djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,040
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 11, 2022 19:30:50 GMT -5
what about doing what they do in 90% of the nations we call nominally democratic? open the field to anyone who wants to run? it is pretty clear that the parties are out of step with the mainstream voter. but they have a lock on our political system due to the primary system. furthermore, this cumbersome and complex system forces politicians to spend half their time fundraising and campaigning rather than governing. whose interest does that serve? certainly not the voter. it best serves elite interests that are forcing them to raise money. i think our system as it is is hopelessly corrupt. fortunately, the world is replete with examples of how to do it better. it probably won't happen because we have lost control of our democracy. Please cite me an example of a country you think does it well. I will research that system and offer critique. Denmark, New Zealand, Finland, Singapore, and Sweden if you are talking about corruption. there were several points i was making in that post, and there is a tension between some of them. i think corruption is the one that infuriates me the most, but i define that term rather broadly to include lobbyists. if we got rid of the corruption, we could probably keep our arcane and elitist electoral system. it would still be like riding a bonebreaker to work, but it would still get us there. and please don't tell me that they are small countries and therefore not comparable. that is a copout. we are a big country, therefore we have the resources to make it happen. that is how i view it, and that is how every generation up to the boomers viewed it, as well.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2022 22:20:12 GMT -5
Please cite me an example of a country you think does it well. I will research that system and offer critique. Denmark, New Zealand, Finland, Singapore, and Sweden and please don't tell me that they are small countries and therefore not comparable. that is a copout. we are a big country, therefore we have the resources to make it happen. that is how i view it, and that is how every generation up to the boomers viewed it, as well. Wonder if this will post without your edit?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2022 22:46:56 GMT -5
Please cite me an example of a country you think does it well. I will research that system and offer critique. Denmark, New Zealand, Finland, Singapore, and Sweden if you are talking about corruption. there were several points i was making in that post, and there is a tension between some of them. i think corruption is the one that infuriates me the most, but i define that term rather broadly to include lobbyists. if we got rid of the corruption, we could probably keep our arcane and elitist electoral system. it would still be like riding a bonebreaker to work, but it would still get us there. and please don't tell me that they are small countries and therefore not comparable. that is a copout. we are a big country, therefore we have the resources to make it happen. that is how i view it, and that is how every generation up to the boomers viewed it, as well. Vested interests in New Zealand politics are too big to ignore – we need a royal commissionWhen two of the three biggest political parties in parliament are being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office you know you have a problem.
Despite New Zealand recently being declared as the least corrupt country on earth, repeated donations and lobbying scandals would suggest that – like our “100% pure” tourism marketing slogan – this may be something of a fiction, albeit one enthusiastically touted by authorities to prove we don’t have a problem.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2022 23:03:12 GMT -5
Please cite me an example of a country you think does it well. I will research that system and offer critique. Denmark, New Zealand, Finland, Singapore, and Sweden if you are talking about corruption. there were several points i was making in that post, and there is a tension between some of them. i think corruption is the one that infuriates me the most, but i define that term rather broadly to include lobbyists. if we got rid of the corruption, we could probably keep our arcane and elitist electoral system. it would still be like riding a bonebreaker to work, but it would still get us there. and please don't tell me that they are small countries and therefore not comparable. that is a copout. we are a big country, therefore we have the resources to make it happen. that is how i view it, and that is how every generation up to the boomers viewed it, as well. ‘Swedish lobbyists have a culture of transparency’She also noted that as far as comparisons to the US went, the Swedish political structure meant that a lone politician rarely acts outside their party platform.
“The party focus means there is a different avenue for lobbying,” Hedlund said.
So structure matters.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2022 23:16:13 GMT -5
Please cite me an example of a country you think does it well. I will research that system and offer critique. Denmark, New Zealand, Finland, Singapore, and Sweden if you are talking about corruption. there were several points i was making in that post, and there is a tension between some of them. i think corruption is the one that infuriates me the most, but i define that term rather broadly to include lobbyists. if we got rid of the corruption, we could probably keep our arcane and elitist electoral system. it would still be like riding a bonebreaker to work, but it would still get us there. and please don't tell me that they are small countries and therefore not comparable. that is a copout. we are a big country, therefore we have the resources to make it happen. that is how i view it, and that is how every generation up to the boomers viewed it, as well. All five of the countries on your list have parliamentary unitary type governments. I think that is significant.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,040
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 11, 2022 23:16:51 GMT -5
i didn't really have time to look into it, bills. thanks for doing so.
so, i take it that you are not buying my assertion that the US is more corrupt?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,040
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 11, 2022 23:17:47 GMT -5
Denmark, New Zealand, Finland, Singapore, and Sweden if you are talking about corruption. there were several points i was making in that post, and there is a tension between some of them. i think corruption is the one that infuriates me the most, but i define that term rather broadly to include lobbyists. if we got rid of the corruption, we could probably keep our arcane and elitist electoral system. it would still be like riding a bonebreaker to work, but it would still get us there. and please don't tell me that they are small countries and therefore not comparable. that is a copout. we are a big country, therefore we have the resources to make it happen. that is how i view it, and that is how every generation up to the boomers viewed it, as well. All five of the countries on your list have parliamentary unitary type governments. I think that is significant. i agree.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 11, 2022 23:59:43 GMT -5
All five of the countries on your list have parliamentary unitary type governments. I think that is significant. i agree. And you think we could get there with our current systems unaltered?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,040
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 12, 2022 0:04:02 GMT -5
And you think we could get there with our current systems unaltered? probably not. listen, bills. this is a great convo, but i had a 10.5 hour workday today that included 3 hours of driving. i really need to hit the hay. i am spent. talk to you tomorrow.
|
|