes depending on racial makeup.

 I am almost 50YO. I grew up in inner city Baltimore. I have lived a RL existence - down and dirty.  I then gave birth to 2 kids without partners. I did what I had to do to take care of my kids.  You are the one who likes to makes excuses. You are discriminated against as a white female by black managers. You are a rare unicorn in your educated field that you no longer use, but there is an excuse for that too. And bringing up Katrina and LA parishes does not negate your racist posts that you refuse to apologize for. 

[daisylu]

Jul 13, 2024 8:36:10 GMT -5 Opti said:

But Daisylu, b4 me and my donated walker try our first trip, what have YOU actually done?

My mother was born in part of the Depression years, early 1930s. 
She made our clothes, refinished our furniture, and was very creative with meals.
What we ate may have been responsible for some of my health issues as it was very dairy heavy.
Chipped beef with white sauce on toast.
Grilled cheese sandwiches with tomato soup
Banquet pot pies were actually a treat.

I've taken crap jobs since 9/11 due to where I physically live, tristate area, and the changing beliefs on who is good at IT
among other things. I have been using food pantries since mid naughts. 


Gotta go, Purple Rain is playing on the radio. Please do not quote, as I probably shouldn't have let you 
goad me into replying. Might delete, OK Moon?

My family lived like that too. We were the poorest of the poor. Gravy and bread were dinner many nights - no meat included. Please GTFOYS. 

[jerseygirl]

As for flooding houses in Bound Brook and Lincoln Park NJ, these houses have been repeatedly flooded every few years. The flooding is well known. No one is buying or renting there even if it’s cheap without knowing about flooding.
The state has been trying to buy out these houses for maybe 20 years. But many who own houses there don’t take advantage of the program. They say we love our little communities by the river, offer isn’t enough , etc etc
So every flood causes fire and police departments to rescue people , assist in pumping out houses etc
I used to feel bad for the misery caused by flooding but sorry they are choosing this

[TheOtherMe]

Jul 13, 2024 10:57:16 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 13, 2024 10:17:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

My 90 year old cousin never made more than minimum wage in her life.  She retired many years ago when minimum wage was about $2.50 an hour or so.  She did prep and served on buffet lines.  That is not a job where tips are given.

She used the envelope method her entire working life and still does.  

By using the envelope method and not having a car because she could never afford one, she was finally able to save enough money for a very small house and paid cash for it.  The freeway in Des Moines came and took her house.  With that money, she paid cash for another very small house.  

The buses in Des Moines were terrible as far as schedules.  She had to live near a bus line.  There were times when she spent over an hour each way riding the bus to and from work.  She had no other way to get there.  

When she first moved to Des Moines, she rented an apartment from an uncle on her dad's side.  I did not know until recently that because she was "family", she paid market rent but had to either have a roommate or the smallest efficiency he had available.  She also had to share a bathroom until she bought her own place.  I was in high school when she bought her first house.  I had no idea she was sharing a bathroom in the apartment in her uncle's house.

My parents took her with them to visit me in Boulder.  Mom told me they stayed at a motel on the way out and when they were taking stuff into the room for the night, cousin asked me what she should do with her sock.  Mom asked her what was in it.  It was her entire life savings.  Mom took it in to the room and when they got back to Des Moines, they talked her in to getting it into a bank.

Now she doesn't like direct deposit because she doesn't trust it.  She lost a check this past spring that was interest on CDs from her bank.  Bank cancelled the check and set it up for direct  deposit.  She keeps asking what if it doesn't get there.  It didn't get there when the check was lost.  

I have never understood trusting USPS and checks over electronic payments and direct deposit.  So much more can go wrong in the days (weeks!) that your payment is out of your control. Give me instant transfer and confirmation please and thank you.

YNAB is basically virtual envelopes within your account(s). If you use up the money in one you either have to do without or steal from another category to balance things out again.  I started with it in 2007 and it completely turned my finances around. Prior to that I just had a one pot savings that wasn't allocated to anything, but I was always afraid to use it.  Now besides all the necessary categories, there is also pots for vacation, and fun stuff.  No guilt using it if that's what it's there for. 

 

I will not trust USPS and checks over electronic payments anyday.  Now she doesn't have a smart phone or a computer, but she gets the bank statements in the mail or she can call and find out if the money is there.  

I don't get it at all, but that is the way she has always been.  I think since she went to assisted living, everything has been switched by her POA to electronic.  

I have a couple of bills that I can't receive electronically.  She probably had those with her house, but shouldn't have them now.