I stopped a fraudulent charge today.

[iono1]

In the past week I made 2 transactions with my debit card with places I haven't used before, so they're the main suspects.

Today I looked at my bank account on-line and saw a $1,700+ charge to my checking account.  To make matters worse, it created an overdraft which they lowered my available balance on my savings account on.  I immediately called the bank & they cancelled my debit card & will send me a new one.  However, when I was transferred to the fraud unit they would or could not stop the charge and wanted me to wait until the pending charge went final & then they told me I could file a fraud report.  I left the conversation pretty frustrated with the fraud unit.

One thing I noticed on the pending charge was the phone number of the vendor.  I called the vendor, explained that they had accepted a fraudulent charge. They looked up the charge by my name, found it, told me the e-mail address-which was my name & I told them none of my e-mail addresses use my full name.  I then asked where the merchandise was going & they told me Texas.  I told them I live in NY state & they knew that.  I also told them I don't know anyone in Texas. The vendor then cancelled the transaction, since the product had not been sent yet.  I looked at my account & the charge was gone.  

So, the bank couldn't stop the charge, but the vendor was able to stop it instantly.  I'm so glad I looked at my account & when the bank wanted me to go through a bureaucratic nightmare to fix the fraud, the vendor did it quickly.  

[bookkeeper]

This is why we purchase all we can on a credit card.  Debit cards are great for cash and as a back up, but scammers don't get access to my bank account, at least it has not happened yet.

I have had a Bank of America card that has been compromised three times in a row by the same entity.  Very frustrating.  I have decided to quit using it and ask for my annual fee back in a month or two.  The fraud happened immediately after my DH ordered a few things on Amazon.  We hardly ever order online, like I said very frustrating.

[Opti]

Congrats on catching the fraudulent charge and having the vendor address it. I think generally a bank can't stop a transaction like that because they have no legal authority to do so. Banking regulations make banks pay certain transactions like POS debits. I don't think they are allowed to stop them. Banking regulations do allow you to put a stop payment on a check but there isn't anything like that for debits. 

[busymom]

I'm sorry you went through this, iono1, but congratulations on your quick thinking!


I don't have a debit card, just because I've had my credit cards hacked a number of times.  I no longer use one of our neighborhood gas stations because I suspect they were part of the problem.  (Since I stopped using my card there, it was over a year before I got hacked again.)  It's a LOT easier to cancel a credit card & get the problem "fixed" than to deal with debit cards.  

[toomuchreality]

Whew! That was close!
Well done.

[daisylu]

Glad you caught it quickly and got the transaction stopped. 

I am another who only uses CCs for this reason. So much easier than trying to get money back once it goes through on a debit card. I have a debit card but only use it to withdraw cash at ATMs. 

[TheOtherMe]

Another one who only uses a debit card to withdraw cash at the bank ATM.  Not enough protection with a debit card.  

I also have it set up not to overdraft, so if I try to withdraw more cash than is in the account, it will be declined.

I also look at my bank and credit card accounts daily in hopes of catching anything bad quickly.

I also think the bank can't stop a transaction.  It has to be done from the vendor side.  

I get so many of those spammy invoices for purchasing McAfee, Geek Squad and Bitcoin.  They have a phone number to call.  I've seen on the news if you call the number to dispute, you are in trouble.  I do check my Paypal account to make sure nothing is going on there.  There was once a pending invoice for $4,000.  I clicked cancel and it went away and never returned.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 19, 2024 7:10:25 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Glad you caught it quickly and got the transaction stopped. 

I am another who only uses CCs for this reason. So much easier than trying to get money back once it goes through on a debit card. I have a debit card but only use it to withdraw cash at ATMs. 

Ditto.  I have been incredibly lucky in that my cards haven’t gotten hacked too frequently.  Last time, it was my AmEx card and I had *just* used it to pay for my NEXUS renewal.  Luckily, that charge went through ok before the card got shut down, but AmEx caught the fraud before I got a chance to catch it myself.  

My sister has had the worst luck, and I have finally convinced her to not use her debit card everywhere and anywhere.  

[pulmonarymd]

I am going through this. I only use my Debit card at banks and the dry cleaner. My wife looked at the account, and we had identical $485.20 charges. I had used my card at an out of town branch of my bank 6 days before, and then not since. Now going through the "we need to do an investigation" and if we do not agree we will keep the charges. Gotta love it.

[Opti]

PMD, have you contacted whoever charged you that $485.20 yet?

[MN-Investor]

I'm sorry for you - and for anyone - who has to go through the hassle of a hacked debit or credit card.

I'm another one who only uses credit cards, not debit cards. In fact, my bank once sent me a debit card and told me that it replaced my ATM card and it was so wonderful because I could use it for both shopping and taking money out of the ATM. I canceled that immediately and told them to reissue me an ATM card!

Besides not having a debit card, I also closely watch my credit card charges. You can have your credit card company notify you when you charge over a certain amount. I think I have my accounts set up to notify me of any charges over $1. Plus I would NEVER put my credit card statements on autopay. I go online to pay each one. I have a spreadsheet where I keep track of any upcoming payments - credit cards, property taxes, insurances, etc.

[Opti]

What federal protections cover consumers who use debit cards?


The federal Electronic Fund Transfer Act (EFTA) protects you from errors, loss or theft of your debit card. However, unlike the Truth in Lending Act protections for credit cards, which cap a consumer's liability for unauthorized transactions at $50, the law limits liability to $50 if the debit cardholder notifies the bank within two business days after discovering the theft. If you don't notify your bank within those two days, you could lose up to $500, or perhaps more. In the worst-case scenario — if you receive a bank statement that includes an unauthorized debit-card withdrawal and you wait more than 60 days to alert your bank — you could be liable for any amounts from transactions made after that 60-day period.

Under the EFTA, a bank has 10 business days to investigate the matter (20 business days if your account is new) and report back to you with its results. If the bank needs additional time, it may, under certain circumstances, temporarily give you some or all of the disputed amount until it finishes its investigation. Generally, a bank is allowed up to 45 days of additional investigation time (90 days for certain transactions). "But until the dispute is resolved," said Creamean, "you should be prepared to pay your mortgage, car payment, credit card bill and any other obligations that may come due." Also, she said, if the bank's investigation finds there was no error, theft or loss, it can take back the money it put into your account, after notifying you.


dfi.wa.gov/financial-education/information/debit-cards-frequently-asked-questions

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 19, 2024 11:30:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

PMD, have you contacted whoever charged you that $485.20 yet?

Don't know who the charge was, not listed on statement, and they haven't told us.

[Opti]

Jun 19, 2024 12:01:19 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 19, 2024 11:30:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

PMD, have you contacted whoever charged you that $485.20 yet?

Don't know who the charge was, not listed on statement, and they haven't told us.

That's scary. Do you have online banking or use their mobile banking app?

[jerseygirl]

Besides taking a long time to resolve debit card fraud, the fact that account balance decreases is scary. Could cause bounced checks, damage your credit etc
I only use debit card for the ATM. It’s never been hacked. My cc has but I have time to check cc often. When it has been hacked, maybe 4 times, bank resolves it quickly and sends out another cc fairly quickly. We have credit bureaus frozen
Dave Ramsey is adamant about only using debit cards. Another example of his poor advice. Also only mutual funds instead of ETFs. I do admire how he helps people focus on getting out of debt. But that’s it

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jun 19, 2024 11:40:18 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

I'm sorry for you - and for anyone - who has to go through the hassle of a hacked debit or credit card.

I'm another one who only uses credit cards, not debit cards. In fact, my bank once sent me a debit card and told me that it replaced my ATM card and it was so wonderful because I could use it for both shopping and taking money out of the ATM. I canceled that immediately and told them to reissue me an ATM card!

Besides not having a debit card, I also closely watch my credit card charges. You can have your credit card company notify you when you charge over a certain amount. I think I have my accounts set up to notify me of any charges over $1. Plus I would NEVER put my credit card statements on autopay. I go online to pay each one. I have a spreadsheet where I keep track of any upcoming payments - credit cards, property taxes, insurances, etc.

I have all my cards (debit and credit) set to text me whenever there's a charge of any amount.  But, why wouldn't you set up credit card payment on autopay?  I have all mine set to pay in case something happens to me, but I always go in early and pay them manually weeks ahead of the due date anyhow.  It's just a back up in case I end up like my ex in a hospital bed with a broken neck unable to operate a computer for several weeks.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 19, 2024 12:15:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 19, 2024 12:01:19 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Don't know who the charge was, not listed on statement, and they haven't told us.

That's scary. Do you have online banking or use their mobile banking app?



My wife found it on the app the day it was posted. Only said amount without other details. Came to find out there was also a currency exchange fee as well. I suspect there may have been a skimmer on the ATM, because as I said, I do not use it except at banks and at my locally owned dry cleaner who we have used for over 30 years. Otherwise it is CC all the way.

[iono1]

Update: There were 2 more charges pending this morning after I had contacted the bank yesterday ($629 & $160). The bank is closed today.  I sent a written message to the $629 company since they don't list a phone # and got a standard "we're looking into it" reply via e-mail & I spoke on the phone to the $160 company but that one is complicated because I have an account with them (T-Mobile) & they keep confusing the difference between my account & the fraudulent transaction, so I don't know what's happening because they kept transferring me around & the final transfer had a 30 minute wait time & I had to leave to meet a group for lunch & hung up. T-Mobile already took the fraud complaint before they tried to transfer me to my (unrelated to the transaction) account. 

[daisylu]

Jun 19, 2024 12:39:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 19, 2024 11:40:18 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

I'm sorry for you - and for anyone - who has to go through the hassle of a hacked debit or credit card.

I'm another one who only uses credit cards, not debit cards. In fact, my bank once sent me a debit card and told me that it replaced my ATM card and it was so wonderful because I could use it for both shopping and taking money out of the ATM. I canceled that immediately and told them to reissue me an ATM card!

Besides not having a debit card, I also closely watch my credit card charges. You can have your credit card company notify you when you charge over a certain amount. I think I have my accounts set up to notify me of any charges over $1. Plus I would NEVER put my credit card statements on autopay. I go online to pay each one. I have a spreadsheet where I keep track of any upcoming payments - credit cards, property taxes, insurances, etc.

I have all my cards (debit and credit) set to text me whenever there's a charge of any amount.  But, why wouldn't you set up credit card payment on autopay?  I have all mine set to pay in case something happens to me, but I always go in early and pay them manually weeks ahead of the due date anyhow.  It's just a back up in case I end up like my ex in a hospital bed with a broken neck unable to operate a computer for several weeks.

I can't deal with alerts like that. So you get alerted everytime you gas up? I don't have time for that. I don't do autopay to check for those things. Because I use CCs. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jun 19, 2024 14:22:12 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Jun 19, 2024 12:39:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I have all my cards (debit and credit) set to text me whenever there's a charge of any amount.  But, why wouldn't you set up credit card payment on autopay?  I have all mine set to pay in case something happens to me, but I always go in early and pay them manually weeks ahead of the due date anyhow.  It's just a back up in case I end up like my ex in a hospital bed with a broken neck unable to operate a computer for several weeks.

I can't deal with alerts like that. So you get alerted everytime you gas up? I don't have time for that. I don't do autopay to check for those things. Because I use CCs. 

Yeah...it's a text message once a week when I gas up.  Not exactly time consuming for me. In fact, I don't have to do anything except endure the momentary vibration on my wrist as I'm driving away.   But nobody is going to use any of my cards without me knowing about it.  I churn and have probably 15 of them just in a drawer. Most are locked, but the ones that I couldn't have alerts set on them just in case.

[resolution]

I don't have a debit or ATM card. It was a concession to my husband, who is a bit paranoid about fraudulent charges.  I pay for everything with my credit card and if I need cash I have to go into a bank and withdraw it from the teller. It was inconvenient before I retired, but now that I am retired I don't mind the walk to the bank.

[andi9899]

Jun 18, 2024 21:07:00 GMT -5 iono1 said:

In the past week I made 2 transactions with my debit card with places I haven't used before, so they're the main suspects.

Today I looked at my bank account on-line and saw a $1,700+ charge to my checking account.  To make matters worse, it created an overdraft which they lowered my available balance on my savings account on.  I immediately called the bank & they cancelled my debit card & will send me a new one.  However, when I was transferred to the fraud unit they would or could not stop the charge and wanted me to wait until the pending charge went final & then they told me I could file a fraud report.  I left the conversation pretty frustrated with the fraud unit.

One thing I noticed on the pending charge was the phone number of the vendor.  I called the vendor, explained that they had accepted a fraudulent charge. They looked up the charge by my name, found it, told me the e-mail address-which was my name & I told them none of my e-mail addresses use my full name.  I then asked where the merchandise was going & they told me Texas.  I told them I live in NY state & they knew that.  I also told them I don't know anyone in Texas. The vendor then cancelled the transaction, since the product had not been sent yet.  I looked at my account & the charge was gone.  

So, the bank couldn't stop the charge, but the vendor was able to stop it instantly.  I'm so glad I looked at my account & when the bank wanted me to go through a bureaucratic nightmare to fix the fraud, the vendor did it quickly.  

That's how I got my fraudulent charge stopped when it happened to me. Now I just use my credit card for everything. I use the tap feature whenever it's available. My debit card is only used for ATM withdrawals.

[TheOtherMe]

Jun 19, 2024 14:47:09 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 19, 2024 14:22:12 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I can't deal with alerts like that. So you get alerted everytime you gas up? I don't have time for that. I don't do autopay to check for those things. Because I use CCs. 

Yeah...it's a text message once a week when I gas up.  Not exactly time consuming for me. In fact, I don't have to do anything except endure the momentary vibration on my wrist as I'm driving away.   But nobody is going to use any of my cards without me knowing about it.  I churn and have probably 15 of them just in a drawer. Most are locked, but the ones that I couldn't have alerts set on them just in case.

My credit union sends an email when any money moves in my accounts.  I also receive daily summaries of what came in and out of various accounts.  

I had my dad's account set up the same way.  We did use his debit card when we were buying things for him.  We got lucky and nothing strange ever happened.  He never understood how they worked and would always ask "how much do I owe you".  Of course, he owed neither my sister nor I nothing and we didn't let him reimburse us for what he had already paid for.  

I took him almost weekly to the credit union so he could withdraw cash.  Around town, he paid for everything with cash except Dairy Queen, which was all of the gift cards we kept giving him.

He wrote so few checks that I already knew what should be coming out of the account each month.  

I did have to change to electronic statements for him when he started "losing" the bank statements.  He never missed them as dementia set in.  

I pay my credit cards throughout the month.  I don't like when they start to get very high.  So I have several payments a month to the cards I use regularly.

[MN-Investor]

Jun 19, 2024 12:39:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I have all my cards (debit and credit) set to text me whenever there's a charge of any amount.  But, why wouldn't you set up credit card payment on autopay?  I have all mine set to pay in case something happens to me, but I always go in early and pay them manually weeks ahead of the due date anyhow.  It's just a back up in case I end up like my ex in a hospital bed with a broken neck unable to operate a computer for several weeks.

Nope. Two reasons -

1) Autopay invites complacency. You get busy with other things and just let things go on autopilot and next thing you know your credit card is paid without you taking the time to review it and, for example, you miss the fact that that subscription you tried to cancel is still being charged.

2) If I'm in a hospital bed and can't use a computer, my credit card could be in the middle of a scam-storm and I wouldn't know it. If I'm on autopay and unable to review charges, I may end up having thousands of dollars of bogus charges that I'm automatically paying. My main credit card has a $15K limit; my two backup credit cards have $25K limits. Needless to say, I don't keep those kind of balances in my checking account. I'd rather deal with a late fee than a scam mess after the fact.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Jun 19, 2024 15:41:49 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

Jun 19, 2024 12:39:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I have all my cards (debit and credit) set to text me whenever there's a charge of any amount.  But, why wouldn't you set up credit card payment on autopay?  I have all mine set to pay in case something happens to me, but I always go in early and pay them manually weeks ahead of the due date anyhow.  It's just a back up in case I end up like my ex in a hospital bed with a broken neck unable to operate a computer for several weeks.

Nope. Two reasons -

1) Autopay invites complacency. You get busy with other things and just let things go on autopilot and next thing you know your credit card is paid without you taking the time to review it and, for example, you miss the fact that that subscription you tried to cancel is still being charged.

2) If I'm in a hospital bed and can't use a computer, my credit card could be in the middle of a scam-storm and I wouldn't know it. If I'm on autopay and unable to review charges, I may end up having thousands of dollars of bogus charges that I'm automatically paying. My main credit card has a $15K limit; my two backup credit cards have $25K limits. Needless to say, I don't keep those kind of balances in my checking account. I'd rather deal with a late fee than a scam mess after the fact.

Complacency definitely isn't an issue for me (financial complacency that is ).  I log into all my accounts every single day and download any transactions to YNAB. It's part of my evening wind down routine while watching TV. Despite having an ungodly amount of cards over the years I've only had fraudulent charges twice in probably the past 30 years, so I figure the odds are slim it would happen while I was also incapacitated. They're also only set to autopay the minimum, so the most any of them would draw from my checking is a few hundred dollars. I'm still semi-concerned about keeping my credit score high.  After I retire, I probably won't care as much about that anymore.

[iono1]

I just filed a report to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) listing the 3 transactions.  I want these people caught, but I doubt they will be.  I couldn't accuse the business that I think did this because I have no proof, but I have my suspicions since they were dishonest when I purchased an item from them that I had to return. 

[iono1]

I went in person to the bank today.  The cancelling of the card was still pending.  She put a rush order to block the card & then took the card for shredding & gave me a phone # to call since the bank farms out their fraud to a multi-bank fraud unit. I called the # & officially filed the fraud complaint on the 2 charges that showed up after I originally called to cancel the card. Then the fraud unit transferred me to someone who said the card was still open & they immediately blocked the card.  I don't know why my bank (actually a credit union) hadn't blocked everything when I called them 2 days ago on 6/18.  So now I'm waiting to get $789 and change back. It will take a while. At least I was able to stop the biggest charge of over $1,700. Tire Rack was the only company competent enough to cancel the charge immediately. By the time I got off the phone with them the pending charge had already disappeared from my bank account. 

[haapai]

Yours is a scary story.  You went above and beyond what people who were supposedly trained to deal with this asked of you and it still didn't stop the mess.  How in the name of holy things did they not cancel the card immediately?  

Obviously, this thievery was timed to a holiday.  

That's not a nice thing to be thinking as we approach the 4th. 

Have you given any thought to the possibility that your card was skimmed much earlier than last week and that the crooks waited until people would have some time off and banks would be closed to spring this? 

[iono1]

Jun 20, 2024 13:59:53 GMT -5 haapai said:

Yours is a scary story.  You went above and beyond what people who were supposedly trained to deal with this asked of you and it still didn't stop the mess.  How in the name of holy things did they not cancel the card immediately?  

Obviously, this thievery was timed to a holiday.  

That's not a nice thing to be thinking as we approach the 4th. 

Have you given any thought to the possibility that your card was skimmed much earlier than last week and that the crooks waited until people would have some time off and banks would be closed to spring this? 

It wasn't skimmed, it was an online purchase. There are 2-3 suspects, but one of them was a company that was dishonest in what they sold me & I returned the product. I had a bad feeling about them before the fraudulent transactions started & even considered going to the bank & asking for a new debit card before the thefts began. I didn't like that they had my credit card number & the security code on the back.  I can't prove it was them, but they're the main "persons of interest" in my mind.  

[jerseygirl]

iono1 can you tell us the company please so we don’t do business with them