Washington post documents unique destructive capabilities of

[Pink Cashmere]

May 13, 2024 17:24:42 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

May 12, 2024 14:12:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

as much as i would like to think that would solve the problem, i don't think it would.

have you seen Bowling for Columbine? that film asks the right question: why? gun ownership is higher in Switzerland, but the murder rate is far lower. gun laws are as lax in Canada, but they don't have the problem, either.

there is something in our psyche that causes the higher homicide and suicide rates. i have some guesses about it. does anyone else?

There has been discussion that it has a lot to do with our sense of rugged independence and "good guy with a gun" Wild Wild West fantasies.  

That and as Commissioner Gordon says in Batman Begins "Cops get vests, criminals get armor piercing bullets" and also "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

When I have easy access to a gun on me at all times it becomes quite tempting/easy to start to believe it is the solution to everything.  I can get you to stop a lot faster waving a gun in your face than I can trying to deescalate through words.  Unfortunately the dude I am waving a gun at also has a gun.  Well now he thinks he needs to shoot before I shoot him.

We've created a society where everyone thinks problems can be solved with violence.  

I was reading an article about gun crimes in other countries.  Of course they have them but they don't have nearly the amount of guns owned per individuals as we do. A lot of countries also require military training as part of being a citizen where you are going to learn how to properly handle and respect a weapon.  There are regulations regarding what you can own, how many you can own and how long before you can purchase one.

Less guns in less hands = less gun crimes.  It's just a fact.    We can't try to mental health our way out of what we have become.  The fastest solution backed up by statistics is remove the weapon itself.

Honestly, I think our problems with gun violence are due more to other, deeper problems in our society, than it is due to guns themselves. I can have easy access to hundreds of guns of any and all types, a whole war room at my disposal, but I would never go out and shoot random people. 

That is because of who I am as a person. But there is a problem in our society that so many people will use guns to terrorize, shoot, and kill random people, so I do think that the gun problems are *just* a symptom of deeper problems in our society. I say “just”, not in a way to minimize anything about the problem. 

We (collective we) simply are not the people we want everybody in the world to believe we are. The US is not some kind of utopia, it is a mess. Better than some other places to live, but still a big ass mess. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

When my toddler is having a tantrum and swinging a toy in my face I take the toy. I don't let them hit me with it.

Less guns in less hands solves the immediate crisis.

Less resources devoted to trying to stop mass shootings means more funds now available for other use.

Does that make sense? I'm not saying nobody can own any guns at all.

It's the sheer volume and easy access in America that is the problem.

Triage first. Repair later. We literally need to stop spilling blood and do so NOW.

In all the other countries you can own a gun. They happen to regulate it. The statistics show the less guns in a society and the better regulated the less mass shootings. Significantly less.

Another thing I read in relation to COVID but is relevant here too is America is far too in love with rugged independence and me first.

Societies who are more collectively driven did much better controlling covid and do better in regards to gun violence.

Till we willingly pull our heads out our butts law needs to come first. Acceptance later.

That's how it has been for every significant societal change. I probably still wouldn't be able to vote if we just sat around waiting for a collective epiphany.

Instead it was made law. People saw the world didn't end and accepted women could vote. Moving on.

[scgal]

May 13, 2024 17:36:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 13, 2024 14:29:53 GMT -5 scgal said:

I bet the victims of malpractice feels real good knowing your on committees and write guidelines. All that feel good work and still all the malpractice that goes on sounds like you don't care enough or what you are doing is too stupid to fix the problem.

I see your reading comprehension still needs improvement. I have reported bad doctors. Didn’t care to mention that. Improving care, having people follow guidelines, and improving care patterns all decrease malpractice. It is actually part of the rdcs on how to improve patient safety. But that is still apparently too difficult for you to understand. I work at a small hospital. I do not have a leadership position in any medical committee at the state or national level. I do not have any influence over any other hospital. I cannot control what other physicians do. What do you think I should do? I am working to get my house in order. Maybe you should lobby for some new laws to improve accountability since you are so worried about malpractice

Still haven’t seen an answer to what you think we should do to decrease the number of gun deaths in the US.

my comprehension is fine I really don't give a damn what you have done or are doing since the malpractice is still so high. My point is bark all you want about gun deaths but when I point out something that has creates higher deaths due to human error it's all defensive what else can I do blah blah blah. The thing is owning a firearm is a protected right. That is more important than Someone using them for malevolent purposes.

[pulmonarymd]

May 13, 2024 19:23:18 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 13, 2024 17:36:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I see your reading comprehension still needs improvement. I have reported bad doctors. Didn’t care to mention that. Improving care, having people follow guidelines, and improving care patterns all decrease malpractice. It is actually part of the rdcs on how to improve patient safety. But that is still apparently too difficult for you to understand. I work at a small hospital. I do not have a leadership position in any medical committee at the state or national level. I do not have any influence over any other hospital. I cannot control what other physicians do. What do you think I should do? I am working to get my house in order. Maybe you should lobby for some new laws to improve accountability since you are so worried about malpractice

Still haven’t seen an answer to what you think we should do to decrease the number of gun deaths in the US.

my comprehension is fine I really don't give a damn what you have done or are doing since the malpractice is still so high. My point is bark all you want about gun deaths but when I point out something that has creates higher deaths due to human error it's all defensive what else can I do blah blah blah. The thing is owning a firearm is a protected right. That is more important than Someone using them for malevolent purposes.

Your right to own a gun is more important than 20 dead first and second graders. Got it. Your selfishness is duly noted. Just own that you are a selfish person.

Harp on malpractice all you want. Nothing but a distraction and deflection. There are national patient safety goals. There are joint commission inspections that require us to implement them and other patient safety goals. We do peer review. Unfortunately, just as you point out about people who commit crimes with guns, I do not control other doctors actions, so I can only do so much. If you want better enforcement, ask your state to commit more resources to investigations and enforcement. Unlike you, I and the medic as l profession are working on ways to make it safer. You in the other hand, refuse to even consider any changes to gun laws except to make it easier to own a gun. See the difference?

[Opti]

May 13, 2024 19:23:18 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 13, 2024 17:36:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I see your reading comprehension still needs improvement. I have reported bad doctors. Didn’t care to mention that. Improving care, having people follow guidelines, and improving care patterns all decrease malpractice. It is actually part of the rdcs on how to improve patient safety. But that is still apparently too difficult for you to understand. I work at a small hospital. I do not have a leadership position in any medical committee at the state or national level. I do not have any influence over any other hospital. I cannot control what other physicians do. What do you think I should do? I am working to get my house in order. Maybe you should lobby for some new laws to improve accountability since you are so worried about malpractice

Still haven’t seen an answer to what you think we should do to decrease the number of gun deaths in the US.

my comprehension is fine I really don't give a damn what you have done or are doing since the malpractice is still so high. My point is bark all you want about gun deaths but when I point out something that has creates higher deaths due to human error it's all defensive what else can I do blah blah blah. The thing is owning a firearm is a protected right. That is more important than Someone using them for malevolent purposes.

I totally disagree. The purpose and reason for the second amendment hasn't been true for decades. So I think what follows should not be true either. I think it is also intentionally misinterpreted. The right to bear arms was not to be infringed so that a standing US army did not need to exist. It did not mean the right to have any old damn firearm that could be created.

The reason for the existence of the amendment has long gone. It needs rewriting, but it would be a tough sell as many of the people who idolize their guns also idolize the idea of America having the biggest standing army on the planet. The amendment was not intended so anyone could own whatever damn gun they wanted for sport shooting or killing school children. It was so citizens could defend the country when needed.

[tallguy]

May 13, 2024 19:23:18 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 13, 2024 17:36:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I see your reading comprehension still needs improvement. I have reported bad doctors. Didn’t care to mention that. Improving care, having people follow guidelines, and improving care patterns all decrease malpractice. It is actually part of the rdcs on how to improve patient safety. But that is still apparently too difficult for you to understand. I work at a small hospital. I do not have a leadership position in any medical committee at the state or national level. I do not have any influence over any other hospital. I cannot control what other physicians do. What do you think I should do? I am working to get my house in order. Maybe you should lobby for some new laws to improve accountability since you are so worried about malpractice

Still haven’t seen an answer to what you think we should do to decrease the number of gun deaths in the US.

my comprehension is fine I really don't give a damn what you have done or are doing since the malpractice is still so high. My point is bark all you want about gun deaths but when I point out something that has creates higher deaths due to human error it's all defensive what else can I do blah blah blah. The thing is owning a firearm is a protected right. That is more important than Someone using them for malevolent purposes.

So by your logic, since atomic or chemical weapons cause far fewer deaths than guns then atomic and chemical weapons should be not only legal but unregulated?

You do know also that for well over 200 years there was NO protected individual right to own guns.  That "right" was made up by a misguided Supreme Court in THIS century.  Until 2010 the Supreme Court had NEVER upheld an individual right to own guns.  I mean, you do know that, right?   

[tallguy]

Special interest push behind 2nd Amendment a ‘fraud,’ former chief justice said in 1991

[billisonboard]

May 13, 2024 17:45:01 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

May 13, 2024 16:54:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

google

So I don't have to post a link when I post stats anymore. Thanks! I was getting so tired of posting links to back up data I post.

Found this as the lead-in to the stat:

According to a 2016 study led by Martin Makary, a professor of surgery at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, link

Further down on the page, I found:

If you have been injured at the hands of a negligent medical provider or a loved one has passed away due to what you believe to be medical negligence, contact an experienced medical malpractice lawyer at Tennessee's Gilreath & Associates to discuss your case.

[Tennesseer]

May 13, 2024 21:06:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 13, 2024 17:45:01 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

So I don't have to post a link when I post stats anymore. Thanks! I was getting so tired of posting links to back up data I post.

Found this as the lead-in to the stat:

According to a 2016 study led by Martin Makary, a professor of surgery at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, link

Further down on the page, I found:

If you have been injured at the hands of a negligent medical provider or a loved one has passed away due to what you believe to be medical negligence, contact an experienced medical malpractice lawyer at Tennessee's Gilreath & Associates to discuss your case.

This will be the last time I will ever post a link for something I copied and pasted into a thread message. I feel liberated.

By the Numbers: The Odds of Winning a Malpractice Lawsuit
According to one large-scale study of medical malpractice claims, physicians win:

80 to 90 percent of jury trials involving weak evidence of medical negligence
70 percent of jury trials in borderline cases
50 percent of cases with strong evidence of medical negligence
Unfortunately, it can be incredibly challenging to win a medical malpractice case. Trying to handle that case alone can further interfere with the odds that you will get the compensation you deserve following medical malpractice. If you're not certain how much your claim is worth, consider looking at previous settlements and getting an idea of the average medical malpractice claim payout.

What Are the Odds of Winning a Medical Malpractice Suit?

[Pink Cashmere]

May 13, 2024 19:20:42 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

When my toddler is having a tantrum and swinging a toy in my face I take the toy. I don't let them hit me with it.

Less guns in less hands solves the immediate crisis.

Less resources devoted to trying to stop mass shootings means more funds now available for other use.

Does that make sense? I'm not saying nobody can own any guns at all.

It's the sheer volume and easy access in America that is the problem.

Triage first. Repair later. We literally need to stop spilling blood and do so NOW.

In all the other countries you can own a gun. They happen to regulate it. The statistics show the less guns in a society and the better regulated the less mass shootings. Significantly less.

Another thing I read in relation to COVID but is relevant here too is America is far too in love with rugged independence and me first.

Societies who are more collectively driven did much better controlling covid and do better in regards to gun violence.

Till we willingly pull our heads out our butts law needs to come first. Acceptance later.

That's how it has been for every significant societal change. I probably still wouldn't be able to vote if we just sat around waiting for a collective epiphany.

Instead it was made law. People saw the world didn't end and accepted women could vote. Moving on.

I was not disagreeing with you about the need for fewer guns. I believe that part too. 

[scgal]

May 13, 2024 19:59:36 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 13, 2024 19:23:18 GMT -5 scgal said:

my comprehension is fine I really don't give a damn what you have done or are doing since the malpractice is still so high. My point is bark all you want about gun deaths but when I point out something that has creates higher deaths due to human error it's all defensive what else can I do blah blah blah. The thing is owning a firearm is a protected right. That is more important than Someone using them for malevolent purposes.

Your right to own a gun is more important than 20 dead first and second graders. Got it. Your selfishness is duly noted. Just own that you are a selfish person.

Harp on malpractice all you want. Nothing but a distraction and deflection. There are national patient safety goals. There are joint commission inspections that require us to implement them and other patient safety goals. We do peer review. Unfortunately, just as you point out about people who commit crimes with guns, I do not control other doctors actions, so I can only do so much. If you want better enforcement, ask your state to commit more resources to investigations and enforcement. Unlike you, I and the medic as l profession are working on ways to make it safer. You in the other hand, refuse to even consider any changes to gun laws except to make it easier to own a gun. See the difference?

yet with all the so called safeguards you are 5x more likely to die from a medical error than a firearm. Which stands to reason the ones who make up the safeguards are the same incompetent physicians.People talk about the NRA that is nothing compared to the death squad known as the AMA. I can say with an honest heart that do care if kids die due to misuse of a firarm. I doubt physicians can can say the same since the death toll is so much higher.

[tallguy]

May 14, 2024 11:02:47 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 13, 2024 19:59:36 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Your right to own a gun is more important than 20 dead first and second graders. Got it. Your selfishness is duly noted. Just own that you are a selfish person.

Harp on malpractice all you want. Nothing but a distraction and deflection. There are national patient safety goals. There are joint commission inspections that require us to implement them and other patient safety goals. We do peer review. Unfortunately, just as you point out about people who commit crimes with guns, I do not control other doctors actions, so I can only do so much. If you want better enforcement, ask your state to commit more resources to investigations and enforcement. Unlike you, I and the medic as l profession are working on ways to make it safer. You in the other hand, refuse to even consider any changes to gun laws except to make it easier to own a gun. See the difference?

yet with all the so called safeguards you are 5x more likely to die from a medical error than a firearm. Which stands to reason the ones who make up the safeguards are the same incompetent physicians.People talk about the NRA that is nothing compared to the death squad known as the AMA. I can say with an honest heart that do care if kids die due to misuse of a firarm. I doubt physicians can can say the same since the death toll is so much higher.

Again, for your "statistic" to have any legitimacy you must calculate it PER INCIDENT.  You are many thousands (or maybe hundreds of thousands or even millions) of times more likely to die from gun use than from an encounter with the medical profession PER INCIDENT.  

[pulmonarymd]

May 14, 2024 11:02:47 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 13, 2024 19:59:36 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Your right to own a gun is more important than 20 dead first and second graders. Got it. Your selfishness is duly noted. Just own that you are a selfish person.

Harp on malpractice all you want. Nothing but a distraction and deflection. There are national patient safety goals. There are joint commission inspections that require us to implement them and other patient safety goals. We do peer review. Unfortunately, just as you point out about people who commit crimes with guns, I do not control other doctors actions, so I can only do so much. If you want better enforcement, ask your state to commit more resources to investigations and enforcement. Unlike you, I and the medic as l profession are working on ways to make it safer. You in the other hand, refuse to even consider any changes to gun laws except to make it easier to own a gun. See the difference?

yet with all the so called safeguards you are 5x more likely to die from a medical error than a firearm. Which stands to reason the ones who make up the safeguards are the same incompetent physicians.People talk about the NRA that is nothing compared to the death squad known as the AMA. I can say with an honest heart that do care if kids die due to misuse of a firarm. I doubt physicians can can say the same since the death toll is so much higher.

Deflect all you want. How many dead kids will it take before you would consider any restrictions on firearms? How many? You still refuse to answer what you would be willing to do to decrease gun deaths.

As to your other points, complete nonsense. You impugn the character of physicians, many of whom worked through the pandemic at significant personal risk. You claimed earlier you did not have a big up your ass about physicians, but it was just me. You just completely refuted your claim. As to malpractice injuries, nowhere does anyone claim that malpractice deaths are as high as you state. Reading comprehension is hard. It is a claim about medical errors. Malpractice requires negligence. Errors are not necessarily negligent. You also do not look at how care became safer prior yo the pandemic. Things worsened during and after, but you do not care as to why. National standards are a way to improve care, but that is either too hard for you to understand, do not care, or are trolling me th get a reaction. I guess I got under your skin about not caring about dead children.

As tall guy points out, how many interactions are there with the medical system, compared to how many errors. Mistakes will always happen because humans are involved. The best way to protect patients is to put systems in place to make mistakes less common. But that is too difficult for you to understand

[Pink Cashmere]

It bothers me that my last post here could sound like I was saying that the sheer numbers of guns and the ease of access to them is not a problem. So I just want to reiterate that in my first post on the thread, I said


Even though I have owned guns and actually enjoy shooting at targets in a controlled environment, I acknowledge that even though guns are inanimate objects, the way they are used so often in this country is deplorable and I would like for us to find solutions to the problem. If we as a collective can’t be trusted with them, we shouldn’t have such easy access to them.

Because I have been honest about having owned them, I want to be very clear that I am all for us figuring out solutions and preventive measures to reduce the numbers of gun crimes and deaths, even if that means I can’t just go out tomorrow and come home with a new gun in a couple of hours. I’d rather do what’s right for everybody than be able to access something that is not a basic need like food and water, and causes so much harm, even though it’s not by my hands. Sometimes bad people ruin things for good people.

[Opti]

May 14, 2024 11:02:47 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 13, 2024 19:59:36 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Your right to own a gun is more important than 20 dead first and second graders. Got it. Your selfishness is duly noted. Just own that you are a selfish person.

Harp on malpractice all you want. Nothing but a distraction and deflection. There are national patient safety goals. There are joint commission inspections that require us to implement them and other patient safety goals. We do peer review. Unfortunately, just as you point out about people who commit crimes with guns, I do not control other doctors actions, so I can only do so much. If you want better enforcement, ask your state to commit more resources to investigations and enforcement. Unlike you, I and the medic as l profession are working on ways to make it safer. You in the other hand, refuse to even consider any changes to gun laws except to make it easier to own a gun. See the difference?

yet with all the so called safeguards you are 5x more likely to die from a medical error than a firearm. Which stands to reason the ones who make up the safeguards are the same incompetent physicians.People talk about the NRA that is nothing compared to the death squad known as the AMA. I can say with an honest heart that do care if kids die due to misuse of a firarm. I doubt physicians can can say the same since the death toll is so much higher.

I don't know why you think excess gun deaths should be ignored simply because there are more or different deaths in other categories. Seems at best lazy to me. Even though kids dying in the heat in cars is a much smaller problem than gun deaths per year, car manufacturers still decided they would work on various sensors and ways to remind parents their kids are in the car. 

Is this really the kind of "exceptional America" you want to be a part of?

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

Gun-related violence occurs all around the world, including (to a lesser extent) countries in which guns are illegal. However, out of the estimated 250,227 gun-related deaths worldwide in 2019, 65.9% occurred in just six countries: Brazil, the United States, Venezuela, Mexico, India, and Colombia.

[djAdvocate]

May 13, 2024 17:30:36 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 13, 2024 16:19:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

sorry to flip this discussion on it's head, but....

Their latest estimate found that approximately 251,000 lives are claimed each year because of medical error - about 9.5 percent of all deaths annually in the United States.

might find more fertile ground on lives saved.

Medical errors are not the same thing as malpractice. The studies that quote that number use a very broad definition of medical errors. Physicians, like all people, are fallible. We make mistakes. People have complications of procedures. They have reactions to medications. Medications have side effects. People are older, sicker, more frail, and more susceptible to bad outcomes than before. And that number does not take into account what would happen to them if they did not get the treatment they received. Would they be fine, die, or have some other outcome.

Can we do better? Undoubtedly. We are at least trying.

malpractice was grouped together with error.

[djAdvocate]

May 13, 2024 17:45:01 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

May 13, 2024 16:54:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

google

So I don't have to post a link when I post stats anymore. Thanks! I was getting so tired of posting links to back up data I post.

there was no link, because i didn't get the information from a "website" i got it from a google search.  i am not sure what the policy is with regard to such things, but i would hope that if there is no link to post that i am not required to post a non-existent link.  

and yes, the same would apply to you.

if you want to know more, feed the information Google gave me back into Google.  maybe you will get something.

[djAdvocate]

here you go, Tenn- i did just what i suggested you do, and here is what i got:

A 2016 Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine study found medical errors in hospitals and other health care facilities are so commonplace that preventable deaths due to medical malpractice are the third leading cause of death in the United States. Their latest estimate found that approximately 251,000 lives are claimed each year because of medical error – about 9.5 percent of all deaths annually in the United States—higher than deaths caused by stroke, accidents or Alzheimer’s.
A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.
Advocates are fighting back, pushing for greater legislation for patient safety.

so it came from a 2016 Johns Hopkins study.
there is no link to that, either.
but i am sure you can find it.
note: they make no distinction between mistakes and malpractice in the study, as far as i can tell.

[djAdvocate]

note: this is not intended to be a critique of medical practice in the US. i was just challenging the idea that gun deaths are greater than hospital mistakes.

they aren't.

[thyme4change]

How many people die from lack of healthcare?

[Tennesseer]

May 15, 2024 6:50:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 13, 2024 17:45:01 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

So I don't have to post a link when I post stats anymore. Thanks! I was getting so tired of posting links to back up data I post.

there was no link, because i didn't get the information from a "website" i got it from a google search.  i am not sure what the policy is with regard to such things, but i would hope that if there is no link to post that i am not required to post a non-existent link.  

and yes, the same would apply to you.

if you want to know more, feed the information Google gave me back into Google.  maybe you will get something.

If you googled it, the information came from an article which has a URL address.

[djAdvocate]

May 15, 2024 8:16:52 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

How many people die from lack of healthcare?

someone here has been tracking that.  i think it is dondub.

it is a high number.  but it is not 9.5% of annual deaths.

[djAdvocate]

May 15, 2024 8:39:20 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

May 15, 2024 6:50:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

there was no link, because i didn't get the information from a "website" i got it from a google search.  i am not sure what the policy is with regard to such things, but i would hope that if there is no link to post that i am not required to post a non-existent link.  

and yes, the same would apply to you.

if you want to know more, feed the information Google gave me back into Google.  maybe you will get something.

If you googled it, the information came from an article which has a URL address.

the article was not cited in the (first) Google result.  i had to type that RESULT in Google to bring up an ARTICLE that cited the study.  i never did find the study.

i am not just being an obstinate dick, Tenn.  i seriously had no URL.  it was just a response to a question.  no citation.

but i can see you drew one like from my resident hater.

good for you, i guess.

[djAdvocate]

Tennesseer - so, just to be clear here, you are saying that if i type something as a question in google, and it responds in a way that does not link to any article or source, i am required to track that source down?

that seems burdensome to me.  but maybe that is the policy.

laura/moon- care to comment? if you don't know what i am talking about, we can set up a 1:1 discussion, so i can send you screen shots.

[Tennesseer]

May 15, 2024 10:33:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Tennesseer - so, just to be clear here, you are saying that if i type something as a question in google, and it responds in a way that does not link to any article or source, i am required to track that source down?

that seems burdensome to me.  but maybe that is the policy.

laura/moon- care to comment? if you don't know what i am talking about, we can set up a 1:1 discussion, so i can send you screen shots.

DJ-Moon won't see your question. So I will tag moon/Laura by typing @ admin (with no space between the @ and admin).

[Tennesseer]

May 15, 2024 10:33:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Tennesseer - so, just to be clear here, you are saying that if i type something as a question in google, and it responds in a way that does not link to any article or source, i am required to track that source down?

that seems burdensome to me.  but maybe that is the policy.

laura/moon- care to comment? if you don't know what i am talking about, we can set up a 1:1 discussion, so i can send you screen shots.

As to the first part of your reply, the data had to come from some internet source if it answered your question. There may be differing opinions as to the results of your question. Which would mean there are several linked sources on the internet.

It may be burdensome to you but we cannot just throw out data as proof when there is no way to verify the source of the data.

[moon/Laura]

May 15, 2024 10:33:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Tennesseer - so, just to be clear here, you are saying that if i type something as a question in google, and it responds in a way that does not link to any article or source, i am required to track that source down?

that seems burdensome to me.  but maybe that is the policy.

laura/moon- care to comment? if you don't know what i am talking about, we can set up a 1:1 discussion, so i can send you screen shots.

Well, that's somewhat of a unique situation. Perhaps in that case it could just be noted as such? I know you do usually cite your sources.

[scgal]

May 14, 2024 11:54:54 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 14, 2024 11:02:47 GMT -5 scgal said:

yet with all the so called safeguards you are 5x more likely to die from a medical error than a firearm. Which stands to reason the ones who make up the safeguards are the same incompetent physicians.People talk about the NRA that is nothing compared to the death squad known as the AMA. I can say with an honest heart that do care if kids die due to misuse of a firarm. I doubt physicians can can say the same since the death toll is so much higher.

Deflect all you want. How many dead kids will it take before you would consider any restrictions on firearms? How many? You still refuse to answer what you would be willing to do to decrease gun deaths.

As to your other points, complete nonsense. You impugn the character of physicians, many of whom worked through the pandemic at significant personal risk. You claimed earlier you did not have a big up your ass about physicians, but it was just me. You just completely refuted your claim. As to malpractice injuries, nowhere does anyone claim that malpractice deaths are as high as you state. Reading comprehension is hard. It is a claim about medical errors. Malpractice requires negligence. Errors are not necessarily negligent. You also do not look at how care became safer prior yo the pandemic. Things worsened during and after, but you do not care as to why. National standards are a way to improve care, but that is either too hard for you to understand, do not care, or are trolling me th get a reaction. I guess I got under your skin about not caring about dead children.

As tall guy points out, how many interactions are there with the medical system, compared to how many errors. Mistakes will always happen because humans are involved. The best way to protect patients is to put systems in place to make mistakes less common. But that is too difficult for you to understand

Not deflecting at all just pointing out the obvious but you don't like it because it hits your profession. You can talk about all the national safeguards. They don't mean a thing if they are not followed, the same as laws, you know killing a person is not allowed but people still break the law. 

As far as what Tenn said it doesn't matter how many interactions there are in the medical system you are more likely on any given day to walk past someone who is carrying a firearm and yet you still are here alive. 

It is what it is you will accept medical errors deaths justifying it as a mistake just like I will justify gun ownership because it is a protected right and the person is committing the crime.q1q    

Here is another staggering number there is around 1 million practicing physicians in the US. There are approx 450+ firearms. Yet you are 5x more likely to die going to get some sort of procedure done. Wow talk about a mindfuck.

[Tennesseer]

CC - moon/Laura

DJ-I decided to search Google for your statement of :  "Their latest estimate found that approximately 251,000 lives are claimed each year because of medical error - about 9.5 percent of all deaths annually in the United States."  The very first result of the search which contained your statement was the site where the statement came from.  Hardly burdensome.

MEDICAL MALPRACTICE CLAIMS

Physicians take an oath to “do no harm” and we should all be able to trust and feel safe with our doctors and hospitals. But sometimes we experience negligence when we need medical attention. If this is a reality for you, we can help. Whether you were misdiagnosed, prescribed improper medication or received improper care after surgery, we will get justice for you.

A 2016 Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine study found medical errors in hospitals and other health care facilities are so commonplace that preventable deaths due to medical malpractice are the third leading cause of death in the United States. Their latest estimate found that approximately 251,000 lives are claimed each year because of medical error – about 9.5 percent of all deaths annually in the United States—higher than deaths caused by stroke, accidents or Alzheimer’s.

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.

Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.

Advocates are fighting back, pushing for greater legislation for patient safety.

MEDICAL MALPRACTICE CLAIMS

[Pink Cashmere]

Maybe it’s just me, but I think it would be more productive to talk about things like how guns get in the hands of criminals and what we can do about that. Or how they get (or stay) in the hands of people that are known to have made serious threats to kill a specific person or really, anybody. Or people that seem to be unhinged or suffering from some kind of psychiatric problem and are not living in reality.  Why don’t we talk about things like that and what possible solutions might be, instead of getting sidetracked with arguing about something that is completely irrelevant and a bad comparison to gun deaths?