tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 20, 2023 17:20:23 GMT -5
How is labelling people who don't agree "Nazis"... going to help?There may be some dodgy characters being emboldened on the far right....... but the vast majority of people in the Southern States are not extremists.... they are just people. If you want greater gun controls... then do it. Generally, the only people being labelled "Nazis" are those who embody beliefs and utilize tactics that recall...The Nazis. Unfortunately, that now includes many conservatives and much of the current incarnation of the Republican Party. The ones who are not Nazi-like are now derided as "RINO"s.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 20, 2023 17:20:49 GMT -5
I won't. Does that make me a Nazi because its not on the list of things I'm supposed to agree with?
No, it makes me a Liberal who supports the rights of women to have safe spaces.... above the rights of others.
A different opinion is not necessarily wrong. Its just part of the debate.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 20, 2023 17:28:30 GMT -5
I understand "Wokeism" .... probably more than most people here
and am pointing out some of the flaws in the ideology.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 20, 2023 17:33:32 GMT -5
i am still trying to identify in what way "wokeism" oppresses people.
i will wait for the answer. as long as it takes. i am a patient man.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 20, 2023 17:35:41 GMT -5
My Country/family suffered so much under the Nazis.
Using it as a free pejorative to describe someone who doesn't agree with you, is insulting.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 20, 2023 17:36:43 GMT -5
It is only the conservative "definition" of wokeism that oppresses people. The real idea does nothing of the sort.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 20, 2023 17:41:10 GMT -5
The real idea.... is now sadly lost.
going to bed, sorry
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 20, 2023 17:41:26 GMT -5
oh, right. conservopedia. i keep forgetting.
wokeism means forcing people at gunpoint to use gender pronouns. stuff like that.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 20, 2023 17:53:46 GMT -5
My Country/family suffered so much under the Nazis. Using it as a free pejorative to describe someone who doesn't agree with you, is insulting. I don't use it as a "free pejorative." It is used as a descriptor for those who utilize Nazi-like tactics. I saw recently a list of 14 points or attributes of Fascism. I went through it, line by line. Today's GOP I judged about 50/50 on two of those points. They were dead-on the other 12. The Republican Party is no longer worthy of respect for...anything. There are few left for whom courage, honor, and integrity are even values, much less something to be lived. There is no interest in governing in any real sense. It is all about power and control, and they will destroy virtually anything in order to dictate and impose their own desires. Anyone opposed is merely one more thing to be crushed in service to that end. That is not what American democracy is supposed to be.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 20, 2023 18:06:25 GMT -5
I see woke as being divisive and ultra left wing.Whereas anti-woke is also divisive and very right wing You are probably better somewhere in the middle...... they are both two heads of the same dual-headed snake. Both attract loonies and extremists Not woke.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 20, 2023 18:17:23 GMT -5
I haven’t heard a liberal use the word woke in 8 or 10 years. They starting naming it what they want - “Rights”.
The only people using woke are the people who believe some animals are more equal than others.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 20, 2023 18:21:24 GMT -5
oh, right. conservopedia. i keep forgetting.wokeism means forcing people at gunpoint to use gender pronouns. stuff like that. You really should try to do better. How do you expect to have a true dialogue with someone if you do not agree to use all of their definitions?
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Mar 20, 2023 18:28:03 GMT -5
When you fall for a right wing propaganda campaign, and don't even see it. It's both sad and frightening.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 20, 2023 18:46:17 GMT -5
My Country/family suffered so much under the Nazis. Using it as a free pejorative to describe someone who doesn't agree with you, is insulting. As I just said, I am from the country to the east of you just across the puddle. And we were not just bombed out of house of home but an occupied country. So there was plenty of suffering. Also, death is measured one person at a time and I really don't think it is easier to lose a child on the battle field than during a bombing. The extermination/concentration camps were a different animal all together but that kind of suffering Great Britain was spared. Like you I am too young to have first hand experience with WWII (you are still in the work force so it is safe to assume that you are younger than I am), however that does not mean we cannot study the rise and existence of Nazism and all it did to the world at the time. Now if you actually look carefully you will realize why fascism/Nazism is brought Y so often. It is NOT because people disagree but because of the ideas that are espoused by that which currently passes for the Repubs. There are exceptions like Liz Cheney who I strongly disagree with on policies. But she is a principled person who has not drunk the current Repub Koolaid - not a Nazi I am sure there are many more but they have become the silent part of the party. Vitriol, hate, and open support of discrimination have become the vote getters and thus the default approach for this party. Lest we forget: Hitler lost the presidential election in 1932. His party only became the second largest in Germany because it significantly toned down its hateful rethoric after it got clobbered in the previous election. Most Germans considered themselves to civilized for the hate that was spouted at the time. So the existence was swept under the carpet and look what happened after Hindenberg's death in 1934: 5 years was all it took to take the world to WWII. it's Yet it's so wrong to be "woke" today as it is divisive, it disturbs the peace - things are just fine. No, they are not. Never again (another ironic expression) has to br applied to the circumstances that can bring a democratic society to the brink of collapse not just to wars and other atrocities imposed on weaker groups. Anyone who thinks these things cannot happen in this country in this time is just deluding themselves. It can and it will if we are not careful. Ok, time to get off the soapbox.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 20, 2023 18:50:30 GMT -5
I understand "Wokeism" .... probably more than most people here and am pointing out some of the flaws in the ideology. Not the point. You made assertions about the IS without a clear knowledge of is. How would you like me pointing out the the UK is fracturing-Brexit, the Scottish independence parties, Ireland/Northern Ireland. I bet you would tell we lol me I was wrong. Blaming everything on wokeism is a tired trope. You are arguing a straw man
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 20, 2023 18:55:20 GMT -5
I understand "Wokeism" .... probably more than most people here
and am pointing out some of the flaws in the ideology. No, you do not. Wokeism is less connected to woke than imitation crab is to real crab.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Mar 20, 2023 22:59:58 GMT -5
I understand "Wokeism" .... probably more than most people here and am pointing out some of the flaws in the ideology. Sorry Spellbound454, but I think this really is a case of the meaning is different in UK vs US. It literally has a different connotation to you than it does to many of us. Sort of like "Benedict Arnold" in the US = traitor, but in UK = patriot. From wikipedia: But the main entry says this: Woke is used as a pejorative by *some* US conservatives, but they are nowhere near 73% of the general population.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 21, 2023 1:20:00 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 21, 2023 1:36:30 GMT -5
Yes, its their current catch all term for things they don't like.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 21, 2023 12:48:58 GMT -5
I see woke as being divisive and ultra left wing.Whereas anti-woke is also divisive and very right wing You are probably better somewhere in the middle...... they are both two heads of the same dual-headed snake. Both attract loonies and extremists Not woke. neither is racism. so, does the anti-woke community think racism is acceptable?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 21, 2023 12:51:12 GMT -5
My Country/family suffered so much under the Nazis. Using it as a free pejorative to describe someone who doesn't agree with you, is insulting. As I just said, I am from the country to the east of you just across the puddle. And we were not just bombed out of house of home but an occupied country. So there was plenty of suffering. Also, death is measured one person at a time and I really don't think it is easier to lose a child on the battle field than during a bombing. The extermination/concentration camps were a different animal all together but that kind of suffering Great Britain was spared. Like you I am too young to have first hand experience with WWII (you are still in the work force so it is safe to assume that you are younger than I am), however that does not mean we cannot study the rise and existence of Nazism and all it did to the world at the time. Now if you actually look carefully you will realize why fascism/Nazism is brought Y so often. It is NOT because people disagree but because of the ideas that are espoused by that which currently passes for the Repubs. There are exceptions like Liz Cheney who I strongly disagree with on policies. But she is a principled person who has not drunk the current Repub Koolaid - not a Nazi I am sure there are many more but they have become the silent part of the party. Vitriol, hate, and open support of discrimination have become the vote getters and thus the default approach for this party. Lest we forget: Hitler lost the presidential election in 1932. His party only became the second largest in Germany because it significantly toned down its hateful rethoric after it got clobbered in the previous election. Most Germans considered themselves to civilized for the hate that was spouted at the time. So the existence was swept under the carpet and look what happened after Hindenberg's death in 1934: 5 years was all it took to take the world to WWII. it's Yet it's so wrong to be "woke" today as it is divisive, it disturbs the peace - things are just fine. No, they are not. Never again (another ironic expression) has to br applied to the circumstances that can bring a democratic society to the brink of collapse not just to wars and other atrocities imposed on weaker groups. Anyone who thinks these things cannot happen in this country in this time is just deluding themselves. It can and it will if we are not careful. Ok, time to get off the soapbox. this really hits the nail on the head. straight white men and women don't want the DISCOMFORT that comes with accepting others ON THEIR TERMS. what they conveniently forget is that everyone else has accepted them ON THEIR TERMS for as long as there have been high civilizations. enough is enough.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 21, 2023 12:53:24 GMT -5
as i said before, woke is the new "catch all" for conservatives into which to foist everything wrong with the world. they can't even define it. and when they do, it is not even remotely close to the actual definition. 60 years ago, it was "liberal". now it is "woke". the right can't survive without bogeymen.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 21, 2023 20:51:41 GMT -5
as i said before, woke is the new "catch all" for conservatives into which to foist everything wrong with the world. they can't even define it. and when they do, it is not even remotely close to the actual definition. 60 years ago, it was "liberal". now it is "woke". the right can't survive without bogeymen. And some of the crazy ones in the US insist woman has a simple definition and trash anyone who disagrees, but that author wrote a book on it and still can't define it. On the woman/man thing they disregard the obvious even before one considers trans people. Not everyone is XX or XY. XXX exists, XXY, XXXY and all sorts of permutations and then of course those born like hermaphrodites where the doctors and parents vote on what the child will become. I want to invent a anti stupid wand and we can waive at these special folk and they will either be temporarily struck dumb on the subject or find their intelligence increased enough they can understand the dictionary definition and its history better than they did before.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 23, 2023 9:53:20 GMT -5
I got flamed here once pointing out there are people who have XXY chromosomes. No that poster KNOWS all females are solely XX. Uhh . .unless you make someone take a genetic test you have no way of knowing because of the tendency for the Y chromosome to be silent which means secondary male characteristics do not develop. For all intents and purposes you are female. But according to that poster's logic that person needs to use the men's restroom. I was also blown away by the claim they'd "know" based on what direction a person's feet are pointing in the stall. First WTF are you looking at people's feet? Second what if that person has a colostomy bag or a catheter they need to empty? I also got no answer when I pointed out that a lesbian can just as likely be oogling you in the locker room so what makes that any different from a trans woman? Why can't we just let people change and pee in peace?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Mar 23, 2023 10:20:33 GMT -5
People should google testicular feminization. They have XY chromosomes, but are resistant to the effects of testosterone, show look female. What should we do about them?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 23, 2023 10:49:27 GMT -5
Well no..... Far left-intolerance, far right-bigotry. Trouble is that anyone who doesn't agree with Wokeism ......is labelled a Nazi.Convenient that, for silencing other opinions and making sure that yours are the only views which are allowed to be expressed. Dont you think? I don't think we are actually communicating here. this whole "woke" thing.... no one I know uses that word... I only read it or hear it from Conservative journalists and media talking heads. The neo Nazis in my area call themselves neo Nazis and they are against rights/freedoms for blacks, gays, Jews, immigrants (legal or otherwise) and are rather misogynistic. At least their rhetoric is. The reason people don't agree with them -is because they are against rights/freedoms for gays, Jews, immigrants and are misogynistic. Not because they are "anti woke". And the people who don't agree with the neo Nazis in my area - called them Nazis or neoNazis. There are some other groups that tend to align themselves with the local Nazis - there are groups of Nationalist (or White Nationalists) and the white supremicists. And yes we are trying to limit their "voice" in our community and local government - because the community has a significantly larger population of women, black/brown people, immigrants and gays. We don't have a large Jewish population. We all need to live together and limiting the rights of most of the community isn't the way to accomplish that. So, yeah - if the local neo nazi has a complaint about garbage pickup or neighborhood blight or the hours city hall is open have at it. If the local neo nazi has complaints about the local convenience store that has signage in English and Spanish and maybe a more red/green color scheme to the decorations in the store - we've already got laws/codes/legislation that covers signage and whatnot for ALL BUSINESSES. If you don't want to shop at that store - don't. The rest of us are all good with the current set of laws/codes/legistlations that is currently enforced. And don't even think about using violence or intimidation against said store (or the people who own it or visit it). Cause that's getting into criminal activity even if YOU think violence against brown people or "not American" stuff is somehow "legally your right". Maybe the woke/anti woke using crowd is afraid of saying Fascism? or being Fascist? It's worth looking for a definition of Fascism and how to identify Fascism. Cause around here - the Nazis really are Nazis.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 23, 2023 11:10:55 GMT -5
Why can't we just let people change and pee in peace? To this point - most modern bathrooms and gym locker rooms are designed to be a bit more 'private' at least the ones for women that I've been in. Maybe all the gnashing of teeth and anger about this is about MONEY. As in maybe parts of America are still using schools built before the 1980's that have never been updated or remodeled in any way. The local jr college was built in 1975 and had a more "open" kind of gym shower room and locker room for women. There was a large tiled room with shower heads no curtains no stalls. There was a big open room with lockers lining the wall. Even the room with toilets had only one toilet with stall walls - and that was the "handicapped" stall.... Back in the 90's when I was using this locker room - I found it quaint and outdated - the lockerrooms/showers at the new fancy "gyms" where you paid for a "membership" did NOT look like that. There were shower stalls with curtains, there was a changing area with a couple of stalls with curtains and a locker area. There was another area where you could do your hair and makeup. There were plenty of ways to have "privacy" at least for the times when you needed to be naked. Back then I never saw a naked woman (or even a woman in sexy panties and sexy bra) when using a locker room at a place I paid a membership fee. I know the jr. college gym and locker rooms got an update in the 2000's and it was needed everything was 25 years old.... The womens locker room now looks more like the "gym membership" modern locker rooms - so more privacy. Maybe THATS the problem -- the people complaining the most and loudest are thinking that today's kids and adults are using facilities from the 1950's.... maybe all those old facilities have never had an update - because there is no money to do it. Maybe millions of people in America are still literally stuck in the past.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 23, 2023 11:12:13 GMT -5
People should google testicular feminization. They have XY chromosomes, but are resistant to the effects of testosterone, show look female. What should we do about them? Well they are biologically male so by conservative logic to the men's restroom they go. Like that could never end badly for someone. I remember Matthew Shephard quite vividly. He was brutally murdered just because he was gay. But we're going to send trans women and other female presenting people into the men's restroom like it is no big deal?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 23, 2023 11:14:15 GMT -5
Why can't we just let people change and pee in peace? To this point - most modern bathrooms and gym locker rooms are designed to be a bit more 'private' at least the ones for women that I've been in. Maybe all the gnashing of teeth and anger about this is about MONEY. As in maybe parts of America are still using schools built before the 1980's that have never been updated or remodeled in any way. The local jr college was built in 1975 and had a more "open" kind of gym shower room and locker room for women. There was a large tiled room with shower heads no curtains no stalls. There was a big open room with lockers lining the wall. Even the room with toilets had only one toilet with stall walls - and that was the "handicapped" stall.... Back in the 90's when I was using this locker room - I found it quaint and outdated - the lockerrooms/showers at the new fancy "gyms" where you paid for a "membership" did NOT look like that. There were shower stalls with curtains, there was a changing area with a couple of stalls with curtains and a locker area. There was another area where you could do your hair and makeup. There were plenty of ways to have "privacy" at least for the times when you needed to be naked. Back then I never saw a naked woman (or even a woman in sexy panties and sexy bra) when using a locker room at a place I paid a membership fee. I know the jr. college gym and locker rooms got an update in the 2000's and it was needed everything was 25 years old.... The womens locker room now looks more like the "gym membership" modern locker rooms - so more privacy. Maybe THATS the problem -- the people complaining the most and loudest are thinking that today's kids and adults are using facilities from the 1950's.... maybe all those old facilities have never had an update - because there is no money to do it. Maybe millions of people in America are still literally stuck in the past. The showers in my HS locker room were like that. They were in the process of boarding it up when I was going back in the 90s because it was outdated and not exactly safe. It is HIGHLY unlikely a trans or a lesbian student was oogling you it was probably the gym teacher.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 23, 2023 11:34:00 GMT -5
FWIW: The "locker room" scenes on TV shows and in Horror Movies might have looked like old style locker rooms - and usually in the Teen TV shows there always the hint that there are naked kids parading around in the locker room.... and of course in the Horror movie the targeted kid is implied to be naked. And yet, my memories from the awful HS locker room and showers (built in the 1920's) and very open with no privacy - was that there wasn't any time to be naked for long or lounge around - you had 10 minutes to shower and get dressed and run to your next class. The biggest problem was that it was crowded. You were pretty much shoulder to shoulder at the lockers and had to line up for the showers. Mostly because not all the showers worked and only a small area of the lockers were maintained (had working doors so you could put your lock on it). There's no privacy when you've got 30 kids trying to use a 15 by 15 area all at once. Jeez, have school buildings in America NOT been updated/remodeled?? I guess it's cheaper to legislate away a problem rather than figure out how to get money to fix up public buildings. Even if those fix ups would benefit EVERYONE who uses the facility. So sad.
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