FL will become the place where public higher education....

[Tennesseer]

Florida will become the place where public higher education goes to die: education expert

MSNBC host Mehdi Hasan pointed out on Sunday that there's one thing that Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) loves to talk about, and it's "freedom" in his state. But the latest moves are working to restrict academic freedom, freedom of speech, business freedom and others.

The latest piece of legislation would remove many degree programs in public universities blocking the freedom of students who opt to study such subjects.

Jeremy Young, the senior manager of Free Expression and Education at Pen America, told Hasan that the new bill is by far the worst that the Florida legislature has explored thus far, "possibly forever."

"It's not even close to some of the other bills that we've seen in other places," Young explained. Many red states have fought to restrict education that teaches the truth about America's history of slavery and civil rights under the guise of white parents being triggered. "This bill would go beyond recent attempts to restrict classroom teaching and speech in higher education, classrooms and readings. It would restrict instead entire universities. Among other provisions, it would require that general education classes include only material that promotes, 'the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic and traditional historically accurate course work' and ban general education courses based on, 'unproven theoretical or exploratory content.' This is a bill that would really end academic freedom in higher education. Not just certain course areas, but at all times, and all campuses everywhere. It really is a bill that would make Florida the place where public higher education goes to die."

Education is often one of the most significant components for businesses choosing to relocate to states. While the businesses themselves might not focus on it, the workers certainly do. Such was the case in 2018 with Toyota and Mazda, which ignored the concerns of the workforce for tax incentives.

If there isn't a skilled workforce to choose from, businesses don't see the state as a good place to relocate. It's a problem that Oklahoma has faced for several years as the standard of education has been significantly reduced. South Florida is already facing a skilled workforce shortage.

For companies that are looking to relocate their existing workforce, millennials and Generation Z doesn't want to move to states that aren't supportive of their families, CNBC explained. Meanwhile, DeSantis has made it clear he's willing to target employers that oppose his politics, as he did with Disney, one of the state's largest employers.

"It's the same old song, really," Young explained. "It's this idea that any topic in the humanities or interdisciplinary fields that includes jargon or language that is not immediately obvious to the reader without study is somehow a poison pill for Marxism or some kind of extreme ideology. It's really a conspiracy theory that leads to the banning of these topics, regarding race, LGBTQ identity, regarding gender. The most important thing to empathize about this bill and bills like it is that they are using ideas like gender studies, critical race theory, diversity, equity, inclusion as wedge issues in order to really facilitate the takeover of public higher education by one man."

Florida will become the place where public higher education goes to die: education expert

[thyme4change]

I hope Florida becomes a cautionary tale for other purple states.

[djAdvocate]

freedom to die.
freedom to become stupid.
freedom to live in poverty.

USA!

[swamp]

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere? 

[djAdvocate]

'the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic and traditional historically accurate course work'

i am puzzled as to how this edict does NOT include black studies.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere? 

you should certainly point out to him that the standards are slipping in Florida rapidly.

[pulmonarymd]

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere? 

Only if you care about spending your tuition dollars for a quality education. I think employers are going to notice when it is time to recruit workers if the education quality slips.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 27, 2023 11:30:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

'the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic and traditional historically accurate course work'

i am puzzled as to how this edict does NOT include black studies.

Florida Bill Would Allow DeSantis to Ban CRT and Gender Studies From State Schools

[happyhoix]

Feb 27, 2023 11:42:39 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere? 

Only if you care about spending your tuition dollars for a quality education. I think employers are going to notice when it is time to recruit workers if the education quality slips.

Not just that. Businesses already in the state will have more problems recruiting from outside Florida if the new recruits think their kids will have a less than stellar education. They won’t want to be saddled paying out of state tuition to send their kid somewhere that teaches everything, not just the white MAGA agenda.

[busymom]

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere? 

     As a former resident, that's easy.  Insist he go elsewhere.


     I had the best neighbors ever when living there, but the "system" there is toxic.  There is no way I'd send my own kids there.  It's too bad really.  Nice people, but toxic government & "healthcare" system.

[djAdvocate]

This is in part due to Florida’s “Stop WOKE Act,” legislation that went into effect this past summer banning the teaching of critical race theory (CRT) to the state’s K-12 students.
CRT is a college level course.  it is not taught in K-12.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere? 

DD1 just left her professorship at one of the universities there and moved to a different state. Many of her peers were also trying to figure out how to leave the university and state. That is going to leave the universities woefully short-staffed or staffed with unqualified individuals. Is that really a quality education to pursue?    

[Tiny]

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere?  

IDK, is there a good reason "why" your kid is looking at Florida colleges?


Just my opinion: universities and colleges in Florida have pretty good rankings. I'm not sure what that actually "implies" in the light that the public schools in Florida are pretty shitty. So, I'm guessing Florida colleges/universities are very selective about who gets in and are filled with lots of out of state kids and forgein students and the kids of the wealthy Floridians (who were able to send their kids to private schools). Basically wondering how it is that Florida has such good university/college rankings when the State's public schools are so crappy.


Florida is weird - there's a very obvious line between the haves and the have nots. (well, atleast the various places I've visited and where I've looked to buy property.)


I'm not sure my opinion and observation are reasons to NOT go to uni/college in Florida. Part of the experience of higher education is experiencing new things....

If your kid is thinking about going into a teaching profession - Florida is NOT the place to do it.   Teachers are woefully underpaid.  And if the extended family relatives who ARE teachers there (k thru 12) at public and charter schools are any sort of indication they do not go above and beyond while being underpaid.    They only put forth "work effort" for your work day and nothing more.  which kind of makes sense they are at the bottom of the bottom. 
   
That's not what the teachers do where I live - they are paid better (and usually have much better insurance benefits and retirement options) and they mostly go above and beyond the minimum they are expected to do.     Teachers here also have pay issues - they are encouraged to go above and beyond - but are Union.... so doing more than you are contracted to do is a pressure.  They do often get better pay and better benefits to off set this somewhat. 

[Tennesseer]

Feb 27, 2023 13:27:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

This is in part due to Florida’s “Stop WOKE Act,” legislation that went into effect this past summer banning the teaching of critical race theory (CRT) to the state’s K-12 students.
CRT is a college level course.  it is not taught in K-12.

DJ: a couple things.

First: DeSantis has banned Black History in Advanced Placement classes in Florida public high schools. Students may get college/university credits for taking the AP classes. No longer are they able to.

Florida’s Ban on AP African American Studies, Explained

Second: I have run out of free Rolling Stone articles to read and can only post the article title and URL address.

DeSantis Moves to Ban CRT From Florida’s Public Higher Education

[swamp]

Feb 27, 2023 16:06:09 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere?  

IDK, is there a good reason "why" your kid is looking at Florida colleges?


Just my opinion: universities and colleges in Florida have pretty good rankings. I'm not sure what that actually "implies" in the light that the public schools in Florida are pretty shitty. So, I'm guessing Florida colleges/universities are very selective about who gets in and are filled with lots of out of state kids and forgein students and the kids of the wealthy Floridians (who were able to send their kids to private schools). Basically wondering how it is that Florida has such good university/college rankings when the State's public schools are so crappy.


Florida is weird - there's a very obvious line between the haves and the have nots. (well, atleast the various places I've visited and where I've looked to buy property.)


I'm not sure my opinion and observation are reasons to NOT go to uni/college in Florida. Part of the experience of higher education is experiencing new things....

If your kid is thinking about going into a teaching profession - Florida is NOT the place to do it.   Teachers are woefully underpaid.  And if the extended family relatives who ARE teachers there (k thru 12) at public and charter schools are any sort of indication they do not go above and beyond while being underpaid.    They only put forth "work effort" for your work day and nothing more.  which kind of makes sense they are at the bottom of the bottom. 
   
That's not what the teachers do where I live - they are paid better (and usually have much better insurance benefits and retirement options) and they mostly go above and beyond the minimum they are expected to do.     Teachers here also have pay issues - they are encouraged to go above and beyond - but are Union.... so doing more than you are contracted to do is a pressure.  They do often get better pay and better benefits to off set this somewhat. 

Florida because he HATES cold weather and snow, and my sister lives there. 

he’s going for video game design. 

[bean29]

Feb 27, 2023 11:29:46 GMT -5 swamp said:

Shit. DS is a junior and is looking at colleges in FL, including some public ones. 

Do I insist he go elsewhere? 

Yeah, My DD was recently interviewing in Minneapolis.  She did not get the job.  She has applied for another in Minneapolis and 2 I think in Atlanta, and One in Miami.  She and her Boyfriend both work for the same airline.  he recently took a promotion to FL.  She may join him there, she may go to another state where they think they can both work together after the next round of promotions.  I had asked her to try to go to a liberal state.  Georgia is not much better than Florida, but we do have quite a few relatives in the state.

We can hope that states like FL and Mississippi will get shut down by the Federal Government, but we know they have been emboldened by the takeover of the Supreme Court by Religious Authoritarian Extremists.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 27, 2023 18:00:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 27, 2023 13:27:20 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

This is in part due to Florida’s “Stop WOKE Act,” legislation that went into effect this past summer banning the teaching of critical race theory (CRT) to the state’s K-12 students.
CRT is a college level course.  it is not taught in K-12.

DJ: a couple things.

First: DeSantis has banned Black History in Advanced Placement classes in Florida public high schools. Students may get college/university credits for taking the AP classes. No longer are they able to.

Florida’s Ban on AP African American Studies, Explained

Second: I have run out of free Rolling Stone articles to read and can only post the article title and URL address.

DeSantis Moves to Ban CRT From Florida’s Public Higher Education

ah.  AP.  of course.

[busymom]

Feb 27, 2023 18:39:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 27, 2023 16:06:09 GMT -5 Tiny said:

IDK, is there a good reason "why" your kid is looking at Florida colleges?


Just my opinion: universities and colleges in Florida have pretty good rankings. I'm not sure what that actually "implies" in the light that the public schools in Florida are pretty shitty. So, I'm guessing Florida colleges/universities are very selective about who gets in and are filled with lots of out of state kids and forgein students and the kids of the wealthy Floridians (who were able to send their kids to private schools). Basically wondering how it is that Florida has such good university/college rankings when the State's public schools are so crappy.


Florida is weird - there's a very obvious line between the haves and the have nots. (well, atleast the various places I've visited and where I've looked to buy property.)


I'm not sure my opinion and observation are reasons to NOT go to uni/college in Florida. Part of the experience of higher education is experiencing new things....

If your kid is thinking about going into a teaching profession - Florida is NOT the place to do it.   Teachers are woefully underpaid.  And if the extended family relatives who ARE teachers there (k thru 12) at public and charter schools are any sort of indication they do not go above and beyond while being underpaid.    They only put forth "work effort" for your work day and nothing more.  which kind of makes sense they are at the bottom of the bottom. 
   
That's not what the teachers do where I live - they are paid better (and usually have much better insurance benefits and retirement options) and they mostly go above and beyond the minimum they are expected to do.     Teachers here also have pay issues - they are encouraged to go above and beyond - but are Union.... so doing more than you are contracted to do is a pressure.  They do often get better pay and better benefits to off set this somewhat. 

Florida because he HATES cold weather and snow, and my sister lives there. 

he’s going for video game design. 

    LOL!  There are other states that don't have nasty winters.  Are you sure he's not going for the beaches?      BTW, how did he get "that" old?  I still think of your children as kids...

[djAdvocate]

Feb 27, 2023 18:39:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 27, 2023 16:06:09 GMT -5 Tiny said:

IDK, is there a good reason "why" your kid is looking at Florida colleges?


Just my opinion: universities and colleges in Florida have pretty good rankings. I'm not sure what that actually "implies" in the light that the public schools in Florida are pretty shitty. So, I'm guessing Florida colleges/universities are very selective about who gets in and are filled with lots of out of state kids and forgein students and the kids of the wealthy Floridians (who were able to send their kids to private schools). Basically wondering how it is that Florida has such good university/college rankings when the State's public schools are so crappy.


Florida is weird - there's a very obvious line between the haves and the have nots. (well, atleast the various places I've visited and where I've looked to buy property.)


I'm not sure my opinion and observation are reasons to NOT go to uni/college in Florida. Part of the experience of higher education is experiencing new things....

If your kid is thinking about going into a teaching profession - Florida is NOT the place to do it.   Teachers are woefully underpaid.  And if the extended family relatives who ARE teachers there (k thru 12) at public and charter schools are any sort of indication they do not go above and beyond while being underpaid.    They only put forth "work effort" for your work day and nothing more.  which kind of makes sense they are at the bottom of the bottom. 
   
That's not what the teachers do where I live - they are paid better (and usually have much better insurance benefits and retirement options) and they mostly go above and beyond the minimum they are expected to do.     Teachers here also have pay issues - they are encouraged to go above and beyond - but are Union.... so doing more than you are contracted to do is a pressure.  They do often get better pay and better benefits to off set this somewhat. 

Florida because he HATES cold weather and snow, and my sister lives there. 

he’s going for video game design. 

weird.  our sons are similar ages and with similar interests.
he looked into going to a PRIVATE Florida school.
i talked him out of it.

[swamp]

Well crap, New College was one of the places he was looking at. 

[djAdvocate]

Feb 28, 2023 15:36:36 GMT -5 swamp said:

Well crap, New College was one of the places he was looking at. 

Newly Purple Georgia might be a good option.
Athens is a hell of a nice town.
Particularly for music.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Feb 28, 2023 15:36:36 GMT -5 swamp said:

Well crap, New College was one of the places he was looking at. 

DD1 went there and loved it, one of the most liberal colleges in FL. The campus is just beautiful. DiSantis just appointed conservatives to the board.

[tallguy]

Feb 28, 2023 17:15:37 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Feb 28, 2023 15:36:36 GMT -5 swamp said:

Well crap, New College was one of the places he was looking at. 

DD1 went there and loved it, one of the most liberal colleges in FL. The campus is just beautiful. DiSantis just appointed conservatives to the board.

Yes, it is a beautiful place.  I was right next door (at The Ringling) last week before I left town.  New College is on the old Charles Ringling estate adjacent to his brother John's.  

[Opti]

Feb 28, 2023 17:15:37 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Feb 28, 2023 15:36:36 GMT -5 swamp said:

Well crap, New College was one of the places he was looking at. 

DD1 went there and loved it, one of the most liberal colleges in FL. The campus is just beautiful. DiSantis just appointed conservatives to the board.

I think the operative word is was the most liberal. DeSantis seems to have a vested interest in turning it blood red.

[Tennesseer]

[swamp]

Feb 28, 2023 18:39:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

Feb 28, 2023 17:15:37 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

DD1 went there and loved it, one of the most liberal colleges in FL. The campus is just beautiful. DiSantis just appointed conservatives to the board.

I think the operative word is was the most liberal. DeSantis seems to have a vested interest in turning it blood red.

It's an artsy school.  I see this ending badly. 

[pulmonarymd]

That seems to be the plan. Not like they want these "woke" schools indoctrinating our children.

[kadee79]

Swamp, I live down here in SW Ga., just about 70 mi. from Tallahassee.  There is no way on earth I would let my kid or my grandkids attend any higher learning school in Fl. as long as there is a GOP governor & state congress there.
My son wanted to send my grandson to Liberty College...I threw a royal fit & told them all there would be no financial help from me if he went there.  He didn't go there.  He attended a small college in Va. for awhile (in New Port) and then attended another small college in N.C. to finish out his degree.  The reason for the change was his Dad got transferred & he couldn't afford housing in Va., but was able to rent an apt. in N.C.  He is in Charlotte.

There is S.Tx. and So. Ca. where it's warm & no snow.  We rarely have snow here in my area of Ga....only 2 times in the over 30 yrs. I've been here.  We have several really good small colleges in this general area.   I have a niece in Tucson, Az....only snow in the mountains there.   She is a substitute teacher...she likes that due to being able to pick which classes she will teach...something different every day.

If I read the news correctly the other day...a bunch of the kids at New College have been out protesting.  So maybe he should look further in other directions.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that DeSantis' messes don't spread up here into Ga.!

[busymom]

I just saw polling results last night that said Trump has pulled ahead of DeSantis.  Here we go again...  

[kadee79]

Mar 1, 2023 10:22:08 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 28, 2023 18:39:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think the operative word is was the most liberal. DeSantis seems to have a vested interest in turning it blood red.

It's an artsy school.  I see this ending badly. 

Swamp, here is some more news about that particular college.....


www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/emotional-meeting-ends-with-desantis-new-college-of-florida-board-abolishing-diversity-office/ar-AA186dNv?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ec5097d3e2594869ad86644d8d117335&ei=14


I still wouldn't want my kid or grandkid to go there....certainly not as long as DeSantis & his cronies are in charge.