Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 20, 2023 16:13:02 GMT -5
I was thinking this morning for a very brief moment of leaving the USA for a couple of years because it is too screwed up right now. But then reality set in and I am better off standing up for what is right here than abandoning the country.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 20, 2023 18:21:51 GMT -5
So, if Trump is actually arrested and there is no protest tomorrow, or even in the next few weeks, does that mean Trump is losing steam, or do we think something more sinister is being planned?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 20, 2023 18:28:47 GMT -5
It's the Electoral College. It was set up with good intentions, but has bitten us in the a$$ more than once. In a perfect world, it would ensure that no states get overlooked in a presidential election. Unfortunately, it's a problem, and the "will of the people" is sometimes not accomplished. (It wasn't only Hillary Clinton who was cheated out of a win by that system.) It wasn't set up with good intentions. It was the bribe to get the rich white guys to sign on to be part of the United States. It was the promise that they wouldn't lose their power. I totally agree with you. I'm also unwilling to elucidate. Lotsa ugly shows up when you examine the bargain that was struck.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2023 18:39:11 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 20, 2023 18:53:40 GMT -5
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 20, 2023 18:58:44 GMT -5
You just cannot make this shit up. trump world. Obama was two years old when JFK was assassinated. Susan Rice wasn't born yet. And Eric Holder was twelve. Right-wing host calls for military to execute Obama if Trump is indicted“Military, join us and put all of them up against a concrete wall,” said podcast host Pete Santilli Far-right broadcaster Pete Santilli called on members of the military to execute former President Barack Obama, former Attorney General Eric Holder, and former National Security Advisor Susan Rice if former President Donald Trump is arrested. Trump in a lengthy rant on Truth Social over the weekend claimed he would be arrested in connection to the Manhattan district attorney's investigation into hush-money payments made to adult film star Stormy Daniels in the final stretch of the 2016 presidential campaign. Santilli responded on his show by calling for Trump's supporters in the military to rise up and round up Obama and his former administration officials and shoot them against a "concrete wall." "Get the military, whatever few are left that are gonna side with the people. You military personnel and you people with guns and badges and law enforcement will succumb to the will of the people," Santilli said in a clip flagged by Right Wing Watch. "And ultimately, we demand, we absolutely demand that the criminals, the criminals in this country, if you want them held accountable, the criminals are Barack Obama, Eric Holder, Susan Rice," he continued. "This entire criminal cabal that came about as a result of the murder of John F. Kennedy, the people that perpetrated the murder of John F. Kennedy, rise up to that." "Military, join us and put all of them up against a concrete wall...and do what we must do to save not just our country, the entire world," he pleaded. Right-wing host calls for military to execute Obama if Trump is indictedWait so Obama and all these other democrats conspired to assassinate a very popular Democratic president? Someone needs to set up their white board and sticky notes and colored dry erase markers and make some kind of Gantt chart or some such to explain this to me.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 20, 2023 19:34:24 GMT -5
What's he going to do? Pay back all the money he owes? He doesn't have money to take a run at a bank with.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 20, 2023 20:03:38 GMT -5
You just cannot make this shit up. trump world. Obama was two years old when JFK was assassinated. Susan Rice wasn't born yet. And Eric Holder was twelve. Right-wing host calls for military to execute Obama if Trump is indicted“Military, join us and put all of them up against a concrete wall,” said podcast host Pete Santilli Far-right broadcaster Pete Santilli called on members of the military to execute former President Barack Obama, former Attorney General Eric Holder, and former National Security Advisor Susan Rice if former President Donald Trump is arrested. Trump in a lengthy rant on Truth Social over the weekend claimed he would be arrested in connection to the Manhattan district attorney's investigation into hush-money payments made to adult film star Stormy Daniels in the final stretch of the 2016 presidential campaign. Santilli responded on his show by calling for Trump's supporters in the military to rise up and round up Obama and his former administration officials and shoot them against a "concrete wall." "Get the military, whatever few are left that are gonna side with the people. You military personnel and you people with guns and badges and law enforcement will succumb to the will of the people," Santilli said in a clip flagged by Right Wing Watch. "And ultimately, we demand, we absolutely demand that the criminals, the criminals in this country, if you want them held accountable, the criminals are Barack Obama, Eric Holder, Susan Rice," he continued. "This entire criminal cabal that came about as a result of the murder of John F. Kennedy, the people that perpetrated the murder of John F. Kennedy, rise up to that." "Military, join us and put all of them up against a concrete wall...and do what we must do to save not just our country, the entire world," he pleaded. Right-wing host calls for military to execute Obama if Trump is indictedWait so Obama and all these other democrats conspired to assassinate a very popular Democratic president? Someone needs to set up their white board and sticky notes and colored dry erase markers and make some kind of Gantt chart or some such to explain this to me. What can I tell ya'. He's a right-wing extremist. Not a lot of smarts in the head.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 20, 2023 20:29:56 GMT -5
What's he going to do? Pay back all the money he owes? He doesn't have money to take a run at a bank with. In China he does.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 20, 2023 21:37:53 GMT -5
That kind of goes along with the Republican plan to Bankrupt America. I'm guessing Republicans expect to be able rise from the ashes and build a new America.... Isn't this the week that the Republicans discuss the budget and how they want to cut all sorts of government spending? I'm guessing the Republicans are HAPPY trump is stepping into the spotlight to distract from what Republicans want to do the budget. Most of which will hit the Republican States the hardest...
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 21, 2023 7:27:41 GMT -5
So, if Trump is actually arrested and there is no protest tomorrow, or even in the next few weeks, does that mean Trump is losing steam, or do we think something more sinister is being planned? Definitely something more nefarious is being planned, but he’s left with the dregs from the clown car, so how well organized or grounded in reality will the plan be? This is the guy who promised flying cars for everyone if he gets re-elected. And not even prime toady Kushner to organize it for him. And MAGA fighters who are mostly older and wheezy.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Mar 21, 2023 9:30:47 GMT -5
I doubt people will be rushing to protest after all the news media coverage of the Jan 06 people that went to jail.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 21, 2023 10:53:15 GMT -5
So, if Trump is actually arrested and there is no protest tomorrow, or even in the next few weeks, does that mean Trump is losing steam, or do we think something more sinister is being planned? I cannot rule out anything more sinister. Nothing is beneath him, or his toadies.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 21, 2023 11:49:30 GMT -5
Unless a bunch of people travel in from out of state, I really can't see there being some big protest in NYC.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 21, 2023 13:12:59 GMT -5
What's to stop trumpers from actually protesting (not rioting, not destroying property) within the comfy confines of their Red City, County or State? Shouldn't they let their voices be heard?
Americans across America protested when trump was elected in 2016.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 21, 2023 17:33:22 GMT -5
Did it happen? Please tell me it happened. Please tell me he's behind bars! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeasssssse....🫣
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 21, 2023 17:46:11 GMT -5
Did it happen? Please tell me it happened. Please tell me he's behind bars! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeasssssse....🫣 Not yet. Meanwhile we might be hearing from Special Counsel Jack Smith looking into the confidential documents hidden from authorities in mar-a-lago real soon.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 21, 2023 17:54:09 GMT -5
Sources: Special counsel claims Trump deliberately misled his attorneys about classified documents, judge wroteThe judge said there could be indications of criminal violations, per sources. Prosecutors in the special counsel's office have presented compelling preliminary evidence that former President Donald Trump knowingly and deliberately misled his own attorneys about his retention of classified materials after leaving office, a former top federal judge wrote Friday in a sealed filing, according to sources who described its contents to ABC News. U.S. Judge Beryl Howell, who on Friday stepped down as the D.C. district court's chief judge, wrote last week that prosecutors in special counsel Jack Smith's office had made a "prima facie showing that the former president had committed criminal violations," according to the sources, and that attorney-client privileges invoked by two of his lawyers could therefore be pierced. Trump has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing in his handling of classified documents. In her sealed filing, Howell ordered that Evan Corcoran, an attorney for Trump, should comply with a grand jury subpoena for testimony on six separate lines of inquiry over which he had previously asserted attorney-client privilege. Sources added that Howell also ordered Corcoran to hand over a number of records tied to what Howell described as Trump's alleged "criminal scheme," echoing prosecutors. Those records include handwritten notes, invoices, and transcriptions of personal audio recordings. In reaching the so-called prima facie standard to pierce Corcoran's privilege, Howell agreed prosecutors made a sufficient showing that on its face would appear to show Trump committed crimes. The judge made it clear that prosecutors would still need to meet a higher standard of evidence in order to seek charges against Trump, and more still to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. "It is a lower hurdle, but it is an indication that the government had presented some evidence and allegation that they had evidence that met the elements of a crime," Brandon Van Grack, a former top national security official in the Justice Department who is now in private practice, told ABC News. Howell found that prosecutors showed "sufficient" evidence that Trump "intentionally concealed" the existence of additional classified documents from Corcoran, sources said, putting Corcoran in an unwitting position to deceive the government. It's unclear what evidence Howell may have reviewed under seal from both DOJ and Trump's attorneys to help her arrive at her decision. In response to ABC News, a Trump campaign spokesperson said, in part, "Shame on Fake News ABC for broadcasting ILLEGALLY LEAKED false allegations from a Never Trump, now former chief judge, against the Trump legal team." "The real story here, that Fake News ABC SHOULD be reporting on, is that prosecutors only attack lawyers when they have no case whatsoever," the spokesperson said. A spokesperson for the special counsel's office declined to comment to ABC News. The developments described by sources illustrate another dimension of the former president's ongoing legal vulnerabilities. As Smith's classified documents probe marches forward, prosecutors in New York are mulling a separate indictment against Trump over hush payments he allegedly paid to an adult film star ahead of the 2016 presidential election. Trump also faces scrutiny in Georgia over his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election in the state, and Smith is continuing his own probe into Trump's attempts to interfere in the 2020 election. Central to Smith's efforts in the classified documents probe is determining whether lawyers who represented the former president falsely certified in response to a grand jury subpoena that Trump had returned all classified records to the government or whether Trump himself sought to conceal records that he might have unlawfully retained. Federal prosecutors have claimed that lawyers for Trump certified in June 2022 that a "diligent search" of Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate turned up just 38 classified documents stored in a secured storage room. But two months later, when FBI agents raided the premises, they found more than 100 additional documents marked classified -- some of which were located outside of the storage room, including in Trump's office desk, prosecutors said. In her order last Friday, Howell was unsparing in her criticism of Trump's actions since early last year in response to the government's attempts to retrieve all classified documents taken from the White House. At one point she described Trump's interactions with officials from the National Archives as a "dress rehearsal," sources said, for his later efforts at misdirection in response to the grand jury subpoena. As ABC News has previously reported, investigators sought to compel the testimony of Corcoran and another Trump attorney, Jennifer Little, as part of their probe, citing the crime-fraud exception, which allows for attorney-client privilege to be pierced in cases where it is suspected that legal services were rendered in the commission of a crime. Sources told ABC News that Howell ordered Little's testimony as well, with the exception of one of the topics for which she sought to assert attorney-client privilege. Sources said prosecutors have sought to question Corcoran on how he aided another Trump attorney, Christina Bobb, in drafting the June 2022 statement to the Justice Department, which Bobb ultimately signed. Attorneys for Trump were expected to appeal Howell's Friday ruling, sources said. Sources: Special counsel claims Trump deliberately misled his attorneys about classified documents, judge wrote
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 21, 2023 17:56:32 GMT -5
well, that gets his attorneys off the hook. but not Trump.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 21, 2023 19:09:44 GMT -5
well, that gets his attorneys off the hook. but not Trump. Not a good look for trump.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 21, 2023 19:14:34 GMT -5
'He Betrayed Us': Why Trump's Call To Protest Is FloppingDonald Trump’s calls for supporters to protest his possible indictment by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg led officials to tighten security in New York and Washington and raised fears of potential violence. But Trump’s exhortations were largely met with reluctance from both prominent supporters and the far-right online acolytes who responded to his rallying cry on Jan. 6, 2021. A demonstration on Monday organized by the New York Young Republican Club outside the Manhattan court where Trump would be arraigned if indicted drew barely 50 people. Only a handful of supporters showed up outside his Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida, according to local reports. Distrustful that protests might be “traps” set by federal law enforcement and without a fixed date or event to rally around, the vast majority of pro-Trump online groups seemed to waver between apathy and confusion, showing very little appetite for organized action. “He’s not infallible and protest is very vague,” one person wrote in a popular MAGA Telegram group. “And what exactly does “Protest, Protest!!!” mean?” another person asked in a different group. “I’m not trying to be a jerk but you’d think he could give slightly more explicit instructions if he really wanted the tens of millions of people who support him to do something effective.” While there were the usual mentions of “civil war” and apocalyptic language about using violence to “take the country back” that have become commonplace in far-right channels, polls in these groups asking if followers would protest for Trump overwhelmingly found their members opposed. While far-right groups see Trump’s possible arrest as a politicized prosecution, they mostly advised each other to stay home. “I think “protest” is bad advice from Trump,” read one post on a pro-Trump forum. “Unless you’re willing to actually and truly do an insurrection, taking all oppressors prisoner (or worse), there is no point to “protest” here.” None of the prominent Trump supporters who played key roles in organizing rallies and protests in the past stepped up either, with many of them publicly declaring they were staying out of it. “I’m retired,” Ali Alexander, a right-wing activist and key organizer of the 2020 “Stop the Steal” rallies that led to Jan. 6, wrote in a post on the Telegram messaging app. Alexander said he had spoken to Alex Jones, a prominent conspiracy theorist involved in the Jan. 6 rallies. “He’s not protesting either. We’ve both got enough going on fighting the government,” he wrote. “No billionaire is covering our bills.” The muted response highlights the lack of enthusiasm for and widespread distrust of mass protests after the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, which led to more than 1,000 prosecutions. A review of more than two dozen popular pro-Trump Telegram channels, online forums, and social media groups also suggests that many supporters feel betrayed by what they see as the former President’s abandonment of those who rallied for him on Jan. 6, 2021. “Why would I protest for a man that left the [Jan. 6 protesters] high and dry?” one user posted in a pro-Trump Telegram group. “Trump did nothing to help them after they stuck [their] neck out for him.” “Has he called for protests about these poor guys? No. But he’s calling for us to protest about his arrest,” another person wrote. “It doesn’t sit right with me.” Another user agreed: “He’s right. Trump betrayed the J6 patriots. How can anybody still support [him]?” Many of the narratives in right-wing circles online have centered on warnings that the federal government is trying to stoke violent protests by Trump supporters so they can arrest them, according to an analysis shared with TIME by Logically, a U.K.-based tech firm that tracks online misinformation. Far-right groups have warned followers that any protests could be a “setup” or “Deep State traps” to draw our Trump supporters. When the British far-right YouTuber Paul Joseph Watson asked his more than 218,000 followers on Truth Social “Is the potential protest against Trump being arrested a J6-style trap?” more than 85% responded “Yes.” On online messaging groups and forums, Trump supporters discussed alternative ways to protest, with many urging people to withdraw their money from banks, organize national work strikes, set up prayer groups or fly American flags upside down. “Don’t expose your back, because Trump does not have yours,” one user on a pro-Trump social media group wrote. “And he never will.” Still, intelligence officials have tracked an uptick in violent rhetoric in recent days, with most threats targeting law enforcement, judges and government officials in New York, according to a CBS report. Extremism analysts and former law enforcement officials have cautioned that the risk of violence is more likely to come from an individual who decides to act, as happened last year when an armed man attacked the FBI’s office in Cincinnati after the agents raided Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence. 'He Betrayed Us': Why Trump's Call To Protest Is Flopping
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 21, 2023 19:31:00 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 21, 2023 21:05:57 GMT -5
'He Betrayed Us': Why Trump's Call To Protest Is FloppingDonald Trump’s calls for supporters to protest his possible indictment by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg led officials to tighten security in New York and Washington and raised fears of potential violence. But Trump’s exhortations were largely met with reluctance from both prominent supporters and the far-right online acolytes who responded to his rallying cry on Jan. 6, 2021. A demonstration on Monday organized by the New York Young Republican Club outside the Manhattan court where Trump would be arraigned if indicted drew barely 50 people. Only a handful of supporters showed up outside his Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida, according to local reports. Distrustful that protests might be “traps” set by federal law enforcement and without a fixed date or event to rally around, the vast majority of pro-Trump online groups seemed to waver between apathy and confusion, showing very little appetite for organized action. “He’s not infallible and protest is very vague,” one person wrote in a popular MAGA Telegram group. “And what exactly does “Protest, Protest!!!” mean?” another person asked in a different group. “I’m not trying to be a jerk but you’d think he could give slightly more explicit instructions if he really wanted the tens of millions of people who support him to do something effective.” While there were the usual mentions of “civil war” and apocalyptic language about using violence to “take the country back” that have become commonplace in far-right channels, polls in these groups asking if followers would protest for Trump overwhelmingly found their members opposed. While far-right groups see Trump’s possible arrest as a politicized prosecution, they mostly advised each other to stay home. “I think “protest” is bad advice from Trump,” read one post on a pro-Trump forum. “Unless you’re willing to actually and truly do an insurrection, taking all oppressors prisoner (or worse), there is no point to “protest” here.” None of the prominent Trump supporters who played key roles in organizing rallies and protests in the past stepped up either, with many of them publicly declaring they were staying out of it. “I’m retired,” Ali Alexander, a right-wing activist and key organizer of the 2020 “Stop the Steal” rallies that led to Jan. 6, wrote in a post on the Telegram messaging app. Alexander said he had spoken to Alex Jones, a prominent conspiracy theorist involved in the Jan. 6 rallies. “He’s not protesting either. We’ve both got enough going on fighting the government,” he wrote. “No billionaire is covering our bills.” The muted response highlights the lack of enthusiasm for and widespread distrust of mass protests after the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, which led to more than 1,000 prosecutions. A review of more than two dozen popular pro-Trump Telegram channels, online forums, and social media groups also suggests that many supporters feel betrayed by what they see as the former President’s abandonment of those who rallied for him on Jan. 6, 2021. “Why would I protest for a man that left the [Jan. 6 protesters] high and dry?” one user posted in a pro-Trump Telegram group. “Trump did nothing to help them after they stuck [their] neck out for him.” “Has he called for protests about these poor guys? No. But he’s calling for us to protest about his arrest,” another person wrote. “It doesn’t sit right with me.” Another user agreed: “He’s right. Trump betrayed the J6 patriots. How can anybody still support [him]?” Many of the narratives in right-wing circles online have centered on warnings that the federal government is trying to stoke violent protests by Trump supporters so they can arrest them, according to an analysis shared with TIME by Logically, a U.K.-based tech firm that tracks online misinformation. Far-right groups have warned followers that any protests could be a “setup” or “Deep State traps” to draw our Trump supporters. When the British far-right YouTuber Paul Joseph Watson asked his more than 218,000 followers on Truth Social “Is the potential protest against Trump being arrested a J6-style trap?” more than 85% responded “Yes.” On online messaging groups and forums, Trump supporters discussed alternative ways to protest, with many urging people to withdraw their money from banks, organize national work strikes, set up prayer groups or fly American flags upside down. “Don’t expose your back, because Trump does not have yours,” one user on a pro-Trump social media group wrote. “And he never will.”Still, intelligence officials have tracked an uptick in violent rhetoric in recent days, with most threats targeting law enforcement, judges and government officials in New York, according to a CBS report. Extremism analysts and former law enforcement officials have cautioned that the risk of violence is more likely to come from an individual who decides to act, as happened last year when an armed man attacked the FBI’s office in Cincinnati after the agents raided Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence. 'He Betrayed Us': Why Trump's Call To Protest Is Flopping there is a truly lucid moment. hopefully it sticks.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 21, 2023 23:35:56 GMT -5
Did it happen? Please tell me it happened. Please tell me he's behind bars! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeasssssse....🫣 I turned on the TV and the guy on the news said “there is no grand jury today, so there will not be an arrest.” I then turned off the TV even though that guy was explaining something. I got the info I needed.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 22, 2023 8:50:24 GMT -5
Did it happen? Please tell me it happened. Please tell me he's behind bars! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeasssssse....🫣 He's not going to be held on bail while the case is pending.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 22, 2023 8:58:30 GMT -5
Here's a brief primer on NY criminal procedure.
The Grand Jury meets and votes an indictment. Can be open or closed based on whether there is a previous arrest or a direct presentment. In this case it would be closed. The indictment is filed with the clerk. It is assigned to a judge. The judge opens the indictment and issues a warrant for the person. If the person has an attorney and is offered the opportunity to testify as Trump was, arrangements are made to have the person report to court to be processed and be arraigned. The warrant will not be executed until trump shows up, or he fails to show up.
He's probably not going to be cuffed. if he is, it will be minor, like the walk from the processing room to the court room.
He will be arraigned (charges read to him), a date for discovery completion and motions will be set, and he will be released on his own recognizance. Most non violent crimes are not bailable offenses in New York, but even if they are, there is no reason to believe he will not appear in court. The court must impose "the least restrictive means to insure the defendant's return to court. He will probably have to turn in his passport, though.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 22, 2023 9:56:04 GMT -5
Here's a brief primer on NY criminal procedure. The Grand Jury meets and votes an indictment. Can be open or closed based on whether there is a previous arrest or a direct presentment. In this case it would be closed. The indictment is filed with the clerk. It is assigned to a judge. The judge opens the indictment and issues a warrant for the person. If the person has an attorney and is offered the opportunity to testify as Trump was, arrangements are made to have the person report to court to be processed and be arraigned. The warrant will not be executed until trump shows up, or he fails to show up. He's probably not going to be cuffed. if he is, it will be minor, like the walk from the processing room to the court room. He will be arraigned (charges read to him), a date for discovery completion and motions will be set, and he will be released on his own recognizance. Most non violent crimes are not bailable offenses in New York, but even if they are, there is no reason to believe he will not appear in court. The court must impose "the least restrictive means to insure the defendant's return to court. He will probably have to turn in his passport, though. And take away the keys to trump Force One.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 22, 2023 14:43:10 GMT -5
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 22, 2023 14:58:02 GMT -5
Here's a brief primer on NY criminal procedure. The Grand Jury meets and votes an indictment. Can be open or closed based on whether there is a previous arrest or a direct presentment. In this case it would be closed. The indictment is filed with the clerk. It is assigned to a judge. The judge opens the indictment and issues a warrant for the person. If the person has an attorney and is offered the opportunity to testify as Trump was, arrangements are made to have the person report to court to be processed and be arraigned. The warrant will not be executed until trump shows up, or he fails to show up. He's probably not going to be cuffed. if he is, it will be minor, like the walk from the processing room to the court room. He will be arraigned (charges read to him), a date for discovery completion and motions will be set, and he will be released on his own recognizance. Most non violent crimes are not bailable offenses in New York, but even if they are, there is no reason to believe he will not appear in court. The court must impose "the least restrictive means to insure the defendant's return to court. He will probably have to turn in his passport, though. So has any of that happened?
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 22, 2023 17:51:23 GMT -5
I don't know much about prisons, when someone is locked up do they get a haircut? I would love to see Trump without hair spray but even better shaved to a crew cut.
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