Opinion: The Coming Biden Impeachment Farce

[dondubble]

I have seen innumerable Trumpies, on YouTube interviews at his rallies, say not just 5th Avenue. But if Trump murdered someone on the steps of the frickin’ White House they would still vote for him. This is the scgal cohort.

[tallguy]

Aug 1, 2023 13:11:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:16:54 GMT -5 scgal said:

convicted yes plea bargain no

Working to follow this through. Generally a person accepts a plea bargain because they think that a jury will find them guilty if they go to trial and they will get a "bargain" of some sort in exchange for a "plea" of guilty. So if Trump pleads innocent then goes to trial and is convicted, you accept he committed a crime. But if he pleads guilty, precluding the opportunity for a jury to declare him guilty, then he is not guilty ofa crime. Is it that there are no "crimes" actually committed. People just do stuff. There are times when a guilty verdict is declared by a jury thus making a previous action a criminal offense. And if a person just says words like, "I did it"; that doesn't constitute a crime being committed. Am I close to your thinking scgal ?

While I try to admire the effort, it is unfortunately true that many things just aren't worth the attempt.  This appears to be one.

[djAdvocate]

i posit that there is a pattern of behavior on the part of Trump.
little by little we are getting to see the darker recesses of it.
it should bother everyone immensely.

[tbop77]

Aug 1, 2023 12:18:19 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:12:30 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

You don’t think extortion is a crime?  

I think it is utterly amazing how Trumpers can bend over backwards to excuse things that the common citizen could never get away with.  I guess you also believe that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and get away with it.  How heinous a crime does it have to be?  We already know you are willing to excuse crime, now how bad?  Murder?  We already know he steals.  

I guess as long as you aren’t the victim of the crime, all is good.

He didn't extort anyone. The phone call was perfectly fine for a sitting president

A sitting president should have more dignity than ask another leader to get dirt on his opponent.  Republicans should be appalled by his behavior.  To think it is "perfectly fine" shows the state of this country.  Just last week he said this:

Former President Trump called for a pause on all aid to Ukraine until several federal agencies provide “every scrap” of evidence they have on alleged “corrupt business dealings” from President Biden and his son, Hunter Biden.
thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4127166-donald-trump-urges-pause-on-ukraine-aid-amid-biden-probe/

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 1, 2023 12:18:19 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:12:30 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

You don’t think extortion is a crime?  

I think it is utterly amazing how Trumpers can bend over backwards to excuse things that the common citizen could never get away with.  I guess you also believe that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and get away with it.  How heinous a crime does it have to be?  We already know you are willing to excuse crime, now how bad?  Murder?  We already know he steals.  

I guess as long as you aren’t the victim of the crime, all is good.

He didn't extort anyone. The phone call was perfectly fine for a sitting president

I disagree.  Regardless, he tried extortion on Raffensburger as well.  I’m sure that threatening him because he couldn’t find a spare 11,000 votes was kosher too.  /s

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 1, 2023 13:16:11 GMT -5 dondubble said:

I have seen innumerable Trumpies, on YouTube interviews at his rallies, say not just 5th Avenue. But if Trump murdered someone on the steps of the frickin’ White House they would still vote for him. This is the scgal cohort.

Now this gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling.  

[billisonboard]

Aug 1, 2023 13:16:11 GMT -5 dondubble said:

I have seen innumerable Trumpies, on YouTube interviews at his rallies, say not just 5th Avenue. But if Trump murdered someone on the steps of the frickin’ White House they would still vote for him. This is the scgal cohort.

Just protecting the White House from commie invasion.

[scgal]

Aug 1, 2023 12:42:44 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:16:54 GMT -5 scgal said:

convicted yes plea bargain no

So people who agree to plea bargains aren't guilty? Why do they agree to them then? Do you give everyone who agrees to a plea bargain the benefit of the doubt, or is that reserved for only Trump?

ETA: A jury found that Trump sexually assaulted Carroll. A judge called him a rapist as a result. Is Donald Trump a rapist? A jury said so.

That was a civil case there was no real proof other than she said he said. Besides that no he is not a rapist just because a judge called him that, that is not what the jury said

[scgal]

Aug 1, 2023 13:11:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:16:54 GMT -5 scgal said:

convicted yes plea bargain no

Working to follow this through. Generally a person accepts a plea bargain because they think that a jury will find them guilty if they go to trial and they will get a "bargain" of some sort in exchange for a "plea" of guilty. So if Trump pleads innocent then goes to trial and is convicted, you accept he committed a crime. But if he pleads guilty, precluding the opportunity for a jury to declare him guilty, then he is not guilty ofa crime. Is it that there are no "crimes" actually committed. People just do stuff. There are times when a guilty verdict is declared by a jury thus making a previous action a criminal offense. And if a person just says words like, "I did it"; that doesn't constitute a crime being committed. Am I close to your thinking scgal ?

Much simpler, I would also use the word generally but think of it for the opposite. The same as paying someone off just to make it go away. That is why I say any woman to claims Trump assaulted or raped her then took a payoff is nothing more than an extortionist turned whore

[scgal]

Aug 1, 2023 12:47:09 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Aug 1, 2023 7:43:46 GMT -5 scgal said:

This is how I view Trumps impeachments.They were a farce nothing burgers he did nothing wrong in either events. The dems were so upset that he was in office and not Hillary that they just had to do something. 

Fortunately for the rest of us, your track record of being correct on issues is worse than probably anyone else currently on this board, so....

That is just opinion. 

[Tennesseer]

Aug 1, 2023 17:38:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:42:44 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

So people who agree to plea bargains aren't guilty? Why do they agree to them then? Do you give everyone who agrees to a plea bargain the benefit of the doubt, or is that reserved for only Trump?

ETA: A jury found that Trump sexually assaulted Carroll. A judge called him a rapist as a result. Is Donald Trump a rapist? A jury said so.

That was a civil case there was no real proof other than she said he said. Besides that no he is not a rapist just because a judge called him that, that is not what the jury said

Why isn’t this a criminal case?
Carroll never contacted the police at the time of the alleged incident and, according to her, told only two friends about it before going public with her claims decades later, in 2019. By that point, the criminal statute of limitations had expired long ago.

How can Carroll sue over an incident that took place more than two decades ago? What about the statute of limitations?
The statute of limitations for people to bring civil lawsuits over sexual assault in New York is generally three years. But in 2022, New York passed the Adult Survivors Act, which opened a one-year window — from Nov. 24, 2022, to Nov. 24, 2023 — for people to sue their alleged assailants even if the statute of limitations had expired. Carroll filed her lawsuit within minutes of the law taking effect on Nov. 24, 2022.

Your guide to the trial: E. Jean Carroll v. Donald Trump

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 1, 2023 17:38:01 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:42:44 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

So people who agree to plea bargains aren't guilty? Why do they agree to them then? Do you give everyone who agrees to a plea bargain the benefit of the doubt, or is that reserved for only Trump?

ETA: A jury found that Trump sexually assaulted Carroll. A judge called him a rapist as a result. Is Donald Trump a rapist? A jury said so.

That was a civil case there was no real proof other than she said he said. Besides that no he is not a rapist just because a judge called him that, that is not what the jury said

It was a jury trial. The jury decided he was liable by the preponderance of the evidence.

It is interesting that you see how what a jury says here may not be right, but you are ok in executing someone even though juries don’t always get it right. I guess it’s different when it’s a rep.

You ignored the post about plea bargains. Do they not do plea bargaining in SC? Do you have the same reservations about plea bargains in SC, or is Trump “special” so if he agrees to a plea bargain he still isn’t guilty? Which one is it ?

[scgal]

Aug 1, 2023 13:00:33 GMT -5 dondubble said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:18:19 GMT -5 scgal said:

He didn't extort anyone. The phone call was perfectly fine for a sitting president

Says you, a Trump cultist. If those ‘in the know’ had not ignored their subpoenas and testified before the impeachment committee, he would have been convicted and removed from office.

But it’s good to know you support extorting an ally over a much needed defense package so he could get political dirt on his eventual competitor.

Like so many you are wrrong. Why am I a cultist. I won't vote for him again. Or to be honest it will be very hard for me to vote for him. I think there are other candidates who can beat Biden.

[scgal]

Aug 1, 2023 16:07:32 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:18:19 GMT -5 scgal said:

He didn't extort anyone. The phone call was perfectly fine for a sitting president

I disagree.  Regardless, he tried extortion on Raffensburger as well.  I’m sure that threatening him because he couldn’t find a spare 11,000 votes was kosher too.  /s

Extortion? What did Trump threaten Raffensburger with? News to me

[tallguy]

Aug 1, 2023 17:48:58 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 12:47:09 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Fortunately for the rest of us, your track record of being correct on issues is worse than probably anyone else currently on this board, so....

That is just opinion. 

As to whether you are just about the worst here?  Yes, it is, though an educated one.  As to whether you are consistently wrong on facts?  No, that is not "opinion" at all.  That has been amply demonstrated time after time after time, ad nauseam and ad infinitum. 

[billisonboard]

Aug 1, 2023 17:47:37 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 13:11:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Working to follow this through. Generally a person accepts a plea bargain because they think that a jury will find them guilty if they go to trial and they will get a "bargain" of some sort in exchange for a "plea" of guilty. So if Trump pleads innocent then goes to trial and is convicted, you accept he committed a crime. But if he pleads guilty, precluding the opportunity for a jury to declare him guilty, then he is not guilty ofa crime. Is it that there are no "crimes" actually committed. People just do stuff. There are times when a guilty verdict is declared by a jury thus making a previous action a criminal offense. And if a person just says words like, "I did it"; that doesn't constitute a crime being committed. Am I close to your thinking scgal ?

Much simpler, I would also use the word generally but think of it for the opposite. The same as paying someone off just to make it go away. That is why I say any woman to claims Trump assaulted or raped her then took a payoff is nothing more than an extortionist turned whore

I take it that being a whore is a bad thing in your view. And if a payoff makes her a whore, paying it makes him a John, right? Is that bad thing also?

[billisonboard]

Aug 1, 2023 18:08:46 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 16:07:32 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I disagree.  Regardless, he tried extortion on Raffensburger as well.  I’m sure that threatening him because he couldn’t find a spare 11,000 votes was kosher too.  /s

Extortion? What did Trump threaten Raffensburger with? News to me

Trump also tried to intimidate Raffensperger, hinting that Raffensperger and his attorney could face a possible criminal investigation. Trump said, "You know, that's a criminal offense. And you know, you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you." link

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 1, 2023 18:08:46 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 16:07:32 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I disagree.  Regardless, he tried extortion on Raffensburger as well.  I’m sure that threatening him because he couldn’t find a spare 11,000 votes was kosher too.  /s

Extortion? What did Trump threaten Raffensburger with? News to me

Perhaps you need to listen to the tape.  Apparently you didn’t.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 1, 2023 18:05:10 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 13:00:33 GMT -5 dondubble said:

Says you, a Trump cultist. If those ‘in the know’ had not ignored their subpoenas and testified before the impeachment committee, he would have been convicted and removed from office.

But it’s good to know you support extorting an ally over a much needed defense package so he could get political dirt on his eventual competitor.

Like so many you are wrrong. Why am I a cultist. I won't vote for him again. Or to be honest it will be very hard for me to vote for him. I think there are other candidates who can beat Biden.

i think that Trump is maybe the least likely candidate to beat Biden.  unfortunately, at least TEN of them are going after his constituency, which is stupid, right?  unless Trump DIES before the election, he will keep his constituency (maybe even if he DOES die).  they are Trump to the end.  they are not going to vote for anyone who wants to share the throne with Trump.  so the ONLY shot that the GOP field has is to run against him.  and they are clearly not up to the task.  so you have to conclude that they either want him to win, or they are so bound up in their own egos that they can't resist running, despite the fact that they have no chance of winning.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 1, 2023 19:09:30 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Aug 1, 2023 18:08:46 GMT -5 scgal said:

Extortion? What did Trump threaten Raffensburger with? News to me

Perhaps you need to listen to the tape.  Apparently you didn’t.

it is claim 31f in the indictment.  and Raffensberger took it as a threat, i believe.  Trump basically said that if he didn't find him the votes, he would be subject to criminal prosecution.  since Trump weaponized the DOJ, that sounds like a threat to me, too.

of course Trump can always claim that he was giving him fair warning of what he believed to be true.  and in the absence of any previous or subsequent behavior on the part of Trump, that might work in court.  which brings us to the first impeachment.

[billisonboard]

Aug 1, 2023 17:47:37 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 1, 2023 13:11:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Working to follow this through. Generally a person accepts a plea bargain because they think that a jury will find them guilty if they go to trial and they will get a "bargain" of some sort in exchange for a "plea" of guilty. So if Trump pleads innocent then goes to trial and is convicted, you accept he committed a crime. But if he pleads guilty, precluding the opportunity for a jury to declare him guilty, then he is not guilty ofa crime. Is it that there are no "crimes" actually committed. People just do stuff. There are times when a guilty verdict is declared by a jury thus making a previous action a criminal offense. And if a person just says words like, "I did it"; that doesn't constitute a crime being committed. Am I close to your thinking scgal ?

Much simpler, I would also use the word generally but think of it for the opposite. The same as paying someone off just to make it go away. That is why I say any woman to claims Trump assaulted or raped her then took a payoff is nothing more than an extortionist turned whore

If I understand this correctly: You are saying that prosecutors plea bargain because they don't think they can get a conviction and just want the case to go away. And defendants plead guilty to crimes in a case the prosecutor thinks they will be found not guilty. I am not sure why a defendant would do that.

[happyhoix]

Aug 1, 2023 18:38:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 1, 2023 18:08:46 GMT -5 scgal said:

Extortion? What did Trump threaten Raffensburger with? News to me

Trump also tried to intimidate Raffensperger, hinting that Raffensperger and his attorney could face a possible criminal investigation. Trump said, "You know, that's a criminal offense. And you know, you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you." link

Yes, I remember this vividly, because I live in Georgia, and this asshole was trying to strong arm our SOS, a GOPer, into negating my vote for Biden. 

This was personal. I was livid. 

Very pleased when Raffensburger came up for re-election against a hand picked Trump candidate and won resoundingly. I think quite a few GA voters of both parties took offense at that audio tape.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 3, 2023 18:14:22 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 1, 2023 18:38:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Trump also tried to intimidate Raffensperger, hinting that Raffensperger and his attorney could face a possible criminal investigation. Trump said, "You know, that's a criminal offense. And you know, you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you." link

Yes, I remember this vividly, because I live in Georgia, and this asshole was trying to strong arm our SOS, a GOPer, into negating my vote for Biden. 

This was personal. I was livid. 

Very pleased when Raffensburger came up for re-election against a hand picked Trump candidate and won resoundingly. I think quite a few GA voters of both parties took offense at that audio tape.

as well they should.

for those of you puzzling over Count 4, btw, this is what Count 4 is all about.  this phone call is one of many examples that will be used to meet that charge.

[Opti]

Aug 1, 2023 19:46:35 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 1, 2023 18:05:10 GMT -5 scgal said:

Like so many you are wrrong. Why am I a cultist. I won't vote for him again. Or to be honest it will be very hard for me to vote for him. I think there are other candidates who can beat Biden.

i think that Trump is maybe the least likely candidate to beat Biden.  unfortunately, at least TEN of them are going after his constituency, which is stupid, right?  unless Trump DIES before the election, he will keep his constituency (maybe even if he DOES die).  they are Trump to the end.  they are not going to vote for anyone who wants to share the throne with Trump.  so the ONLY shot that the GOP field has is to run against him.  and they are clearly not up to the task.  so you have to conclude that they either want him to win, or they are so bound up in their own egos that they can't resist running, despite the fact that they have no chance of winning.

The only one in the field that appears to be running against Trump is Christie but apparently, he is very unpopular and has no legit chance. I still wonder what Pence is thinking, running this year.

[dondubble]

Aug 3, 2023 19:47:20 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 1, 2023 19:46:35 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think that Trump is maybe the least likely candidate to beat Biden.  unfortunately, at least TEN of them are going after his constituency, which is stupid, right?  unless Trump DIES before the election, he will keep his constituency (maybe even if he DOES die).  they are Trump to the end.  they are not going to vote for anyone who wants to share the throne with Trump.  so the ONLY shot that the GOP field has is to run against him.  and they are clearly not up to the task.  so you have to conclude that they either want him to win, or they are so bound up in their own egos that they can't resist running, despite the fact that they have no chance of winning.

The only one in the field that appears to be running against Trump is Christie but apparently, he is very unpopular and has no legit chance. I still wonder what Pence is thinking, running this year.

They are betting Trump will be out. Shuffle the deck and deal s new hand and the chips go where they may.

[scgal]

Aug 1, 2023 18:30:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Aug 1, 2023 17:47:37 GMT -5 scgal said:

Much simpler, I would also use the word generally but think of it for the opposite. The same as paying someone off just to make it go away. That is why I say any woman to claims Trump assaulted or raped her then took a payoff is nothing more than an extortionist turned whore

I take it that being a whore is a bad thing in your view. And if a payoff makes her a whore, paying it makes him a John, right? Is that bad thing also?

No not a bad thing just calling it like it is. Yes he would be the John